[koth31]

First of all, id like to say hi to everyone in libraium online.

I have had my IG army for about 1 year now, and i find myself losing horribly every time I play. So i have taken some time to sit back, learn strategy and plan to build on my army. I currently have about $200 and im aiming for a 1500-2000pt army. Some units that i already have are...

1 Battle tank, 1 chimera, 1 armageddon sentinel
2 JO, 1 SO
3 GL, 1 Flamer, 1 Melta
2 LC, 1 ML
1 company standard, 1 medic, 1 master vox, 4 vox
32 Guardsmen

I am trying to make a tactical army(very..?fluffy?). My main opponent is an eldar player who fields 1-2 special char, an avatar, AND a WRAITHLORD

my Doctrines so far:
Light Infantry (for sure)
Sharpshooters (i like it)
cameleoline..? (make up for 5+)
Iron Disc..? (leadership)
....??? (vetrans/ratlings[for nasties])

Sorry if this was a lot of reading..but i would like advice on...
1. tactics
2. possible buys (within my price range)
3. other doctrines/ army ideas

THANKS A LOT!

 

[cadre_of_storms]

first off you need more guardsman at least two full platoons with no upgrades or weapons, that ten full squads and at close range thats 200 lasgun shots. Tanks are good however a heavy weapons team is cheaper and gets you even more men.
If you buy 100 hundred conscripts as well who cares if they are only BS2 with a hundred lasguns a turn your going to kill something,
other people may have different ideas but thats just mine

 

[Triumph Of Man]

First of all, id like to say hi to everyone in libraium online.

I have had my IG army for about 1 year now, and i find myself losing horribly every time I play. So i have taken some time to sit back, learn strategy and plan to build on my army. I currently have about $200 and im aiming for a 1500-2000pt army. Some units that i already have are...

1 Battle tank, 1 chimera, 1 armageddon sentinel
2 JO, 1 SO
3 GL, 1 Flamer, 1 Melta
2 LC, 1 ML
1 company standard, 1 medic, 1 master vox, 4 vox
32 Guardsmen

I am trying to make a tactical army(very..?fluffy?). My main opponent is an eldar player who fields 1-2 special char, an avatar, AND a WRAITHLORD

my Doctrines so far:
Light Infantry (for sure)
Sharpshooters (i like it)
cameleoline..? (make up for 5+)
Iron Disc..? (leadership)
....??? (vetrans/ratlings[for nasties])

Sorry if this was a lot of reading..but i would like advice on...
1. tactics
2. possible buys (within my price range)
3. other doctrines/ army ideas

THANKS A LOT!

What kind of army do you want to play, a defensive Dig in and shoot army or an offensive Mobile army? This wil be a deciding factor on your army composition.

1-2 Special characters, which ones? Pheonix lords = pathetic. Overpriced for what they can do plus the fact that guardsmen can, have and will beat the crap out of them in close combat. Also their lack of invulnerables means a Lascannon or a Rocket launcher means a problem, not to mention ordonance.

Wraithlord? You should be rejoicing. IMO wraithlords really just shoot eldar in the foot. They aren't exactly difficult to take down in the shooting phase for the guard. Eldar are about mobility and pixie tricks and they generally need to capitalise on that to beat us. Wraithlords are pathetic, watch your opponents one scream and hide when you break out the lascannons.

Ok, doctrines. You've combined two doctrines that have to be applied to the majority of the army to work and cost a medium amount of points, you need to pick either cameoline or light infantry or else otherwise your squads will become too expensive. Rule no one in the Guard: try and keep it cheap. personnally as long time cameoline user I suggest you take it over light infantry. The large amount of 3+ cover saves you can hook with it is a real beauty, not to mention headache for your opponent. Whereas, infiltration, better difficult terrain movment, whoopee do. If you want some infitrators, just get your hands on lots of veterens who have a better BS and ability to take more special weapons to make the most of infiltration.

Close Order Drill I reccomend as a madatory pick along with Iron Discipline if you are using doctrines, this is free and is highly beneficial.

Never underestimate the benefit of AP2 over AP3, it is quite a big gulf. I suggest you start buying up on plasmaguns and lascannons.

 

[Xethemez]

Hi Koth, I am also cursed with an Eldar friend. He fields a Biel Tan army with 3 Wraithlords, an Avatar, 2 4-man squads of Reapers + exarchs with a fast shot missile launchers, and 3 Vyper Jetbikes with Shuriken Cannon and Scatterlaser combo. Oh and 3 squads of striking scorpians with infilitrate.
But it can be beaten...

First of all you need to decide whether or not you want to go with the classic infantry line. Usualy, 2-3 platoons backed up by some Hardened Veterans will do horrendous amounts of damage to anything, and I have had a lot of success from this tactic. but after a couple of years playing guard I grew tired of my army being a 1 trick pony and switched to a mobile, grenadiers force. You need to decide what army you want. The tried and true strategy is having line infantry.

You also need to have clear cut roles for your units at the moment you have a few special weapons here, a few heavy weapons there... You need MORE! Go out and order yourself a lot of Plasmaguns. They are by far the most effective special weapon for line infantry, and they work well with Lascannons. You also need heavy Bolters. But I prefer to keep these in support squads, put the Lascannons in the infantry squads where they have redundancy.

