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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all I am a complete ogre noob only faced once. So I have a few questions

What's better a level 2 butcher or fire belly as the only wizard in an army?

Are thundertusks good like the idea of them?

Are mornfang good and are they better with great weapons or iron fists for 2+6+?

And if a butcher can take an iron fist can they have magic armour?

Many thanks
 

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Like most armies a LVL4 is needed but at low pts I would go for a fire belly just for the breath weapon.
Thunder tusk are good if you use them right like a lot of things really, I prefer the stonehorn myself due to the massive impact (pun intended) it can have while charging.
Mornfang are very good lots of attacks good save. I would always go for the iron fist as a 2+ is much better than a 3+ and a 6++ in combat is not bad aswell. They like everything in the ogre army bar a few choices need the charge for all those S5 impact hits.
Last but not least yes Ogre Wizards can take magic armour (not fire belly) so you can have Glitering scales and fencers blades, armour of silvered steel etc.

Hope this helps, I don't even play ogres myself but my mate does and has done very well with them.
Also an over looked unit are the maneaters who can be amazing with a LVL 4 great maw as regen is so, so, so good on ogres.

Lucas
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I was thinking of a level 2, BSB 10 Iron guts both characters here 2 saber tusks 8 mornfang in 2 units of 4 and 2 thunder tusks at 2000pts thoughs on that?

I have played games at 2000pts with only a level 2 and normally fair well. However it is defiantly needed at over 2k.

I am trying to decide between ogres and lizards as my new council of war project.
 

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I will say Ogres are good, but lizardmen are better, but that is my opinion. The issue with the LvL2 is he is the general and only LD7 with the +1 Ld banner that not much to keep an army in order.

Don't get me wrong the list you have looks good, its just the LD thing that bothers me. Maybe you should be winning every combat to not have to worry about it.
Give it a try if you already have the models.

Also use the army you can see yourself using in the future, not just for the sake of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well my lizard list is up in the lizard forum.

Funny the leadership thing was my only concern with the list and the lack of models.

Don't know if i could squeez in a level 4 also a level 4 cant take a great weapon. Tbh if i am not winning combat i am not winning the game with this list. but yeah on LD 8 is poor at best.

Theme wise i was gunna be a well paid mercenary group that work for the Karaks of the dwarfs hence the heavy armoured army that it will be.

The idea with the Iron guts is to have champ musician and standard and push the wizard to the second rank? Wizard equipped as follows armour of destiny great weapon. I need to postition well with the mornfang their victory will rely on getting the charge.
 

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Ogre wizards are hard to kill go 4 wide and he will kill a lot of guys aswell.
 

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Yeah I forgot about the bsb. Should be fine. Do you already have the models?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Not yet the idea is a slow build project. So need a list I like and that can work.

Annoyingly no one has commented on my lizard list lol
 

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You have asked the same questions all of us still ask after every game.

Ogre book is, IMHO, one of the best written books in GWs library. Every role has a lot of great competition, and nothing in the book is useless at all, save maybe yhettis.

My current feelings are-
Firebelly. Fire, as a lore, is great. Fire cloak and sword of rhuin make bulls scary. Maw is also great. Its kind of a season to taste choice. If you go fire, take the great weapon.

I love stonehorns. The ASL bubble is absolutely devastating if you place it right.

Oh good lord are mournfangs good. Some say broken. I like the 2+/6++ over great weapons. They are really hard to kill that way.

Yep. You get magic armor on butchers. I recommend grits sickle or hellheart first though. You are t5 and regen wounds on cast. No need to wear armor.

And before you ask it, iron fist bulls (ogres to people who start off with this edition) before ironguts, all day.

Also, learn to love the iron blaster.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for Joining in Spike i assume you play ogres?

really Bulls over iron guts i have heard nothing but Iron guts??

I was thinking butcher in armour of destiny great weapon?

Did you mean to say stone horns? I love the thunder tusks love the ASL bubble good tough wounds think its odd they have no impact hits at all, also love the hapoon hello monster killer :).

I agree on mornfangs thing the are a great model to.

Love the iron blaster don't love my misfortune with misfire (i possess the worst like i have more turn one explosions than anyone in the world) an as such steer away from big guns now.

would you look at my list in the army list page tell me your thoughts please?

