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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I dont know about the rest of you but the thing that pisses me off the most about the DH codex is that all of it is made to beat one opponent wich we rarely even play against. I mean the Ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights have one purpose and that is the eradication of Chaos in the Imperium.

The reality is that at best 10%? 20%? of the games you are going to play are against chaos wich makes no sense, the Grey Knights are way too precious to be wasted fighting non-Daemonic forces. On top of that half or more of the wargear/weapons Daemonhunter forces have access too is made to fight chaos or daemons specifically.

So i was thinking why not have a special rule that lets you select some units of your opponents army and promote them to "daemon" and/or "chaos" status. You could possibly receive bonus victory points in order to kill the targets you choose to upgrade but that again is optional really, all thats really important is a way to justify the use of Grey Knights/Daemonhunters against a non-chaos army.

The cool thing is we could actually have armies that use the amazing wargear made for just the Ordo Malleus without it being completely useless 90% of the time.

The offset would be that the units selected for the "upgrades" would probably receive small ulpgrades, a 5+ invul save and/or + 1 to one of their stats in order to balance the rule.

Seems like a good idea for the codex revision in a few years.

What do you all think?
 

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Well. They do have the optional rules at the back so that when fighting an opponent, one of them is possessed by a Greater Daemon.

I don't think your idea is overpowered, but the trick would be to convince people that they actually wanted the upgrades.
 

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Very few people, even for a slight stat or save boost, would want to have one or more of their units count as Daemons. Why? Because then they'll be fighting Grey Knights with the Daemonic unit.

I went to the trouble of converting and painting a generic Greater Daemon that I lug around with my DH force, just in case someone wants to use the adversary rules. At least three quarters of my opponents refuse outright, based on the idea that they'd basically be adding a unit that I can kill easier than everything else they have.

On top of that half or more of the wargear/weapons Daemonhunter forces have access too is made to fight chaos or daemons specifically.
More like 4 or 5 items in the (rather extensive) wargear list, most of the psyker powers, and a couple of the vehicle upgrades. Things like psycannons and such work wonderfully against non-Daemons as well, so they can't count as *only* anti-Daemon. But that's just semantics :shifty:
 

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Loranis said:
I dont know about the rest of you but the thing that pisses me off the most about the DH codex is that all of it is made to beat one opponent wich we rarely even play against. I mean the Ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights have one purpose and that is the eradication of Chaos in the Imperium.

The reality is that at best 10%? 20%? of the games you are going to play are against chaos wich makes no sense, the Grey Knights are way too precious to be wasted fighting non-Daemonic forces. On top of that half or more of the wargear/weapons Daemonhunter forces have access too is made to fight chaos or daemons specifically.

So i was thinking why not have a special rule that lets you select some units of your opponents army and promote them to "daemon" and/or "chaos" status. You could possibly receive bonus victory points in order to kill the targets you choose to upgrade but that again is optional really, all thats really important is a way to justify the use of Grey Knights/Daemonhunters against a non-chaos army.

The cool thing is we could actually have armies that use the amazing wargear made for just the Ordo Malleus without it being completely useless 90% of the time.

The offset would be that the units selected for the "upgrades" would probably receive small ulpgrades, a 5+ invul save and/or + 1 to one of their stats in order to balance the rule.

Seems like a good idea for the codex revision in a few years.

What do you all think?
Yeah, I;m not too keen on the idea either BUT I do compliment you on your ideas.

I agree wholeheartedly. Unless you specifically play a Chaos army, a lot of your upgrades are utterly useless. And if you do know you are going to play a Chaos, the fact is that Chaos person won't play you or have any of his special upgrades (unless he wants a challenge).

Not saying that all anti-demon things are useless to bring into a tourney (Blessed Hull comes to mind).

What they should do is give more "generic" upgrades which would help against Chaos AND other armies. The Psycannon is an excellent example. It's great against most demons because most of the time all they have is an Invul save, but so do other units.

Possible generic upgrades:
- Immunity to any gaseous attacks like Nurgle's rot or Poison clouds
- Ignores any toughness upgrades. Only base Toughness is used.
 

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Another possible upgrade would be against Khorne. Since their demons all get armor saves as well as invuls, whats the point in a psycannon? Maybe psycannons could have a choppa like rule against demons with armor, lowering their save to 4+.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
JuliusGaiusCaesar said:
Another possible upgrade would be against Khorne. Since their demons all get armor saves as well as invuls, whats the point in a psycannon? Maybe psycannons could have a choppa like rule against demons with armor, lowering their save to 4+.
Dont get me wrong im a big fan of the psycannon but i cant help feeling its really below par now that the assault cannon got upgraded, would not mind seeing a minor upgrade to the psycannon or even better a substantial point reduction, ap3 would be very cool or like 20 points instead of 30.
 

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The psycannon is way over priced in my opinion (you could get another grey knight) but being able to move and shoot is a good send (or maybe an emperor send.....). The assault cannon is overpowered but seeing as they cant change it now it would seem sensbile to upgrade the psycannon. Ap 3 would be nice but how much more would that cost.
 

