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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
K, so I'd like to know more about DH troops, how to use them and what a basic starter list should look like.

A few questions first:

-If an inquistor's retinue is killed off, are the benefits of stat bonuses lost that they confer?
-What is the point of Heavy Support Grey Knights? Other than fitting in more GK into your list.
-Inquisitor or Grand Master? Personally I like Inquisitor models more, but I can always just paint one up for display if they arn't any good.
-I like daemonhosts, but an all GK army is too good to pass up.
-Orbital blasts: Should I use them?

I know my gaming friends play Tau, Orks, and I'm not sure what else if that affects choices in any way.

I'd like to make an all comers list, not necessarily overly competitive, but still not something that is going to lose every fight.

Anyway, now to listen to all of your wonderful words of wisdom;Y
 

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Nightlord
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K, so I'd like to know more about DH troops, how to use them and what a basic starter list should look like.
Welcome, you find tons of help here on LO.


-If an inquistor's retinue is killed off, are the benefits of stat bonuses lost that they confer?
The stat bonuses stay.
-What is the point of Heavy Support Grey Knights? Other than fitting in more GK into your list.
There isn't much point to them in my opinion. They are very expensive for what they can actually do. 4 Psycannon squads don't do enough shots for their hefty point cost, and incinerators in a Landraider can be fun, but is often much to expensive for the 4 flame templates. You might find that you like them, but more often than not the standard storm bolter is the way to go. Search on the forum, it has already been discussed before.
-Inquisitor or Grand Master? Personally I like Inquisitor models more, but I can always just paint one up for display if they arn't any good.
Both are good, and it really depends on your style of play. If you like inquisitors there is no reason not to paint one up. Inquisitor squads can lay down some pretty impressive fire.
-I like daemonhosts, but an all GK army is too good to pass up.
I like them in theory and fluff, but in practice I have found them too random and unreliable. I would rather have GKs over DHosts in a daemaonhunters army, but in an inducted IG army with an inquitor HQ they could be fluffy and fun.
-Orbital blasts: Should I use them?
Nah, they often aren't worth it. The other heavy support choices are so necessary they should almost always be taken.

Overall you should do fine against Tau or Orks depending on what types of lists they have. You can get into close combat and mop up the tau and dance away form the orks with your storm bolters to whittle them down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What kind of equipment should I use on my Inquisitor?

I'm kind of confuzled over all the options available...;?
 

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Archmagos
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-If an inquistor's retinue is killed off, are the benefits of stat bonuses lost that they confer?
I don't think so.

-What is the point of Heavy Support Grey Knights? Other than fitting in more GK into your list.
The fact that they can have more special weapons. They can also be fielded as only a Justicar + 2 GK's.
I personally wouldn't use either though.

-Inquisitor or Grand Master? Personally I like Inquisitor models more, but I can always just paint one up for display if they arn't any good.
Inquisitors usually look more impressive, can have more character, and have a slightly larger access to the armory than Grand Masters do. Combined with a shooty retinue, they can put out decent firepower. They're less effective at assault though. Elite Inquisitors also make good support units, such as being a cheap way to unlock Assassins, provide extra firepower with a psycannon, or carry teleport homers around.
Grand Masters obviously have better stats than Inquisitors, and come with termie armor, a storm bolter, and a Nemesis weapon. They're best when given a retinue and used for assault. If you want a shooty squad, take a Bro. Captain or Inquisitor instead, since GM's are more expensive and don't particularly contribute much more to shooting than the others do.


-I like daemonhosts, but an all GK army is too good to pass up.
Daemonhosts are unpredictable, and are best used for fluff and friendly games.

-Orbital blasts: Should I use them?
They can be useful sometimes. Basically they're used to deter the opponent from the location of the Strike.
In most cases though, you're better off spending the points elsewhere.

Some things that would be good for a starter list to include:
-GK Dreadnoughts, usually with the TLLC/ML combo, unless you have inducted/allied troops or something else that adequately covers your AT needs.
-PAGK squads - with larger squad sizes.
-HQ: Brother Captain or Inquisitor Lord (just don't tool him up too much). Grand Masters are alright, but they're better for 2k pts + games, which is a bit large for someone just starting pure DH.

