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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So basically I was given a free army from a Director of mine. I been in a few films for him, and after a while, he found out that I had played chaos for a long time. He had scraps of an army of DE, he gave it to me, and now after about 6 months of it sitting in my closet, I got it out, and started putting crap back together and seeing what I had. Now he only had a 2nd edition codex, so I ordered a 3rd edition from GW, and just today my GW store called me up and said its in. :ballon:

While I don't know the point values for any of it, I'll tell you what I have.

1 Archon
1 Talos
3 Raiders
5 Reavers w/ 2 Blasters
2 sniper squads
1 warrior squad to go in a raider 1blaster 1 splinter cannon 1 Sarabite
6 wyches w/2blasters
5 scourges 3 splinter cannons, 1 DL, 1 sarabite
7 Incubi
1 Drazzhar
1 Helion, which didn't have the Hellglaive, so I used some bits, and prolly gonna play it as a dracon or a Haem

Tactics wise, this is what I was thinking(for fun, not tourney yet)

My ancher is the 2 sniper squads, set up at oppsite ends of my table edge. Sitting back and shooting at anything the whole game.

The Talos is purely a scare tactic, put it in the center of my table edge, just move it slowly up the center, the enemy my crowd to the sides, aka get away from it.

At the same time I have 1 wing being reavers going tank hunting, and the warrior raider paired up with it. The raider would kinda just be bait or assault anything close enough.

The other wing would be my lord with 6 incubi, drazzhar, and 1 warrior with spinter cannon in a raider. With the wych raider going with it. They would go for the more troop heavy side of an army.

scourges....idk if i'd use them. maybe they'd go for objectives or something....

basically the idea of my list would be, Sniper squads at either side force the tanks to hide behind cover, and inhibit their anti-raider potential. The talos scares the enemy into moving his army to the sides, as each one of my wings goes screaming into the enemy. If they shoot at the talos, great, if they don't, great....talos is just a divertion.

So yeah...any tips would be great. I have been reading the guides on here, and the WWP system just isn't for me. I don't have enough raiders to go full out airforce....so I think for being given a broken army and rebuilding it....I hope I did well ;Y

again this is very rough list/tactics as I am gonna go get that codex in the next few days, don't have it yet.
 

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I can understand that web ways don't appeal. I don't often use them myself.

I like the idea of having 2 sniper squads as a base for your army. I will generally try to deploy them in cover and in positions where they get the best lines of sight. This will make people have to move tanks along the flanks or keep them in cover.

With the Talos in your army it can be quite handy as your opponent will be distracted by the talos and igonre the sniper squads.

With Incubi and Drazur its an interesting one. In the past I have played with some big units of Incubi with an archon and sure they smash most units in close combat but they are too powerful in big numbers 6+... so if you want to use them only run them in a unit of 5 generally with the Archon. Although Drazur can be nice he is a lot of points.

The other thing worth considering are Wych sqauds these guy/gals are awesome and these days I prefer them over incubi any day.

I like your thoughts about the bikes they are best suited as a unit that goes tank hunting. The other good thing you can do is use them to grab objectives in the last turn if they have survived.

Scourges are a hard one to work out there are a few things that you can do with them although generally there is another unit that can do it better for a cheaper cost. Although with a few splinter cannons against a horde army they can be quite good.

You actually don't need too many raiders to be effective with DE. Three are quite nice as generally on the table there will be enough cover to keep you out of sight for the first turn.

I would suggest getting yourself some more warriors and wyches. Some people will recommend Ravangers as they are pretty good in fact they are one of the best units at their disposal. Ironically I personally don't use them though.

For a general strategy that you can try at the moment with what you have is a standard counter attack. Just set up a nice core of firepower with your warrior squads... move your assault elements... incubi and wyches into a position for a second turn assault... that sort of thing, while the jetbikes go tank hunting those tanks that are hiding away from you.

