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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all,

I have not done WFB for some 5 if not more years, and hoping to get into it with DE. I used to play dwarves and I am trying to change things up a little. After some poking around this forum, I will run something similar to this at 500 points:

Sorceress (1)
20x Darkshards with shields
5 Warlocks

EDIT: looks like that is not legal as I need 3 units aside from lord/hero...

So maybe start with something like:

Sorceress (1)
14x Corsairs with command and dual
5x Riders with shields and Rxbs
5x Warlocks

to grow this to 750 I am thinking about (swapping out 10 shards for 5 dark riders and adding a block of corsairs)

Sorceress (1)
10x Darkshards with shields
20x Corsairs
5x Dark Riders
5x Warlocks

Love the executioner models, and really want to get to a larger point game later where I can do something like 30 wyches and the Cauldron.
One of the biggest questions I had/have is the whole spearelves vs corsairs. This is a bit less of an issue now as I got my hands on 72 models from the last edition and I can test drive units some more without committing to purchasing something I will not use much in the future.

Any thoughts? Feedback is most appreciated!
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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What items are you putting on your Sorceress, and what Lore do you plan on using?

As for the lists - if you like Executioners, then use them. I really love Dark Riders in Core, because they're as good as Dark Shards and they fill the Chaff role nicely enough as well. So if you want Execs, go ahead and use a small block of them in games as low as 500pts, and fill your Core with Dark Riders. You'll always be able to use 2-3 units of Dark Riders (more, if you're willing to double them up into 2-3 blocks of 10 strong). It's the Warlocks that I would steer clear of for a bit. They're good - don't get me wrong - but they're nothing that's going to carry a game for you.

As for the Spears vs. Corsairs thing: Corsairs with Additional Handweapons, all the way. They have 2A then, which is just as good as Spears for number of attacks, except that you keep those attacks even when the Spears would have lost their 3rd/4th rank of models. Additionally, Corsairs have SeaDragon Cloaks to cover your Anti-shooting needs. It's one time where the unit is better, with an accompanying points increase, but isn't overpriced, as often happens in Fantasy armybooks.

Also, in my opinion, Corsairs like the Cauldron a great deal more than Wyches do. Wyches with the cauldron become a liability - their Frenzy at -3Ld (the whole reason to take them together) is just too hard to control and they are absolute glass cannons. They'll vaporize a unit, but if they don't, even a handful of return attacks will really hurt. Corsairs have armor, have 2A instead of 3A (2hw and Frenzy, or just 2hw) but the Cauldron can still give them Frenzy and they aren't going to be as crazy with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks so much for all the feedback!

I am thinking, should I go ahead and upgrade the Sorceress to level2 and skip the items for 500 point game? Also skip the warlocks if I am doing that. The reason I went with both is because I used to play stunties, and I went crazy on magic and mobility now that I decided to play the elves.

Per your advice going with Corsairs 14 to start off with and then to 20, skipping the Dark Shards, and maybe doing something like this?

Sorceress (2) Dark Magic 115
14x Corsairs with 2 weps and command 184
5x Dark Riders 100
5x Dark Riders 100

This becomes interesting as I could also trade in Sorceress' level for an "upgrade" of the Dark Riders to Warlocks if I really wanted to test them out, for example.

To get this to 750 I can throw in 10 Execs, 5 more Corsairs, and maybe an item on the Sorceress?

Thanks again - your feedback was really helpful!
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Right out of the gates, you could swap those Corsairs for Executioners, if you'd like. Also, especially in small games, it might be worth getting XBows onto your Dark Riders.

500pt games are usually quite far from optimized, just because there's so little that you can fit into the army, and so many options in the book. I would try looking to where you want to end up, and get a feel for how many models you'll eventually need. My 500pt games and upwards area always just stepping-stones to a 2500pt army. I don't like to buy something for a 1250pt game, for example, and then find that I don't need it once I hit 2500.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ah, gotcha - thanks! I think I was reading your suggestion to somebody in terms of getting to 2.5k, and you said Corsairs and Execs together in blocks of 25-30 should do the trick with the lord. If that's still a good idea from an army growth potential, I think I might head that way starting with 750. Although now that you said, swap the Corsairs for the Execs at 500... and I will just use one unit of Riders as a "shield" to get them into close combat, this is sounding pretty exciting! Oh and I should have listed and I will check, but at 20 points I think I took both rxbs and shields for both units of riders.

