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Discussion Starter #1
Good Afternoon Fellow gamers,

I have a question for you regarding the way ahead for my Dark Angels force. I already have a full company (3rd Company) a considerably sized Deathwing force (63 Terminators) and a growing Ravenwing force (4 Ravenwing Attack squadrons and 2 land speeder support squadrons)

I am contemplating these following ideas as far as expansions to my Unforgiven Roster:

  1. 8th Company The 8th Company is typically assault marines. But in other chapters the reserve company is also where they are trained in the use of bikes and land speeders. So I was thinking of making an army out of the 8th company of bikers using Kor'Sarro Khan as the captain and 6th company bikers, assault marines, and tactical squads in transports. Would you rage at the sight of a Dark Angel bike army that wasn't painted in Ravenwing colors (they haven't been seconded into the 2nd company yet, and are not privvy to teh secrets of the unforgiven yet) Or should I just paint the bikers in Ravenwing colors anyway?
    Does the idea of using a "Counts As" Khan raise your hackles? In case there is doubt, I would build my 8th Company totally within the confines of Codex: Space Marines. (I am not suggesting I cherry pick multiple codex books)
  2. 5th Company The 5th Company is a "Battle Company" and I was considering using Pedro Kantor (Or, a model I have converted with powerfist and storm bolter) as the basis for the Master of the Company. I would be using the Space Marine codex in the building of this army as well (Fleet Based & Drop Pod heavy). Still using Dark Angel icons, company markings, and color schemes, but expanding beyond the codex. [I can still use Sternguard as Company Veterans, Tactical Marines are Tactical Marines, and even the converted Kantor is still viable as a DA Captain]

Which of these strikes you as more fitting with the Unforgiven mythos? Which would be mroe fun to play against? which one would be less likely to generate a frothing neckbeard rant from my opponent at a local game store pick up game?

I look forward to your inputs.

Very Respectfully,
--Forsaken
 

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Fluffwise, the non-RW bikers might raise some hackles. They're your little plastic dudes, though. Paint them as you will.
 

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Congrats on the comfortable build of DA/SM. As for "play", I wouldnt care as long as you were only pulling from One codex. alot of people do a "plays as" till they have the proper minis. I've done it, so have my friends. As for tournament, they may have issues with it. they usually are a WYSIWYG setting. Any of those setups you mentioned are fine, by my standards. But had you considered doing your 8th company bikers as scout bikes instead? So that it blends with your fluff a bit easier?
I have been in a similar issue as yourself, Plenty of DA iconography, and then the SM codex comes out and shows some better combinations. I've even tried painting a hybrid color setup just to tie them both together. So I say, just go with the flow of what you feel you like, as long as the rules go with it. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Fluffwise, the non-RW bikers might raise some hackles. They're your little plastic dudes, though. Paint them as you will.
Well, The "They're my models" is a solid defense. But I am trying to get more of a consensus from my fellow hobby enthusiasts.

To me, it doesn't seem realistic that every biker in the Dark Angels chapter is a member of the 2nd company (Librarians and Chaplains certainly aren't). The Ravenwing is said to be "Numbered among the finest fast attack forces in the Imperium. Each member of the Ravenwing is an expert biker, a masterful Land Speeder pilot and a skilled gunner."

They need to hone their skills before they are inducted into that esteemed body, and I would think that the 8th company would be where they start.

As an aside, in our (semi-)scheduled apocalypse games, I would like to be able to take a "[MENTION=16981]ravenwing[/MENTION]" army [Codex Dark Angels] and a "Space Marine Biker" army [Codex Space Marines] and be able to tell them apart. And even for the local game store (since my friends have had zero problems thus far), I would like to be able to differentiate between my "Ravenwing" and "Biker" armies.

If I were to show up at the Friendly Local Game Shop, and pull out a 1500 point army, painted in Dark Angel green, with 8th company markings and the winged sword icon on their shoulder. Would you:
Roll your eyes at me?
Give me a fluff lecture?
Berate me for being a codex jumper/powergamer?
Play a game, but feel cheated that it doesn't 'fit the fluff'
Comment on the paintjob (in a postive way) and play a game?

I'm trying to get a feel for the community at large, because being in the military means my "local" group of friends changes every few months (someone transfers in, or someone transfers out)

Thank you for your time.