Just some thoughts I hope it all makes sense and helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
yeah, if I put any money into this army, I am gonna get more wyches.

and with the HUGE incubi squad...I figured it would be good because most people I play, they have large retinues for their HQ's. I will most likely take down the HQ's squad in their turn not mine. Oh and my buddy has about 7k of DE....and he always runs a huge retinue....I want to see a Kabal Clash one day. haha. But yes in a game less than 1k I'd prolly take a Dracon, 3 incubi, 2 splinter cannons in a raider.
 

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Personally I avoid mixing the retinues... as DE HQs are really close combat and warriors are pretty useless in that regard when you have incubi...

Interestingly if you are fighting marines a lot and lets face it you always seem to. Incubi on the chrage will kill one marine each not to mention the Archon who should get 2-3...

The thing that in the end annoys me with the Incubi is two fold.
1. you can't detach your archon from them and at times you want to esepcailly is a heavy weapon squad is right next to the other squad you are charging.
2. Incubi are so slow if the raider gets taken down early.

By the way I always take an archon in any game size above 500 pts instead of a dracon... the extra attack and wound for me is so worth it as it gives me a bit more when it comes to combat drugs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So would it be a good idea to throw my Archon in with the Wyches, combat drug for the 12 inche charge, detach from the wyches last second, get that charge in, and then have him wreak havoc/ hope to god that the wyches come quick? I think in another DE guide that he was like the bullet and they were like the gun....he comes flying out to the enemy before the wyches get there....sorry for redundency in this post...but if you get what I mean...tell me your thoughts. Thanks so far by the way.
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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So basically I was given a free army from a Director of mine. I been in a few films for him, and after a while, he found out that I had played chaos for a long time. He had scraps of an army of DE, he gave it to me, and now after about 6 months of it sitting in my closet, I got it out, and started putting crap back together and seeing what I had. Now he only had a 2nd edition codex, so I ordered a 3rd edition from GW, and just today my GW store called me up and said its in. :ballon:

While I don't know the point values for any of it, I'll tell you what I have.

1 Archon
1 Talos
3 Raiders
5 Reavers w/ 2 Blasters
2 sniper squads
1 warrior squad to go in a raider 1blaster 1 splinter cannon 1 Sarabite
6 wyches w/2blasters
5 scourges 3 splinter cannons, 1 DL, 1 sarabite
7 Incubi
1 Drazzhar
1 Helion, which didn't have the Hellglaive, so I used some bits, and prolly gonna play it as a dracon or a Haem

Tactics wise, this is what I was thinking(for fun, not tourney yet)

My ancher is the 2 sniper squads, set up at oppsite ends of my table edge. Sitting back and shooting at anything the whole game.

The Talos is purely a scare tactic, put it in the center of my table edge, just move it slowly up the center, the enemy my crowd to the sides, aka get away from it.

At the same time I have 1 wing being reavers going tank hunting, and the warrior raider paired up with it. The raider would kinda just be bait or assault anything close enough.

The other wing would be my lord with 6 incubi, drazzhar, and 1 warrior with spinter cannon in a raider. With the wych raider going with it. They would go for the more troop heavy side of an army.

scourges....idk if i'd use them. maybe they'd go for objectives or something....

basically the idea of my list would be, Sniper squads at either side force the tanks to hide behind cover, and inhibit their anti-raider potential. The talos scares the enemy into moving his army to the sides, as each one of my wings goes screaming into the enemy. If they shoot at the talos, great, if they don't, great....talos is just a divertion.

So yeah...any tips would be great. I have been reading the guides on here, and the WWP system just isn't for me. I don't have enough raiders to go full out airforce....so I think for being given a broken army and rebuilding it....I hope I did well ;Y

again this is very rough list/tactics as I am gonna go get that codex in the next few days, don't have it yet.

Hi,
You seem to have a 1500 point army here and I think that 4 Raiders and the Talos should work well with a portal army. You don’t need a full airforce to fare well here, just on the units streaming from the portal and what you need here is more a portal carrier of some sort.