I will build up some models, and try both ways before I break open the Corsairs box though. I will also keep expanding the Dark Riders, possibly to blocks of 10 as you suggested. I also like the idea of Shades, and maybe a Hydra once I get there. I think I was just concerned that I don't have enough "beef" to work with at first, but like you said, it is hard to work with 500pt games. Did my 750 look okay? Thanks again!
 

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Dont be so quick to discount dark shardes in small games they are awsome. i would also say doomlocks over sorcerous that is a level 2 wizzard with 5 wounds and a 4++ and 10 strength 4 poison attacks and costs almost the same my 500pts is 19 dark shardes shields 5 warlocks and a master halberd, heavy armour, sea dragon, cloak, RXB, tali of endurance. 40 shots at an opponent at -1 S and T is good :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks! I think initially I was going to go with a large block of shards, but got quickly converted to Dark Riders. I also realized you need 3 choices of troops excluding the hero/lord. I ended up deciding to roll with a block of 15 Corsairs, 5 Riders, and then another 5 riders and a sorceress or 5 warlocks and a master. I then get another 5 Corsairs and a block of 10-ish Executioners to get me to 750. And eventually I want to end up with 2 pairs of 5 Riders and 5 Warlocks for flanks, 4 Crossbows, 2 30-ish block of Executioners, and another large 30ish block of Witches (or Corsairs) for 2-2.5k. Sounds like it would end up being pretty fun, although I don't have any experience to back it up.
 

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Thanks! I think initially I was going to go with a large block of shards, but got quickly converted to Dark Riders. I also realized you need 3 choices of troops excluding the hero/lord. I ended up deciding to roll with a block of 15 Corsairs, 5 Riders, and then another 5 riders and a sorceress or 5 warlocks and a master. I then get another 5 Corsairs and a block of 10-ish Executioners to get me to 750. And eventually I want to end up with 2 pairs of 5 Riders and 5 Warlocks for flanks, 4 Crossbows, 2 30-ish block of Executioners, and another large 30ish block of Witches (or Corsairs) for 2-2.5k. Sounds like it would end up being pretty fun, although I don't have any experience to back it up.
You only need three units in total, not counting characters. They can come from Core, Special, Rare or wherever.
Early-grow sounds fine, but you when you hit the bigger games you want large units of Locks, not small ones. Firstly, better casting bonus for working together, because more casters will starve you of dice, whereas having a large casting bonus will save you dice (especially because 'Locks don't roll random spells, both units are guaranteed to have the same). Their 4+ Ward also makes them excellent fast tarpits. The fastest tarpit in the game actually, and while they're maybe not the best at it (in the game) they are still more than enough to stop up opponents who try to hurry across to my infantry.
Also, you'll probably want Corsairs over Witches if you're not planning on including a Cauldron (you'd be hard pressed to, with that army).

Should be a solid army though, good job.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you sir! I think I am convinced to try bundling Warlocks into a larger unit instead. Might just to a unit of 10 to start with instead of 2x5, to get both benefits you described. I think I might need even more, not that I think about it, since I might want to use them as push through in the middle and drop a mass Soul hex to soften things up for a charge. Looks like statistically I will need 5d6 for that though (rank will push it to 18 from 17).

Now, here come more questions of course, if I may...
1) How do your typically roll your Executioners? I am thinking either 5x6 or 7x3.
2) Is Morathi worth it? Supplemented by a Master BSB (which will go with Corsairs).
3) If I take a Hag and Cauldron and take a block of 7x3 Witches (in place of Corsairs), am I doing something silly? (my indirect way of asking for clarifications as to why I would be hard pressed to take Cauldron with that army).

Thanks again!
 

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My personal opinion the best unit for couldron is black guard with razors standard and tullias that wrecks face with a hag bsb :D.

If Morathi could takle metal best thing ever that said i have used her a few times and i think she is pretty good another good one to go in black guard.

I actually go with small units of excutioners and flank or monster hunt with them.

hope this helps.
 
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