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that is why no one plays with deamons! because of the creation of greyknights. Why would someone want to play deamons against greyknights, like the new codex alienhunters thing i heard about, that would really break the game. Why would i want to play tyranids if u were using anti tyranid rounds, why would i want to play orks if your using anti ork rounds etc. Why would i want to use deamons if you have anti deamon powers. Thats why i dislike the grey knights.. if i count as a deamon then why would i want to play you if you have an unfair advantage that you didnt pay for over me? I see this as being WAY overpowered.

PS: i did not mean to offend any deamonhunter players just giving my opinion.
 

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D1storter said:
The psycannon is way over priced in my opinion (you could get another grey knight) but being able to move and shoot is a good send (or maybe an emperor send.....). The assault cannon is overpowered but seeing as they cant change it now it would seem sensbile to upgrade the psycannon. Ap 3 would be nice but how much more would that cost.

Ap 3 Pyscannon with rending rules and voila, our anti-armor problems solved :yes:
 

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Pazich said:
Ap 3 Pyscannon with rending rules and voila, our anti-armor problems solved :yes:
Gimmea "C"
Gimmea "H"
Gimmea "E"
Gimmea "E"
Gimmea "S"
Gimmea "E"
What do you get? Every other army screaming "CHEESE!" That might help us but GW's Marines will cry that we get that and they don't. :yes:
 

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Actually, yea. Many people already claim that the psycannon is cheesy - if you don't believe me, take a few of them against a bike-heavy SM force. Bikes lose their armor save and gain an invulnerable save at high speeds :shifty:

I don't see it as being underpowered at all. It's literally just a heavy bolter on steroids. Sure it's costly, but it can fill a lot of roles on the table.
 

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mEGALOMANIAC said:
Actually, yea. Many people already claim that the psycannon is cheesy - if you don't believe me, take a few of them against a bike-heavy SM force. Bikes lose their armor save and gain an invulnerable save at high speeds :shifty:

I don't see it as being underpowered at all. It's literally just a heavy bolter on steroids. Sure it's costly, but it can fill a lot of roles on the table.
No joke. They call the Psycannon cheese?! Please. It can't penetrate power armor and there are few things out there that have invulnerable saves only.

You want cheese, look at the Eldar Reaper Cannon or the Starcannon which can pretty much be put on every single vehicle they have.
 

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He pretty much stated why in what you quoted...."Bikes lose their armour save and gain an invulnerable save at high speeds :shifty:".....with no regular save and the psycannon ignoring invul. saves...they get no save and as it's str-6, we are wounding on 2+'s.
 

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Well, there is the occasional plasma/lascannon/melta on a vehicle or Inq Ret or something.

but yes.. AP 3 psycannon wouldent make much sense. On the other hand, if you're after cheese - if you can psychically charge heavy bolter ammo, why not.. missles? Str 8 hit that ignores power armor and invulnerable saves, anyone?

As far as noone wanting to play demons against Grey Knights... Say that over in the Chaos section and you'll get a *long* lecture about how they'll kill you all blahblahblah. As it states in the DH codex, Demons get a bonus when fighting Grey Knights - they keep coming back - in order to counterbalance the GKs bonuses without raising their points cost (and thus putting them at a huge disadvantage against anyone who didn't play demons).
 

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Miril said:
As far as noone wanting to play demons against Grey Knights... Say that over in the Chaos section and you'll get a *long* lecture about how they'll kill you all blahblahblah. As it states in the DH codex, Demons get a bonus when fighting Grey Knights - they keep coming back - in order to counterbalance the GKs bonuses without raising their points cost (and thus putting them at a huge disadvantage against anyone who didn't play demons).
Yes, but the demons come back on the the field walking (not summoned). So if you have a slow demon odds are it will not see battle after it has been destroyed.

Furthermore, if you rekill the demon you get those victory points.

The point is if you KNOW you are playing a Chaos the most of the anti-demon upgrades are worth their cost. If you aren't they are points down the drain.

You can really give your Chaos opponent a lot of headaches if tooled correctly.
 

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Yes Grey knights are very over priced but I have discovered our true opponent in life.Eldar.I mean there weakness is bolters of any type (inside joke from store) and we can be a very shooty army if we wanted to. I mean we all can move and shoot 2 shots 24inches that’s 30inches and if the squad is maxed out that’s 20 to 40 shots .If there not fleeting or riding something were going to get at least 4 rounds and if we shoot and run WOW who knew a grey knights would take down tau not in close combat but shooting. We may be overpriced but we need not fear anything except mounted Daemon packs (shudder).I think we should have access to some space marine armory stuff like good stuff.EX Assault cannons for terminators, A cheap god like character like for example Emperors champion, Avatar I know we have daemon hosts but that’s very selective. This is just my opinion so don’t take any offense to it.:yes:
 

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The only thing I would like to do as far as a new rule with GKs would be make some of their existing rules universal vs only against daemons. Like have the daemonhammer always hit at initiative, and a blessed vehicle have +1 to armor penatration against all armor types. I mean when you are going against a Chaos force you have tons of options, but against all the other armies you can't use most of your options.
 

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If the damonhammer does not have special abilities vs. daemons though...then what do you call it?

P.S. - We should have a thing such as the Black Templar's where our Crusaders and Land Raiders can ignore lances!? :shifty:
 

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I'm happy enuf with muh psycannon. it can wipe the floor with 3/4 chaos god minions (unfortunately, big red khorne doesn't care. he still gets his saves..) unfortunately, this also causes a huge population boost of khorne players, and that can get old real quik..
 
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