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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A house rule in my house is you on't have to have precisely the same point values as the other players. You just have to have inside a 300 point margin, because since when were opposing armies the same size? Of course, friends with less points than us protest, but it's our house...

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Slave to the flesh
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A 300 point margin? It sounds a little extreme to me, anything over 25 points over the limit (i.e 1525 in 1500 point game) will start to affect gameplay, it will probably give you enough points to give model A a power weapon or make a chaplin the three wound version.
 

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Monkey of Mystery
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samu1710 said:
DO YOU THINK THIS RULE IS A GOOD ONE, AND D'YOU THINK IT WILL REALLY EFFECT THE GAMEPLAY?
Not as a house rule no, not really a good idea. The points system is there to keep games balanced. With most games in the neighbourhood of 1500pts then a 300pt leeway is about 20% extra and that can definately swing game balance. But then- it's your house, your hobby- play it how it works for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know, but sometimes the challenge of fighting an army 20% larger than mine is very appealing, and squelching people trying to do the same thing is an attractive thought, too. Usually we keep the margin at 50pts, though.
 

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Do you actually play 300 pts underdog, or do you only make your guests do that?

I've got no problem with different pointed amies, but its kinda pointless to have that in a one-off game with standard scenarios. If you made a scenario that was easier for one player to win, but made him take fewer points- now that would be fun!
 

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LO's unofficial Jester
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Ok is this a case of everyone just bringing what models they have and playing as long as it within 300pts or litterally you saying we will play a 2000pt game and then on the day unlucky sucker I was 300pts over DIE DIE DIE. If it is the former fair enough your "guest" has a fighting chance if he brings along his entire collection if it is the latter do you ever play the person twice?

Surely the fact that they protest indicates that they aren't exactly having fun with the games you play.

I remember reading in a white dwarf a guy preparing for a tournament (actually in warhammer but same difference) and I don't remember the exact context but he did say once you get over 250pts its virtually impossible for the opponent to win.

In the second edition i was on the recieving end of a 550pt margin (or to put it another way two land raiders and a vortex grenade extra) and I got a serious beat down.

Next time you play allow your oppenent to have a 300pt margin in a normal game. If he (as I think he will) utterly owns you then then you will realise how pointless such games are. if he doesn't then he clearly isn't that good at the game why do you need such a large advantage?
My advice would be to not play mess around with the rules system.

Incidentally does your oppenent have any house rules?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Actually, I never play with more points than my adversary. You are probably right in that it's boring, and I don't find it challenging. Actually, I sometimes have 150-200 points less than my enemy, and this house rule can only be accepted by the guy with less points. I like having less points, my opponements are usually younger or weaker and I need a battle, not some brave empire soldiers trying to outdo my hordes of druchii. Even with older, more experienced, and better players I sometimes like to have less points worth of troops, just so that it is more fun. After all, they're only plastic...
 

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Well, a differance in points between armys is a fair thing. BUT only if it has been agreed on before the battle.

One of the best is get a large table (6' x 6') and around 2500 points of a shooty army (Tau/Marines) for the defenders and play Strongpoint Attack from the battles section of the BGB. Let this army take heavys as troops.

So what you say?

The only terain is in the defenders deployment zone.

Still - so what?

Then the guy who is attacking gets 4000 points of Tyranids to move on first turn. with sustaind assault on all broods. All the attacker needs to do to win is wipe the opponent out by turn 8 - if the defender has 1 model alive at that point he wins!

Its is very reminisant of LOTR The Return of the King main battle or Aliens with the sentry guns.

And TONS of fun for both sides!
 

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Son of LO
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Since when was war a fair thing? 99.99% of all realistic battles are fought with one side having a better advantage than the other. In fact, some of histories most memorable battles are ones where the odds were incredible yet the victor had the least to work with (Ia Drang valley in '65 comes readily to mind).

Honestly, if you want to have a realistic fight, then the two opponents would make a list of, say, around 1500 points, and then roll on a random table. The random table would either add or subtract up to 100 points per player. So that each player would have a random amount of points to work with.

THAT would be fair. But, then It would also be a pain in the butt to make army lists, so I like it the way it is for now.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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I think it's OK. If it is with your opponent, that is. I would however think it would be even more fair to take out a unit or two from the larger army, to make them the same size.
It doesn't take much time or effort.
I think it is a good way to give a less skilled player a handicap, like in golf, but if it is a more skilled player that has the larger army, I'm not sure it is fun anymore.

I agree war is not fair, it is in fact even worse. But Warhammer is a game and games should be fair.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah, as I think I have said, it is agreed. Also, we made the rule because real war doesn't happen that way. Yes, warhammer is only a game, and yes, it is supposed to be fair. I think all sides agreeing to it is fair, don't you?
 

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I think that such a large point count difference only has a place in challenges or in campaigns, or as a handicap so that a beginner might have a better chance. Randomly deciding that armies have a 300 point leeway in general games is just plain silly, though. That's my opinion. If all parties agree to it, then whatever, but I still think it's entirely silly.
 

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Has anyone read the intro to Imperial Armour II? They talk about playing without points limits at all. It's called narrative wargaming or something.

The idea is that for a tournament, which is an organized contest to see who is the best player/rules lawyer/cheesemaster, then of course you use points. But why do you need them when you're all friends and you're supposedly playing for fun? By taking away the points limit you can have storytelling battles, last stands, etc, like a roleplaying game, which if anyone has never played one I can tell you is great fun. If I lose when I had three sqauds against a 1500 point sized army I don't feel annoyed or let down. Of course I was going to lose! It's how you lose that counts in a game like this.

I think this style of play is certainly good for more mature players, which is probably why it's in a Forgeworld book, as only adults can afford the bloody things! I can't imagine your average younger player (many of whom seem obsessed with victory) playing a game without points. Although when I was 14 I loved the idea of last stands and heroic deaths so whatever I guess.

If you're going to play with a 300 point difference why have points at all? You could just play like "OK, Lt. Lucius and his detachment are doing recon when they stumble on a Necron tomb. If they can score three lascannon hits on this gate and close it before they are all killed then they win."
 

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Even 1 point can make a difference- a targeter, frag grenades, a pistol, a bolter, etc. One point over is how much my friend and I allow, but if someone wants more than that, then the other person gets it too. 300 points is way too much. I could get an entire squad of Grey Knights with that.


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I seem to always make lists which are 1-3 pts over whatever limit we have. Somehow it just ALWAYS happens. But then I just have to go back through it and remove a boltpistol or something from a guy or two. If I find that it is just too difficult to get rid of the pts and my whole battle plan won't work because of it then usually my opponent agrees and they go a pt over too (if they want).

But I don't really like being a little bit over because at the end of the game with hindsight I can see that the pistol made no difference at all. If it is a house rule that you can go 1pt over but not 2pts over, then what you may as well say is that you are making a 1499pt list for a 1500pt battle. Then you end up with 1500pts anyway.

Basically there is always something that can be thrown out of the list or downgraded to get rid of a few points.

**The points system is there to make it fair, not to make it realistic.**
 
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