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Keeper of Records and Ale
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just looking at a discussion on the subject elsewhere and wondering what all think of the technique here. Frist off What is NMM?

NMM (Non Metal Metal) is an artistic technique of painting a metallic surface without using metal paints, for example a sword (silver) would be done using greys, black and white. It is an advanced technique and generally one you will see at Golden Daemon than at your local gaming group (unless you have GD entries there). There are also off shoots of the technique, the mian one being SENMM *Sky Earth Non Metal Metal); painting NMM but reflecting the ground and the skys in the piece.

Metallics - Using metal paint to paint metal items.

Now, this is my personal thoughts on it. I as yet have not attempted NMM, I do not believe myself good enough or possess the correct techinques to produce it correctly. That being said, I find much of NMM cartoony or odd. Sometimes they do not reflect the correct angle of light and at a different angle they tend to look rather wrong and flat; others they painter has done a good job but they look much too cartoon like.

It is more something to be used for showcasing the ability and models, along the line of Golden Daemon. I have indeed heard that many hopefuls do not get a look in unless NMM is used, sounds wrong but looking at most entries it indeed could be true. Overall I do like it if it is done to a top quality, I am not saying do not try but do not expect people to drool unless it is near impossible to tell the differences.

I prefer metallics, they are just as hard to make look convincing as NMM and sometimes even harder due to the paint. It is never a case of silver, ink and then highlight if you want it to look good. I need practice here too.

I will of course attempt NMM when I am confident of my ability but for now I will stick with metallics. Though I am experimenting with adding non metallic paint into metal paint for effect, codex grey and silver make a nice flat silvery grey look.


So, your thoughts?

KU
 

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LO Zealot
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I like using nmm technique with metal paint. Makes the metals look really reflective...

I also like using the same techique with different colours for glowing power swords, or bluey frost axes.

I've also used the same technique to paint refective armour. My draco and Tigurius are good examples.
 

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The Fallen
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I agree with Gareth, that I enjoy painting NMM, and it has its place,

KU first thing is you definatley have the painting ability, the only issue is do you have the eye to paint the light in the right place.

That said NMM is very time consuming, Asside from inquisitor scale minis, the only army I have used it on is death wing because of the low number of minis and the small ammount of metal

The other thing with NMM, asside from doingi t proper,ly, is the lack of light movement when someone walks around a mini, but then your highlights dont move so why worry about that?
 

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I’m not a real fan of metallic colors. Gold is ok to paint ad that can other look good. Silver often don’t fifth with the miniature. At least not with he colors I tend to use. I have only tried NNM once and that is on my Emperors Champion.
I like to pant my weapon color full, here I think NNM can be really use full. Before I heard about NNM I just painted my sword like on my Banshees. (Blue with highlight on all the edges.)

I think it can look better if I use a technique like. But if we start to talk SENMM then I don’t feel that its a very good technique to use. Yes it looks great on pictures, because pictures are flat and you cant turn them around. Often it don’t look good from every angel.

If you use normal NNM then I believe its more easy to avoid this problem.
 

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The Fallen
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See that arguement about turning them and the light doesnt move - it really doesnt wash as all the best painters paint static light in the form of highlights on the areas that are not metalic, why should the metals move?
 

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Often when you paint highlights you don’t paint this extreme reflection that you do when you paint SENMM. I think that is my problem with it, and also it looks better on pictures IMO. Its lie its fits better on 2d then 3d.
But as I sad this don’t happen on normal NMM because you don’t use the same extreme reflection on them.
 

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Senior Member
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can anyone tell me how you paint NMM and give me a link because I never saw it consiously.

thanks in advance
 

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The Fallen
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Dicegod, I believe there are articles on the subject or do a search, there is a really nic captain stern somewhere.

To paint NMM you must be competant as a blender (that is wet blending or more commonly layering/dry blending), instead of using metalic paint which reflects the light, you paint the reflection using conventional colours. For steel/iron this is usually done with greys, for gold/bronze with browns. you can also do it with colour (look at gareths post on his castelan drako- see the horizon line, he has addapted DE-NMM to do that.
 

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Keeper of Records and Ale
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Cheredanine said:
KU first thing is you definatley have the painting ability, the only issue is do you have the eye to paint the light in the right place.
I disagree here, I am not really confident about my blending ability and I cannot wetblend but I am trying to get my basics good first. More advanced stuff will be progressed when I feel up for it.


