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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you guys think of the new disembarking rule??

No charging after getting out of the transport is just the same as deepstrike...What are the frag assault launchers on the cruisader for now. They are of no use because you cant charge (not even in troops that are in close combat). Is there a special rule for the landraider?? If you could you let me know?
 

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In all honesty, I hate the idea of not being able to charge after disembarking. Peoples say Rhino Rush sucks, and some go as far to say that its a Newbies rule (I've heard this said once
)

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't transporting troops forward what APCs do?

I think if their going to take this out, then they should go back to the 2nd Ed (Was it 2nd Ed?) rules, where you couldn't disembark troops if the Rhino went 12"+ as it was said it would be moving to fast for troops to disembark.
 

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logic appears to be no longer a part of the 40 k rules system, pity. This situation probably sums it up

A terminator veteran assualt squad (deathwing), veterans of hundreds of battles each charge forward in the chapters most revereed transport, in many ways the perfect attack tank/transport, the awesome LRC. Ahead of them is a XV8 crisis team, sporting considerable plasma firepower. The assault doors open, designed specifically for close assault troops. The brave deathwing charge out, and then, as if paralyzed, stop, and decide that their sergeants lone storm bolter really would be better off at taking out their enemy than their effecient, sharp lightning claws

With the exception of the no disembarking sh!t (i apologise for language but thats really the only way a player whose army is designed specifically for close combat can feel when they make an integral part of the army redundant) the new assault rules are ok. I can also see guard players a tiny bit annoyed because ordinance has to be alot more accurate if it wants to take out tanks, but then again they get to move and fire now.

Skimmers have really been down powered (grav tanks)- biel tan players will probably whine incessantly like me for this too

I have, however, heard that at least space marine vehicles will be getting an "assault doors" upgrade they can buy for their vehicles in the new Space Marine codex, but this is far from concrete
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
an assault door. And what does that do?? A marine that wants out is kick by an electrical boot out of the tank and straight in the unit. what about the frag launchers??? They are useless now. <_<
 

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The Trial Vehicle Rules are completely recinded as per GW. They were a brief experiment, and in no way have close to the status of the Trial Assault Rules. MANY problems were discovered. Remember the TAR went through several versions online before they were published in any usable form. I would provide feedback about the rules, but wouldn't consider using them other than to experiment.
 

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i thought 'assault doors' were like the doors on the front of the land raider. you were actually able to disembark and charge out of these doors... u know the funky ones that open up @ the front... but things like a Rhino arnt able to cos they just have more standard type side doors, which arnt really 'assaulty'...
 

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I can't say I like the idea of disembarknig my marines outside the rhino unable to assault and only to get shot away before getting the chance to assault. As stated before isn't this the purpose of an APC? I can ony think about other armies like Eldar and IG, they would get slaughtered even worse than marines would. I think "Rhinorush" and disembarking rules should remian just the way they are (some modifications are ok though)

I believe I read somewhere that the change of the rules came because Andy Chambers despise the Rhinorush as it is today. Rhinorush is one of the easiest "tactics" to counter, and can hardly be called a problem. To be honest, I'm not even sure if lunging all your troops towards the enemy like that can be called a true tactic, but that just me. The people that whine about the Rhinorush should just start to apply some tactics of their own and they would realize that Rhinorush can be used against the people that uses it.

If its true that Mr Chambers despise the Rhinorush that much, maybe he should consider changing his own tactics, instead of changing the rules so they fit him?
 

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Well according to wolfraider, the TVR's no longer apply, and as i can find no trace of them on the website, I tend to believe him. AS for the rush not being a tactic, that's absurd. It's just another form of the calvary charge (which was almost unstoppable before firearms changed the face of warfare). Granted just rushing forward blindly and disgorging your troops haphazardly into the foe isn't very devious, and not often effective; a good general will find the weak point in his opponents' line(s) and apply maximum force there.
 

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Originally posted by LordHat@Oct 9 2003, 22:31
Well according to wolfraider, the TVR's no longer apply, and as i can find no trace of them on the website, I tend to believe him. AS for the rush not being a tactic, that's absurd. It's just another form of the calvary charge (which was almost unstoppable before firearms changed the face of warfare). Granted just rushing forward blindly and disgorging your troops haphazardly into the foe isn't very devious, and not often effective; a good general will find the weak point in his opponents' line(s) and apply maximum force there.
I think the point was that they were rushing forward in the transport, and then being allowed to rush forward some more.

People can argue the realism of it all they want, it certainly isn't as one sided as many in this thread have made it out to be. Sure APCs are for rapid transport of troops, but that doesn't mean that the troops should be able to immediately jump out and sprint ahead some more.

As for the LRC, ya the grenade launchers were basically broken as a result of the rule changes, but that's not the first time that GW's rules have conflicted.

Anyway, I don't really know if the trial vehicle rules are in use at the moment, as I'm just getting back into 40k and trying to find a place to play.

I like them more than the old ones, but perhaps I'm alone in that.
 

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the reason why you can rush forward some more is because simply, thats why you pay up to 255 points

before i hear you cry, "50pts for a rhino mate!" i would like to point at that a PULSE RIFLE has the ability to take it out in one shot. 12 pts < 50pts, which incidentally is the same cost of a guardsman with plasma gun. THe rhino is probably the worst transport in the game now- even dark eldar and orks are better: they may be weaker but remember they are open topped so can do the disembarking thing, and they are fast. Even guardsmen get a more useful transport (albiet, the door at the back would be very annoying if u want to assault)

I personally dont use the rhinorush much, its too easy to counter, especially with the humorous new damage charts (oh no, we've lost our priceless stormbolter, ARRRRGGHH EVERYONE OUT!). But simply changing the rules to suit idiot, whining players who are too stupid to defeat a basic tactic like rhinorush deserve to be flogged, not rewarded
 

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oh, sorry i just remembered

Salamander, skimmers, especially eldar skimmers have been severely toned down

It used to be that you took a wave serpent with a wraithstone or something in it, load up your troops, move over 6" and your tank suddenly because incredibly tough (glancing hits only, roll 2 dice and pick lowest for damage tables), deploy, destroy, embark, move on

Now skimmers really have to be 6" away from their location (not 3" forward 3" back), cannot deploy if they moved over 12", cannot turn around after deloying- the hatch is at the back and this meant REALLY bad things for wave serpents as that shield thing only works on the front and side.

I thought they needed some sort of revision, because the near-invulnerability was pretty harsh/annoying, but not that drastic....
 

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There seems to be something everyone is forgetting........

Turning does NOT count as movement.

IE move however far it is you can move and deploy, then TURN your vehicle 180 degrees and suddenly that REAR hatch is in the forward position. No problems there for assaulting.

EDIT: Of course this is the standard rules.... I have not seen the TVRs so I dunno about that.
 

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take a look- the damage tabesl have been modified pretty significantly.

I agree that if u lose a storm bolter or something u should definately also be stunned but disembarking......thats really briliant

also it now specifies that u cannot turn after deploying, i was right- there is even a 'designers notes' (more like idiots ramblings) thing clarifying it.
 

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part of the Trail Vehicle Rules so no, if you do not play them then the damage tables dont count (i guess unless u and ur opponent consents to otherwise)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
is it true that with the new assault rules you may not charge when you shoot, or is it that if you shoot you lose your extra attack on the charge?? im confused, which one is it?? :blink:
 

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both

you may not assault if you fired twice with rapid fire weapons/pistols or shot heavy weapons.

if you shot once with rapid fire/pistols or used assault weapons, u may assault but not +1 attack
 
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