You also seem to have a VERY strong HQ, 7 Incubi and Drazhar is probably going to be an overkill for anyone’s army.

Just a word of warning here, against a knowledgeable opponent the Talos won’t scare them into dividing their forces in two and the sniper squads IMHO won’t fair as well on the wings as if you brought them more to the centre of the table.

The Talos will just be ignored until the last moment and one the sniper units will run out of targets midway through the game, I find it much better to centralise my heavy weapons in the best cover and then use flanking tactics through the speed of the Raiders and the portals.

I find that its rare the enemy will oblige you and split down the middle so they can be driven onto your dark lances.
Anyway congrats on a great start on Dark Eldar and I hope to see you around more.

Cheers.
 

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I have always found that with Dark Eldar your problem is always going to be the lack of armour... if you can get your unit of wyches with the archon in the right position which you can using raider you will be able to detach the archon charge one unit while the wyches take on the other.

THe best thing about wyches is as long as you have wych weapons, succubus with agoniser they will be able to take down most things in close combat or ground the oppoenet down.

Also with the archon being an independent character only the model in b2b and with 2" can attack you will find that you will normally finish them off before they get to strike and hence at the end of the turn you have locked 2 enemy units in close combat which means that they can't shoot which means other things like your Talos and other units can get closer without fearing 2 units shooting at you if you follow what I am saying.

In most games I play around 1000pts + my force is based around 2 sniper squads, 2 wych squads on raider and an archon. After that I pick a variety of things ranging from jetbikes (tank hunting)... foot slogger warrior squad... talos... whatever the occasion will call for.

It will all depend on your style as each to their own and everyone here will play their armies differently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi,

Just a word of warning here, against a knowledgeable opponent the Talos won’t scare them into dividing their forces in two and the sniper squads IMHO won’t fair as well on the wings as if you brought them more to the centre of the table.

The Talos will just be ignored until the last moment and one the sniper units will run out of targets midway through the game, I find it much better to centralise my heavy weapons in the best cover and then use flanking tactics through the speed of the Raiders and the portals.
Yeah talos ain't scary to me, but seeing as of the 50 or so regulars who play all the time at my local GW, only 2 of us play DE, and with the fact that they don't have a DE codex laying around, no one except us has ever read their codex. People get scared of it, also thanks to the new Dawn of War game....people see the talos on the battlefield and freak out...cause in the video game, they destroy crap.

also the reason I have my sniper squads spread out, is so that they cover the whole table or most of it. If in the center, they can be easily hiden from....all in all I'd say its a case by case basis based on terrain, but i'd try to keep my sniper squads spread out and in cover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have always found that with Dark Eldar your problem is always going to be the lack of armour... if you can get your unit of wyches with the archon in the right position which you can using raider you will be able to detach the archon charge one unit while the wyches take on the other.

THe best thing about wyches is as long as you have wych weapons, succubus with agoniser they will be able to take down most things in close combat or ground the oppoenet down.

Also with the archon being an independent character only the model in b2b and with 2" can attack you will find that you will normally finish them off before they get to strike and hence at the end of the turn you have locked 2 enemy units in close combat which means that they can't shoot which means other things like your Talos and other units can get closer without fearing 2 units shooting at you if you follow what I am saying.

In most games I play around 1000pts + my force is based around 2 sniper squads, 2 wych squads on raider and an archon. After that I pick a variety of things ranging from jetbikes (tank hunting)... foot slogger warrior squad... talos... whatever the occasion will call for.