Very Respectfully,
--Forsaken
 

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1. As far as I know WYSIWYG does not extend to paint schemes - it's supposed to extend to what the models are armed with/what equipment they have. Paint scheme is irrelevant.

(I would comment positively if you'd painted them well - I wouldn't comment at all otherwise, after all I'm gaming not evaluating a paintjob).

2. The 8th company of the DA is made up of 10 assualt squads so they should (fluffwise) be part of the raven wing if on bikes. The DA do not follow the codex astartes in the area of organisation. So really unless it's a character model with access to that kind of war gear you shouldn't really try to represent bikers using a different company.

But.....if you did, who cares? A space marine biker remains a space marine biker for game purposes.....
(Anyone who won't allow you to play your models needs to get a dose of reality).
 

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Nothing wrong with taking non RW bikers mate.

It's not just the 2nd company that rides bikes sometimes the squads from other companies will use bike squadrons where the RW aren't available.

It totally fine, last codex had an option for this but this one didnt sadly.

Go for it I love the idea of it.

Oh and go the 3rd!
 

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It's not just the 2nd company that rides bikes sometimes the squads from other companies will use bike squadrons where the RW aren't available.

It totally fine, last codex had an option for this but this one didnt sadly.
Whilst that's true - the 8th company are assault marines and would not have access to bikes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Whilst that's true - the 8th company are assault marines and would not have access to bikes.
Fair enough. If I were to look at Codex: Space Marines, it is the 6th company that comprises the 'Bike Company'
Codex Space Marines, -pg 16.
"The 6th Company is also trained in the use of bikes, and the entire company may be deployed as bike squadrons. Similarly, squads of the 7th Company are trained to fight with land speeders and the Company commonly acts as a light vehicle reserve formation."

Since the previous codex allowed non-ravenwing bikers (They didn't have the 'jink' special rule) is the feasibility level increasing?

Very Respectfully,
--Forsaken
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Nothing wrong with taking non RW bikers mate.

It's not just the 2nd company that rides bikes sometimes the squads from other companies will use bike squadrons where the RW aren't available.

It totally fine, last codex had an option for this but this one didnt sadly.

Go for it I love the idea of it.
I remember the ravenwing had the 'jink' rule, and then regular bikers were just... regular.

And, part of me really wants to see how a Ravenwing and Bike Company (with Khan's outflank) do as a tandem force on the table top for an apocalypse game.


Oh and go the 3rd!
I know. I had a couple Tac squads sitting there and when it came to painting, I thought "I'll make them all 3rd company".

Fast forward, and now I have the entire 3rd company, and am deciding if I want another foot company, or a bike company.

Very Respectfully,
--Forsaken
 

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Since the previous codex allowed non-ravenwing bikers (They didn't have the 'jink' special rule) is the feasibility level increasing?

Very Respectfully,
--Forsaken
Yes. After re-reading both codexes. I would say there is nothing that says that companies 3 to 10 are any different to a strictly codex marine chapter. At no point does it say that all bikes are in the ravenwing. What it does say is that the ravenwing are all mounted - so this means no foot troops (quite rightly!) but it does not forbid other companies from taking bikes.

If I was you I'd use the codex space marine biker rules for these models (if different from ravenwing bikers).
 

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Fantasticmrfox said:
Yes. After re-reading both codexes. I would say there is nothing that says that companies 3 to 10 are any different to a strictly codex marine chapter. At no point does it say that all bikes are in the ravenwing. What it does say is that the ravenwing are all mounted - so this means no foot troops (quite rightly!) but it does not forbid other companies from taking bikes.

If I was you I'd use the codex space marine biker rules for these models (if different from ravenwing bikers).
Yeah that's I thought he should do also as the option is gone DA sadly.

Just use normal bikes without the RW bits.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ok. I think the normal bikes without ravenwing bits would go a long way to getting this off the ground.

Bike Captain
Bike squads; 2-4 and a tac squad in rhino; 1-2
Attack Bikes

All ravenwing are bikers. Not all bikers are ravenwing. :)

Very Respectfully,
--Forsaken
 

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That's a solid start!

Throw in some assaults squads maybe a land speeder or two and you have one he'll of an interesting army.

I have no idea how to use it, I use bikes so rarely I haven't gotten used to them yet.

A good start.
 
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