But overall, I like the technique but in moderation. I hate the fact that many seem to believe that to be a good painter you have to have the ability to do this technique but when many try it is not good. Practice is needed but still, expect it to look bad unless you are able to do all the other techinques required for NMM.

But like I said I am currently mixing in non metallic paints in with my metallic ones; chaos black and Boltgun Metal make a good base colour; chainmail/boltgun metal and codex grey gives a gret subdued, flat grey colour and adding in a touch of white takes the highlights one step further.

Dicegod, please keep the discussion here for thoughts and comments on NMM. If you require information on painting it I suggest you try CMON and go to the articles section there or google.


KU
 

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Personally I like swords and stuff done without metals sometimes - you can get really good shading and highlighting.

Also personally I think that SENMM looks totally wank even when done well. I looks totally unrealistic, and draws your attention to the fact that you have just painted a piece of plastic. A really well painted model without SENMM can make you forget that for a moment, but with SENMM I just think - "oh yeah, its a little plastic man painted that is trying to look realisitc".

Each to his own though.
 

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The Fallen
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King Ulrik Flamebeard said:
I disagree here, I am not really confident about my blending ability and I cannot wetblend but I am trying to get my basics good first. More advanced stuff will be progressed when I feel up for it.
LMAO, dont let your ego get out of control Adam, actually most NMM is done with dry blending, certainly tutorials run that way, the problm is down to the fact that light does not particularly follow the lines of a mini, hence the Halo of Light technique, and I think your dry blends are up to it

But overall, I like the technique but in moderation. I hate the fact that many seem to believe that to be a good painter you have to have the ability to do this technique but when many try it is not good. Practice is needed but still, expect it to look bad unless you are able to do all the other techinques required for NMM.
I hate that too, in face anyone who can competently dry blend can paint nmm, provided thy have the patience for lots of layers, the trick IMHO is about having an eye to the way light hits things, look at gareths UM libby and Castelan, that horizon line, I can paint that, so can you, but it had not occured to us, it occured to him, but then he is a graphic artist, the tallent is not in pgysically painting the effect but in figuring out how it will be

But like I said I am currently mixing in non metallic paints in with my metallic ones; chaos black and Boltgun Metal make a good base colour; chainmail/boltgun metal and codex grey gives a gret subdued, flat grey colour and adding in a touch of white takes the highlights one step further.
Cheap one mate, the greays and blacks will blend with steel type metalics, but blendinf less neutral colours is the £%^
 

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Cheredanine said:
Dicegod, I believe there are articles on the subject or do a search, there is a really nic captain stern somewhere.
All the painting articles are removed I searched it before
 

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As I sad I’m no expert on the NNM. Still I don’t believe that you need to wet bled, when you paint NNM.
You are painting relatively small areas with a long highlight (Example: from really dark gray to white). When you do this on a small area I don’t think wet blending is the way to go. Sure you can if you like but you defiantly don’t have to.

The guy that did the great sword in my link didn’t use wet blending.

Also normal NNM don’t seem so hard I got a ok result from my first try I think. And I’m not a expert painter.

I think wet blending is a lot harder then NNM. NMM is just a different way to use highlights, what kind of technique you are using doesn’t really matter (but I have a hard time picture NNM using drybrush...).

Edit: I gave a link al redy
 

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Keeper of Records and Ale
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Cheredanine said:
LMAO, dont let your ego get out of control Adam, actually most NMM is done with dry blending, certainly tutorials run that way, the problm is down to the fact that light does not particularly follow the lines of a mini, hence the Halo of Light technique, and I think your dry blends are up to it


I hate that too, in face anyone who can competently dry blend can paint nmm, provided thy have the patience for lots of layers, the trick IMHO is about having an eye to the way light hits things, look at gareths UM libby and Castelan, that horizon line, I can paint that, so can you, but it had not occured to us, it occured to him, but then he is a graphic artist, the tallent is not in pgysically painting the effect but in figuring out how it will be


Cheap one mate, the greays and blacks will blend with steel type metalics, but blendinf less neutral colours is the £%^

My ego, out of control? Nay! Never, I am as grounded as a dwarf. ;) I maybe able to do it any maybe I shall try it at some point, though my blending is not as good as it can be - something my pictures do not show that well. But we shall see. It is something to attempt in the future.