Other useful things:
-GKT's - but don't go overboard with them; basic GK's already cost enough points.
-IST's - they can be used to add more numbers or provide fire support.
'

Edit:
What kind of equipment should I use on my Inquisitor?



I'm kind of confuzled over all the options available...
What type of Inquisitor are you taking? The Lord or the elite choice?
Either way, a psycannon is usually a good pick.
I try to avoid taking close combat equipment though, since Inquisitors are best used for shooting, not assault.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
K so this is what I'm thinking:

HQ:

Inquisitor Lord
2 Acolytes
1 Familiar
1 Sage
1 Warrior

WS - 5
BS - 5
S - 3
T - 3
W - 3+2
I - 5
A - 3
Ld - 10
Sv - 3+

Pts - 87

Troops

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

Total:
1187 pts

As a start of course.

Or I could replace one PAGK squad with a termie squad of 5 for 245 pts instead making the total 1157 instead...


IDK, I've never made a GK army before, what do you guys think?

edit: yeah, that's 9 GK + 1 Justicar for a total of 10 if you were wondering why the #s might look wonky...
 

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-If an inquistor's retinue is killed off, are the benefits of stat bonuses lost that they confer?
All bonuses are lost, though the Inquisitor becomes an I.C. so can run along to another unit

-What is the point of Heavy Support Grey Knights? Other than fitting in more GK into your list.
Just to get more weapon options really, though there isnt any point, atm their just too damn expensive --- though taking 4x Psycannons aint too bad against certain armies (ie Warlock heavy Eldar ect)

-Inquisitor or Grand Master? Personally I like Inquisitor models more, but I can always just paint one up for display if they arn't any good.
Entirly dependant on you, personally I would never use a Grandmaster at anything 2000points or less, Ill just use a Brother Captain -- Inquisitor Lords are ok, but for 25 points less you pretty much get something for the exact same purpse except as an elite choice -- if you want assassins / Orbital Strikes in your army then you'll need one of these bad boys in there

-I like daemonhosts, but an all GK army is too good to pass up.
Daemonhosts are the best pskers in the game (seriously they are) but personally I never use them because I dont believe you can get enough to make them worth while on the battle field (except at smaller point games of course)

-Orbital blasts: Should I use them?

Again up to you, some people use them as last minute point fillers, some people dont --- I only ever use the Lance Strike on Take and Hold type missions (its just funny watching the opponent take that all important objective just to get pummeld to bits the very next turn)

I know my gaming friends play Tau, Orks, and I'm not sure what else if that affects choices in any way.
Lucky you, they both play a Daemonhunters worst nightmare lol ---- Tau can easily out shoot and out manovour us where as Orks will out class us combat FAR to easily -- you need a fair amount of luck to go against these armies

I'd like to make an all comers list, not necessarily overly competitive, but still not something that is going to lose every fight.

Take alook at some the army lists in here so far -- Ican recommend mine (lol) to look at -- Ive gone for an alrounder -- Daemonhunter elements are anti tank and With Hunter elements are Anti-infantry -- it works pretty well


Oh and dont worry about making a Daemonhunter list thats over competative -- your now playing one of the most under-powered armies in the game ;-)


Just seen the army list, so lets have a look at that shall we?


HQ:

Inquisitor Lord
2 Acolytes
1 Familiar
1 Sage
1 Warrior
Hmmmm, Theres an optimal set up for this guy, and this isnt it I would personally go for something like this::

=I= Lord with Psycannon and Carapice Armour
3 Gun Servitors (2 with Heavy Bolters, 1 with Plasma Cannon)
2 Sages (For that infamous Twin-linked Plasma Cannon
1 Mystic (to kill deepstrikers)
3 Acolytes (With carapice armour --- though these are purly optional)

This way you get an average save of 4+ almost all of the time and you can out shoot most other infantry units of similar points




Troops

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

10 GK + Justicar
275 pts

Total:
1187 pts
Remove all but 2 of these troop choices and make them fast attack instead --- you dont have too deepstrike them, but you are allowed to deploy them as fast attack (so last in your list) which is invaluable to us

As a start of course.

Or I could replace one PAGK squad with a termie squad of 5 for 245 pts instead making the total 1157 instead...