Also, a few tanks would go a long way. My personal favorite combo is 2x Leman Russ with 3 Heavy Bolters each and a Hellhound. But you need to decide this for your own army.

Also, I don't agree with your choice of doctrines.
Light infantry is only useful for the sniper rifle - guardsmen aren't resiliant enough for infiltrate, and not mobile enough for the difficult terrain bonus, and if you put a sniper rifle in that squad it means it will want to fire at conflicting targets to the SW. If you want sniper rifles that bad, get SW squads or ratlings. They both cost a single doctine point.

Cameleoline is something that shouldn't be taken outside a Grenadier/tank army. If you use Cameleoline - all guardsmen must take the ability. This is best kept for armies that only have a handful of support squads, as you will never get the entirity of even a fair sized infantry force inside terrain.


I advise you read up on some tactica, decide a theme for your army and try and write up an army list we can comment on - as your question is a bit too generalised for me to answer properly.

 

[Y2K]

Hello, and welcome to Libarium Online,

3)What I would suggest (for doctrines), sharpshooters and close order drill are usually recommended. Sharpshooters, obviously increases your chances of hitting and therefore a good idea would be applying the doctrine to your heavy weapons.

1) Ratlings (if you decide to take them) I personally find useful against the Avatar of Eldar, because, to hit is easy (2+) and wounding on a 4 would mean the sniper effectively has a Strength of 6, so if you had 10 ratlings a good portion of the shots would hit and wound, and the Avatar having a crappy (however invulnerable) armour save will fail a lot of them.

With the wraithlord, just get your guardsmen outta there before it gets into Close combat, because, the men are too weak to inflict any damage on the beast in cloise combat. The lascannons and missile launchers will definately take it down. The chances of hitting is reasonable and wounding is quite high, and being AP 3/2 would make sure it doesn' tget a Sv.

I am also assuming that your friend has a Farseer in his/her army because they happen to be quite the popular choice (and for good reason too!), if you have a lascannon shot to spare, use that on the farseer, because that oughtta be a piece of cake, you hit, you wound, and *SPLAT* farseer is gone.

2) I would suggest getting a demolisher or hellhound on the smaller boards, (against Eldar the hellhound would be the better choice, against Space Marines the demolisher) and the basilisk which is pretty much an allrounder but (in my opinion) quite useless on smaller boards because of it's weak armour it needs to be placed behind cover. Also I would take the suggestions of the other users (take more guardsmen) I would also suggest taking either Storm Troopers and/or Veterans.

I hope this post has been useful, again, welcome to Libarium Online!

Cheers, Rob

PS. Sorry about the numerical order lol, I just happened to answer the third question first.

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Cameleoline is something that shouldn't be taken outside a Grenadier/tank army. If you use Cameleoline - all guardsmen must take the ability. This is best kept for armies that only have a handful of support squads, as you will never get the entirity of even a fair sized infantry force inside terrain.

But that's the fact, you don't need the entire infantry force in cover. You only need the units that will be dealing the heaviest punch. The others are expendable as they should be in a Guard force. Then your oppoenent faces the awful dilemma of shooting at whats probably in a 3+ cover save, or an unshielded target that really isn't doing much damamge to him and you couldn't give a damn about. You should be hoping he starts shooting at the sacrificial unit, it takes even more pressure off your good guys which he has to deal with later after you've crippled his firepower.

But anyway, don't forget if they draw LOS over a piece of terrain, you can claim a save so in many cases I have found my self with 80 something men laughing because they're all sitting in "cover".

 

[Hermann Morr]

You have a very basic army here: so i assume you play around 1.000 points.
Avatar + wraith+ 2 specials is very expensive for a 1.000 points, he can't have many points left for troops. Both Avatar and Wraithlord are so slow and short ranged, you can shoot them as they approach, then run away before being charged. Remember that any s6 weapon will instant-kill any eldar character, so the chimera and the sentinel, with multilasers, can get the role of character hunters. The leman battlecannon can take out the Wraith at a distance , and your troops will shoot at eldar troops. Against the avatar just run away or buy 8-10 ratlings. The most important thing in guards tactic is fire allocation: you must know by the start who will fire at who.

 

[Xethemez]

But that's the fact, you don't need the entire infantry force in cover. You only need the units that will be dealing the heaviest punch. The others are expendable as they should be in a Guard force.

Triumph, Cameleoline is mandatory for ALL guard infantry units, which is why I commented that this is a good ability in armies that field Grenadiers who can't take it, rather than Infantry Platoons.

Although I totaly agree with the principle of what you are saying, 10pts per squad is too much to pay on the men that are going to spend their time outside cover.