It will all depend on your style as each to their own and everyone here will play their armies differently.
I like that idea of setting up a base of 2 snipers/2wyche raiders. and then filling in the gaps....to bad I only have 6 wyches right now...but as I said before, if I put money into this, I'd get more wyches and follow your example. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ok I am to lazy to bother to list my army, but I will say I played a 1350 point game, it was odd number because thats how many DE I had build, so my buddy just made a 1350 ork list to fight it. He played about 110 orks, 2 nob squads, 1 lootah squad, and a warboss. and I played something like what I listed above....in the end, my huge retinue of Incubi saved me....all my units were dead, there was still 40 orks, 1 boss, 10 nobs left of his. my Archon, Drazhar, 7 incubi and one SC, killed all of it in turn 5 and 6, it was amazing....so yeah....my incubi squad that would be over kill against a non horde army, saved my butt.

It was a sweet victory, I had no idea that Incubi were that good....as its my first time playing vs a compitant player, I had a battle vs a crappy tau player yesterday...but that was too easy. All in all, I learned a lot in both battles, and my ork buddy learned about the extreme pain Incubi can let out. haha.
 

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Glad to here about the result!

Incubi are close to the best close combat unit the game... but they come at a points cost.

Between them and the wyches its pretty close. Incubi rip against heavy infantry in particular marine and terminators while wyches fare well against most opponets even genestealers can have issues withe wyches.

Yeah incubi rule. In a game against orks & dark Eldar alliance. 7 incubi and Archon accounted for about 700pts of orks and about 200 pts of dark Eldar. Wyches are what got the incubi although my Archon finished the battle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Glad to here about the result!

Incubi are close to the best close combat unit the game... but they come at a points cost.

Between them and the wyches its pretty close. Incubi rip against heavy infantry in particular marine and terminators while wyches fare well against most opponets even genestealers can have issues withe wyches.

Yeah incubi rule. In a game against orks & dark Eldar alliance. 7 incubi and Archon accounted for about 700pts of orks and about 200 pts of dark Eldar. Wyches are what got the incubi although my Archon finished the battle.
my 6 wyches got punched in the face by 10 nobs.....
 

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Wyches need to be in units of 10 or more to really get the most out them. The problem is that you only have 6 at the moment.

The irony is that you can just about take 2:1 wyches to incubi and they can be devestating on the charge. They are best used with units that have power weapons because of their 4+ invul save in cc.

Combine that with the fact that they halve enemy weapons skills (generally) and negate the extra attacks for 2 ccw means they are absolutly nasty against most units. Against marines, howling banshees and genestealers as well as monstorous creatures like wraithlords and carnefexes.

Basically what incubi struggle with Wyches will grind down. Its great when you have 2 decent sized units working together. Something to think about for the future as you continue to collect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wyches need to be in units of 10 or more to really get the most out them. The problem is that you only have 6 at the moment.

The irony is that you can just about take 2:1 wyches to incubi and they can be devestating on the charge. They are best used with units that have power weapons because of their 4+ invul save in cc.

Combine that with the fact that they halve enemy weapons skills (generally) and negate the extra attacks for 2 ccw means they are absolutly nasty against most units. Against marines, howling banshees and genestealers as well as monstorous creatures like wraithlords and carnefexes.

Basically what incubi struggle with Wyches will grind down. Its great when you have 2 decent sized units working together. Something to think about for the future as you continue to collect.
yeah...completely forgot about the no CCW thing...ugg lol....I'll have to remember that...and yeah I need more wyches....
 

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It actually is something a lot of people seem to forget. A friend of mine who uses nids thought he was immuned to if with his Hive tryant not realising that it always negates his scything talons that he had. Needless to say a unit of 10 wyches knocked out his tryrant with the lose of 1 wych.

That is something to remember when you face Nids... and with their high I they nearly always strike first. I love them... used to prefer Incubi all the way but I had a few games where the Wyches constantly did better than I expected so my lovly incubi have been given the back seat to wyches.

The only thing in cc you have to fear though are Dreadnoughts!!! but that is what a dark lance is for. :D
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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Wyches need to be in units of 10 or more to really get the most out them. The problem is that you only have 6 at the moment.

The irony is that you can just about take 2:1 wyches to incubi and they can be devestating on the charge. They are best used with units that have power weapons because of their 4+ invul save in cc.