IDK, I've never made a GK army before, what do you guys think?

edit: yeah, that's 9 GK + 1 Justicar for a total of 10 if you were wondering why the #s might look wonky...
the largest problem you've got is no anti-tank, get a couple of hellfire Dreadnoughts in there (the only true anti-tank we can get) or some more expensive Land Raiders -- though for this you'll need a Brother-Captain HQ choice

A hellfire Dreadnought is basiically this::

GK Dreadnought
-Twinlinked Lascannons, Missle Launcher
-Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour



Your on the way to make a Daemonhunter list, only one more unit I would recommend for this list -- a Callidus Assassin -- she is the bees knees for our list ;-)
 

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-What is the point of Heavy Support Grey Knights? Other than fitting in more GK into your list.
I'm going to go against the conventional wisdom and say that they are really not that bad. If you want to maximize psycannons in your list, they offer the second cheapest unit to do it (in cost per psycannon, that is). Beholds teh math! I've included most of the popular choices here. The first number is the cost/psycannon:

50 - Inquisitor w/ psycannon
70 - Inquisitor w/ psycannon, TDA
68 - Purgation Squad (4+1 members, 4 psycannons)
72 - Purgation Squad (3+1 members, 3 psycannons)
80 - Purgation Squad (2+1 members, 2 psycannons)
100 - "Mini-Purgation" troop choice (4+1 members, 2 psycannons)
113 - "Mini-Purgation" troop choice (5+1 members, 2 psycannons)
104 - Terminators (2+1 members, 2 psycannons)
150 - Terminators (4+1 members, 2 psycannons)

So you can see that the absolute cheapest way to fit psycannons into a list is Inquisitors. Of course, those take up an elite slot for each psycannon, so that can be prohibitive, particularly if you want things like assassins. As you can see, the next most efficient way to get psycannons is a purgation squad. It also offers a dedicated static firebase squad that makes almost full use of its members. You've still got the Justicar not doing much, but it's better than having half of the cost of the squad doing nothing (Justicar plus two vanilla members of a mini-purgation squad = 100 points of the total 200 point squad).

Well, there's my two cents, anyways. I've had good success with a 4-psycannon purgation squad against my friend's 'nids. They pretty much choose a brood each turn to disintegrate ;).

-H
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wow...yeah...went bit crazy with the copy paste now that I re-see what I put there...I thought the point count was a tad high

Anyway only 2 groups of 10 PAGK. Don't want to spend that much money right of the bat only to realise I don't like the army.

1 =][= w/ retinue (TBD)

2 x 10 PAGK

that brings me to about 650 pts. lol...sorry if I caused too much confusion...
 

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If I remember correctly, you were looking between starting Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters. Here's something that I can suggest to you:

Alone with buying 2 units of 10 Grey Knights, I would suggest picking up 2 units of 10 Stormtroopers (a.k.a. Imperial Guard Kasrkin). Both DH and WH incorporate Stormtroopers as a Troop choice, so you can then buy a Cannoness model and you've got yourself a WH start (1 HQ + 2 Troop choices). Then, you're also free to switch between the 2 armies... though admittedly Sisters of Battle squads seem to be a little better than ISTs.

I'm starting to see the importance of the Stormtroopers in DH lists. They can provide some meltaguns to help out with anti-tank problem (though they are far from the solution), or they can bring some plasma guns to help take out high-armor troops. Not to mention they can hitch a ride in a rhino or chimera.

By doing this, you could formulate a list like this:

HQ:

Inquisitor Lord w/ Psycannon
-2 x Sages
-2 x Heavy Bolter Servitors
-Mystic
151

TROOPS:


Inquisitorial Stormtroopers x 10
- 2 x Plasmaguns OR Meltaguns
120

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers x 10
- 2 x Plasmaguns OR Meltaguns
120

FAST ATTACK:


FAGK x 8
225

FAGK x 8
225

HEAVY SUPPORT:


Dread
-TLLC, ML
-Armor, Smoke
148

That leaves you with 11 points to spare at your discretion. I think it's a good start to a DH force, and you can add in some Witch Hunter units by switching out some of the other units.

-Spaar
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That sounds good.