 

[koth31]

thanks for the advice, i am trying to run a mobile guard army that is a lot of fun to play. I wrote out a lot of their history a little while ago. they are the 31st steel ghosts, urban veterans who use cover and can move quickly across the board. so for doctrines im thinking...
1. Sharpshooters
2. Iron Disc.
3. Veterans
4. ?ratlings?
5. ?cameleoline?
(i need help on the last 2. i really like the idea of infiltrating a lot of my army with light infintry, but if its as bad as you guys say it is...)

im thinkin about buying...
a) 1 leman russ battle tank(3 HBs, shoutout to whoever suggested that)
b) 2 more boxes of guardsmen(40)
c) 2 heavy weapon boxes(6 HW) maybe 2 LC, 1 ML, 3 HB?
d) LOTS of plasma guns

how much does one plasma gun cost? $-wise, not in-game.
keep the helpful advice comin, thanks a lot :yes:

 

[Cecil]

In my opinion, (sorry, im not sure if anyone else stated this, too many long posts.) But in a Guard army, numbers are your friends. As Xethemez said, you want at least 2 full platoons. If your going mobile, may i suggest hellhounds and more sentinals.I love sentinals, I havent got the funds to buy too many, but i want 6. Hellhounds well... just rain hell on certain types of infintry. It might work well against eldar by piercing some of there more heavely armoured troops, and ignore some cover saves that warlock conjure. As Triumph Of Man said... Wraith Lords are pretty easy for Guard. But remember, the golden rule... NUMBERS. And your plan outline seems pretty good, I love plasma, some dont, I do. LR's are awsome all round tanks. And the heavys are mandatory. Dont build with the missles, take what you want, it is so easy to convert your men to hold those missles like Panzershreks, so for each box you get 3 missles and whatever you build.

Hope I was of help without rewrighting what someone els said.

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Triumph, Cameleoline is mandatory for ALL guard infantry units, which is why I commented that this is a good ability in armies that field Grenadiers who can't take it, rather than Infantry Platoons.

No kidding that it's madatory. But that doesn't matter. If you're constructing a take all comers list, you want each infantry unit to be as safe as the next as in some games the Lascannons will bring it home for you, in others it will be the Heavy Bolters doing the majority of the damage.

I think 10 pts is a decent price to pay for what usually becomes a 3+ invulnerable in the shooting phase. It does cost points, but in an 1500 pts army of 80 something men I pay only 100 points. That would only get me another infantry squad with a lascannon and plasmagun, and I'm quite happy to trade that in for the ability to make the rest of my army as tough as old boots in the shooting phase.

 

[koth31]

numbers numbers numbers...got it. once i buy my guys ill have 72+ guardsmen, enough for 2 platoons with some left over to convert to vets. anyone have some good converting tips to save me money?

p.s. give me some props or whatever they're called on this site please. being called a junior member makes me feel silly

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Props? Maybe you mean Reputation points. You only get those for posts that people like, so generally informative ones with good grammar will get you rep.

But Rep won't change your title. Your number of posts does that. I think about 50 Changes you to a member and 250 changes you to a senior member. To get a custom title you need to at least become an Enhanced member.

 

[koth31]

Props? Maybe you mean Reputation points. You only get those for posts that people like, so generally informative ones with good grammar will get you rep.

But Rep won't change your title. Your number of posts does that. I think about 50 Changes you to a member and 250 changes you to a senior member. To get a custom title you need to at least become an Enhanced member.

Thanx for clarifying that for me. back to topic...

Since i have no objections, i guess my Doctrines are..
1. Sharpshooters
2. Iron Disc.
3. Veterans
4. Cameleoline
5. Ratlings

Im thinkin about takin a Bassy instead of the battle tank for purchasing, ive been reading a lot of praise about indirect fire. and it makes sense agaisnt the armies i will be playing (eldar, tau, necrons, catachans)

for main tactics of my army im thinking...
Veterans and ratlings infiltrate to cover to take out lead/ troublesome units. Ratlings shoot at nasties(rather use my HW for that darn defensive ability on the falcon), S8 vs. T8 is 4+ anyway. Hide bassy and use THE BIG GUN:w00t: to blow up hidden/far away units. The battle tank can just smash the infantry units to dust. Using my guardsmen and to shoot at whatever needs blowing up, falcon mainly(kills my tank everytime i play him)

Sorry im writing so much, hows that sound for overall strategy? advice on all subjects is welcome...

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Yep, looks ok for a general plan.

 

[koth31]

thanks guys, now time to finally bring home my codex from the gaming shop, throw away my money, and post an army list for you guys to tear apart within the month (Y):yes:

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Hang on, what the hell? Do you mean you've been playing with IG for a year without a codex, even a .pdf version? :O

 

[koth31]

Hang on, what the hell? Do you mean you've been playing with IG for a year without a codex, even a .pdf version? :O

hahahahahha, oh no. i just keep my stuff at the shop where we play. less carying, but it turns out....no more eldar, i will now be playing BLOOD ANGELS .courtesy of my friends self doubt.

 

[kidsyndrome]

hahahahahha, oh no. i just keep my stuff at the shop where we play. less carying, but it turns out....no more eldar, i will now be playing BLOOD ANGELS .courtesy of my friends self doubt.

I would suggest picking up some body bags for your guardsmen.....

 

[Cecil]

Blood angels are a problem... Bring plasma, missles, lascannons and tanks. Spred your guys out thin so he cant consolidate from squad to squad. By doing so you get more shots... and with more shots you kill more BA.