Combine that with the fact that they halve enemy weapons skills (generally) and negate the extra attacks for 2 ccw means they are absolutly nasty against most units. Against marines, howling banshees and genestealers as well as monstorous creatures like wraithlords and carnefexes.

Basically what incubi struggle with Wyches will grind down. Its great when you have 2 decent sized units working together. Something to think about for the future as you continue to collect.


Hi,
The problem that I see about having more than 10 Wyches in one unit is that they are denied transport and it’s the combined mechanism of the Raider, disembark, fleet and possibly a 12” charge that really ensures that they get where needed.
That and the ratio of Succubi/Agoniser to Wyches is reduced too much to be affective as a flexible squad.
(If I could have a unit of just Succubi/Agonisers I would!)

And I would much rather ‘grind’ an enemy down with 2 smaller squads of Wyches that have 2 Succubi than 1 larger one – the grind tends to be quicker.

And against any creature that is strength 6 or more, like a Carnifex, they will not have its WS halved (last bullet point in the Wyches Special Rules.)

For me the comparison between a unit of Incubi with power weapons against a unit of Wyches with one Agoniser is that the Wyches are a “take on all comers” unit, the Wyches providing wounds for the Succubi, whereas the Incubi are specialists. If you find the right target with them then they are great (like against power armour on marines) but otherwise they are just a points sink and slow down your HQ.

Cheers.
 

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Hi,
The problem that I see about having more than 10 Wyches in one unit is that they are denied transport and it’s the combined mechanism of the Raider, disembark, fleet and possibly a 12” charge that really ensures that they get where needed.
That and the ratio of Succubi/Agoniser to Wyches is reduced too much to be affective as a flexible squad.
However if you are running 2X10 man/women squads they can get nasty and mash even marines quite quickly. Normally takes 2 rounds of combat which is ideal...

And I would much rather ‘grind’ an enemy down with 2 smaller squads of Wyches that have 2 Succubi than 1 larger one – the grind tends to be quicker.
When you say that Wicky are you saying that you run 2X5 man sqauds? I really haven't tried that in all my years running Dark Eldar.

And against any creature that is strength 6 or more, like a Carnifex, they will not have its WS halved (last bullet point in the Wyches Special Rules.)
Unfortunately it doesn't halve their WS but if its a CC fex then the poor think only has 2 attacks if they opted not to take the crushing claws biomorph.

For me the comparison between a unit of Incubi with power weapons against a unit of Wyches with one Agoniser is that the Wyches are a “take on all comers” unit, the Wyches providing wounds for the Succubi, whereas the Incubi are specialists. If you find the right target with them then they are great (like against power armour on marines) but otherwise they are just a points sink and slow down your HQ.

Cheers.
I think that sums it up well they can take on anything and the other day when I was doing the numbers their survivability is pretty constant in CC. I just get scared with what might happen to them when we do get a new codex. Fingers crossed that they don't mess them up.
 

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Hi Mate,
I didn't want to sound harsh back there, its more of a 'style' thing I suppose.

The Wyches (as always in the game) are a balance thing and since I always put these into a Raider the max I can have is 10 but thats a 9:1 ratio on the Agoniser.

Personally I see this as being a bit light on with special weapons and prefer to use 8 man squads that result in a 7:1 Agoniser ratio and then use more points to try and field two such squads.
Its the Agonisers that I want here but it has to be balanced out against making the unit too small and prone to breaking.

Thats the 'balance that I use and its just preference.

It also factors in some redundancy just in case your large foot slogging squad gets mashed by indirect fire or assault cannons.

To sum up I would much prefer to have 2 smaller squads mounted on Raiders that have a greater chance of charging than 2 larger squads on foot.
It's tactically more flexible as the Raiders can go their own merry way targetting armour after disembarking and since the charge is all but guaranteed I don't need as many in the first place for the same result.

But I must say that I will actually have to try 20 man Wych squads out before much more
than this.

Anyway nice talking to you .
 
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