Thanks for the suggestion!
 

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Archmagos
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HQ:

Inquisitor Lord w/ Psycannon
-2 x Sages
-2 x Heavy Bolter Servitors
-Mystic
151

TROOPS:

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers x 10
- 2 x Plasmaguns OR Meltaguns
120

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers x 10
- 2 x Plasmaguns OR Meltaguns
120

FAST ATTACK:

FAGK x 8
225

FAGK x 8
225

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Dread
-TLLC, ML
-Armor, Smoke
148

That leaves you with 11 points to spare at your discretion. I think it's a good start to a DH force, and you can add in some Witch Hunter units by switching out some of the other units.

-Spaar
Actually the Lord would have to swapped for a Brother Captain/Grand Master (I say a BC)
GK Dreads (+ Land Raiders and Crusaders also) require a Hero before they can be fielded.

Other than that, I agree that it would be a good start.
 
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Doh, good point, I always forget about that. Although, it's mainly just the dreads & crusader that are inaccessible. The =][= can take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport, which is actually not a bad idea because you can still get some dreads in the list with the sacrifice of numbers.

I guess you could invest in a GK Terminator to fill that gap. Or you could drop the Dread for something else. Personally though, I prefer getting a BC as my HQ instead of the Inquisitor Lord. If you do that, then you can use the Inquisitor Lord model as an Elite Inquisitor, though the retinue will have to be modified to fit the needed points for the Brother-Captain. Here's what I would suggest:

HQ:

Brother-Captain
61

ELITE:

Inquisitor w/ Psycannon
-2 x Sage
-Heavy Bolter Servitor
-Mystic
101

TROOPS:


Inquisitorial Stormtroopers x 10
- 2 x Plasmaguns OR Meltaguns
120

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers x 10
- 2 x Plasmaguns OR Meltaguns
120

FAST ATTACK:


FAGK x 8
225

FAGK x 8
225

HEAVY SUPPORT:


Dread
-TLLC, ML
-Armor, Smoke
148

TOTAL = 1000 on the dot!!!!

Guess I found use for those extra 11 points after all. Your HQ should be kept near the Grey Knights, or even Deep strike him in with them.

-Spaar
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
K, sounds good.

Thanks for letting me know...would have been kinda embarassing showing up to first game:

What do you mean I can't use the Dread?!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
K, so the BC should just be fielded as is, no upgrades? Should I give him a psycannon as well? Playing WElves teaches you that redundancy can be a good thing if you want a job done.0:

BC has termie armour so no need to buy that upgrade...

What other choices are there?:?
 

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K, so the BC should just be fielded as is, no upgrades? Should I give him a psycannon as well?
If you can find the points for a psycannon, you should definitely do so! I basically stuck it on the Elite Inquisitor because with his retinue, he's shooting it at a higher BS than the Brother-Captain would, and he gets a re-roll on one of the rolls to hit.


BC has termie armour so no need to buy that upgrade...

What other choices are there?:?
Do you mean for wargear? Well, the most valuable upgrades are a psycannon and Icon of the Just. I couldn't find the points to fit either of those in though. I guess you could drop the Inquisitor & his retinue all together and use those points, but I wouldn't advise that because your troop count goes down.

-Spaar
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
K, I'll keep that in mind and try tweaking it and if I find a way I'll post it to see what you think. I was just asking to see wether or not to buy the GKT w/ psycannon model in case.
 

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What do you mean I can't use the Dread?!
It states on the heavy support page that Grey Knight Land Raiders, Crusaders and Dreadnought cannot be taken unless a Grey Knight Hero is included in the force, similar to requiring an Inquisitor for Assassins or Daemonhosts.

Just make sure you've got your Hero, and you're all set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It states on the heavy support page that Grey Knight Land Raiders, Crusaders and Dreadnought cannot be taken unless a Grey Knight Hero is included in the force, similar to requiring an Inquisitor for Assassins or Daemonhosts.

Just make sure you've got your Hero, and you're all set.

I think you misunderstood what I said.

I thanked him for pointing that out since it would be embarrasing to show up to my first WH40K game trying to field a dread when I can't. It was a theoretical situation of what I might say in that instance.:party:
 
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