Many thanks for the help
 

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If you're still looking tor feedback on this, heres my take.

1. I love the look and theme of Ironguts but yeah, standard Ogre Bulls are better. Ironguts are 43pts/model but Bulls are just 32pts/model (with Ironfists), for literally the same statline. You're paying 11pts/model more for Ironguts and all you're getting is +1 Leadership and Great Weapons. Unless you're facing heavily armoured foe (Warriors Of Chaos), or expect to see a lot of monsters you really don't need S6 hits, S4 will do fine. Especially as Ironguts get a 5+ armour save, but Bulls with Ironfists are rocking a 5+ armour AND a 6+ parry, so they're perversely harder to kill. Really, unless you plan to do something specific with the Ironguts magic banner allowance; it's just not worth it. The "Gutstar" may be popular, but that's usually so the characters can get the benefits of two magic banners; one from the unit and one from the BSB. In almost all other situations standard Ogre Bulls are better, especially if your opponent is using great weapons. Initiative 2 may seem crap, but it beats out undead and anything with great weapons.

Edit: Had to go in a hurry, finishing post now.

2. Thundertusks, I feel are hugely underrated. They're competing with the incredible Ironblaster, one of the best cannons in the game, so naturally few notice them. That said it's a great model, it's go good tactical options, it's also both a stone thrower and a bolt thrower as well as a monster/chariot thing. I think two Thundertusks would be a genuinely cool challenge at 2000 points and your opponent will likely consider you rather sporting for choosing to not bring Ironblasters. If you want to really make a show of it, a Hunter mounted on a Stonehorn would come out of your character allowance; so you can include the Stonehorn AND two Thundertusks, all in 2000 points. Though be aware you will be outnumbered with three big monsters like that on the field.

3. Butcher w/ Armour Of Destiny is definitely a good choice. Should be pretty sturdy and will do well in a unit. Not sure I'd bother with the great weapon though. I'd rather get the Ironfist and up the armour and ward saves further. Having a 4+/3++ is pretty sweet I'd say and it'll help him out no end.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How would the butcher get a 3++ you can't boost the ward wards don't combine like armour. He would be in rank behind the front swinging from behind.

I fight alot of heavily armoured opponents and high toughness opponents. I prefer the look of the model I like the gut plates and helmets the iron guts wear and bulls don't have that though bulls with the armour and stuff would be cool and would benefit more from the thunder tusks
 

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How would the butcher get a 3++ you can't boost the ward wards don't combine like armour. He would be in rank behind the front swinging from behind.

I fight alot of heavily armoured opponents and high toughness opponents. I prefer the look of the model I like the gut plates and helmets the iron guts wear and bulls don't have that though bulls with the armour and stuff would be cool and would benefit more from the thunder tusks
Ward saves combine with Parry. Ogres with Ironfists get to Parry. This is pretty much the whole reason Tzeentch Warriors are so handy going sword + board. Parries are, as far as I'm aware, included in ward saves but by all means tell me if I'm wrong; it's a pretty massive issue if I've got this wrong.

Armour Of Destiny gives a 5+/4++, adding an Ironfist counts as a shield and gives you +1 to your armour and a parry (even when mounted), therefore, that gives you a 4+/3++ on the Butcher. I've rechecked the BRB and the Ogre Army Book and there's no rules that say parry saves cannot be combined with other ward saves that I can see.
 

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Ward saves combine with Parry. Ogres with Ironfists get to Parry. This is pretty much the whole reason Tzeentch Warriors are so handy going sword + board. Parries are, as far as I'm aware, included in ward saves but by all means tell me if I'm wrong; it's a pretty massive issue if I've got this wrong.

Armour Of Destiny gives a 5+/4++, adding an Ironfist counts as a shield and gives you +1 to your armour and a parry (even when mounted), therefore, that gives you a 4+/3++ on the Butcher. I've rechecked the BRB and the Ogre Army Book and there's no rules that say parry saves cannot be combined with other ward saves that I can see.
I think you're wrong. MoT stacks with a Parry, but that's a special case detailed in the MoT entry in the WoC book. I don't see anywhere that says that Parries combine with other ward saves.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
in theory you could use a couple of models in the box and convert the characters (thats what i did) but thats a nice sturdy list will plenty of punch :)
 
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