Gareth does have that slight advantage with here due to his job, some people can just manke me cry.. :( Of course Ana from CoC can make many do so.. painting for a year and can do this: http://chestofcolors.dmkproject.net/cofc-postnuke/albums/40k/wolfpriest.jpg Tis not natural. But it is a good way of doing a few models but like I have said it has been muttered that to win a Daemon you need to master this and I do not like all of its uses. I found Boltman's Dread (won a GD in the States if I remember correctly) the steel look he used looks too cartoony to me. Much of the stuff I just do not like and find the technique over done.

It maybe cheap but it works, makes my metallics look better. See the brass looks on the test models (I have a thread about - From the Ground Up) they have their highlight done with dwarf flesh mixed into the base coat, subtle but bloody good.

KU
 

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The Fallen
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King Ulrik Flamebeard said:
My ego, out of control? Nay! Never, I am as grounded as a dwarf. ;) I maybe able to do it any maybe I shall try it at some point, though my blending is not as good as it can be - something my pictures do not show that well. But we shall see. It is something to attempt in the future.
problem is your dwarves have you too grounded mate

Gareth does have that slight advantage with here due to his job, some people can just manke me cry.. :( Of course Ana from CoC can make many do so.. painting for a year and can do this: http://chestofcolors.dmkproject.net/cofc-postnuke/albums/40k/wolfpriest.jpg Tis not natural. But it is a good way of doing a few models but like I have said it has been muttered that to win a Daemon you need to master this and I do not like all of its uses. I found Boltman's Dread (won a GD in the States if I remember correctly) the steel look he used looks too cartoony to me. Much of the stuff I just do not like and find the technique over done.
I think you got the first bit wrong, Gareth has his job because of a slight advantage (tallent/apptitude), and yes Anna and Mahon, Jenova, allthe COC/former headblasterz crew astound me, you seen the Harelquins there?

It maybe cheap but it works, makes my metallics look better. See the brass looks on the test models (I have a thread about - From the Ground Up) they have their highlight done with dwarf flesh mixed into the base coat, subtle but bloody good.
Cheap is the wrong word, try doign it with a primary colour and you can be in a world of pain(t?)
 

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Keeper of Records and Ale
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Cheredanine said:
problem is your dwarves have you too grounded mate


I think you got the first bit wrong, Gareth has his job because of a slight advantage (tallent/apptitude), and yes Anna and Mahon, Jenova, allthe COC/former headblasterz crew astound me, you seen the Harelquins there?



Cheap is the wrong word, try doign it with a primary colour and you can be in a world of pain(t?)

Bah, I see.. pick on those smaller than you. ;___; I have a picture of you!! I am not scared to doodle upon it!! :ninja: :shifty: Wait, Gareth got talent? When? :tongue: Nah, he is rather good I have seen his eldar - impressive. For space elves. I have not seen the Harelquins but then CoC has many GD painters there and well.. they scare me. That many good painters in one place. Now, if I just stick close and rub up to them... Maybe they shall pass on something... :shifty: *ahem*

I will give other colours ago, I have considered it with the characters - they need that bit extra. We shall see, otherwise I have other stuff to play about with.

KU
 

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Well nmm is alot of work and you need to do some work to get good at it, overall it has its rewards, and for me it just easier using metalics and guess what, it is your own decision. You want to put he time and the effort into it go ahead no one is forcing you. I paint with metalics, and i have good models, maybe evn great ones with metalics.
 

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King Ulrik Flamebeard said:
I will give other colours ago, I have considered it with the characters - they need that bit extra. We shall see, otherwise I have other stuff to play about with.

KU
What, you've Considered using NMM or have I missed something, what's the next step starting a confrontaion army. Well at least I can always hope on the latter one.

Anyhow, to return to topic I don't see why some people are so negative to NMM it's just another technique, it may be advanced but not impossible. And in some cases it can actually look better because it makes the metallic seem a bit more flat and not so shiny. Though it can have the other effect too.
And as for those that say that NMM only works on pictures because it can only be viewed in certain angles, well to be honest, that's not what I've seen so far, I've seen NMM that looks great in many diffrent angles.
 
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