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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for a new army to start and have been reading over different army threads. For some reason I am finding Empire to be a very appealing army. After reading the background for the different states and cities I have found that Nuln appeals the most to me. My question is what would comprise of a Nuln army and what a good 1500 points list might look like (will escalate but like starting small)?
 

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Drill Sergeant
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Sarathai is probably a better person to answer this one.

Nuln is a state like any other so they will make good use of Swordsmen and Halberdiers. However they're going to have a wider access to black powder weaponry than any other state so will have more Hand Gunners over Cross bows and will have Artillery falling out their ears!

In a competitive sense, shooting doesn't win games. It helps but combat will finish units off so you still need some combat troops in there. Either a couple of units of Knights led by priests or a big block of Halberds with Priests will be a good centre to an army. Then fill out with Hang Gunners and Cannons/Hellblasters.
 

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Any Empire list can be Nuln... but if you want to keep the flavor (besides color scheme) you will want to emphasize black powder more. Outriders, Handgunners, cannons, hellblaster, Steam Tank, etc...

That said, if you want to be somewhat competitive still consider that you will need good blocks of infantry supported by detachments and I would look at Hippogryph Cav as they are nasty. It really depends upon your point values you are playing with. Cannons are good at monster killing and character sniping but most armies can nullify your cannon by round 3 (fast flying armies round 2) so be judicious with your war machines... can you get the cannon's value back in casulties? if so take it.

Take troops that can hold the line and be steadfast... halberdeers and swordsmen (Stay away from spears) and really study the detachment rule. I have won many games with a 2 detachment counter charge combined with a stand and shoot!

The best thing about Nuln though is the color scheme... I love the black and yellow and lots of metal and grease!
 

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A good idea is maybe 50 halberds with 2 units of 20 handgunners for the detachments. 2 cannons and 2 helblasters with 2 master engineers and what ever you want for special.
Could add a steam tank from rare. I would also go for a battle wizard lord for the general and add a captain and warrior priest to the big unit of halberds to keep them going.
 

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If you have ever had sight of the turkurmen (sure thats not how its spelt) the nuln ironsiders are quality 2 blocks each with a priest and the even do ok in a pinch in close combat. Otherwise cannons morters helblasters steam tank. Even if you just take one unit get some demis they are your best damage output in Close combat. Steam tanks are great even more so it there is a horde you need to pin in place however don't get stuck against your heavy hitters and watch for metal magic.

What points level you looking at playing?

Dan
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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I run a "College Guard" army, which therefore hails from Altdorf, but it is an army with an extreme bent towards black powder weapons. It's not the most competitive Empire build that you can run, and Empire is not the most competitive army to begin with (about average, really), so it's more of an aesthetics and style choice than one which would win games. That said, this list does win a surprising number of matches, especially if it's fielded against other less-optimized forces. I wouldn't take it to a tournament, but I would certainly be comfortable fielding it against any weekly opponent.

Empire "Engineer's College Guard"
L4 Wizard, Lore of Metal
Book Ashur, Talisman of Endurance
300pts

21 Handgunners
Banner, Champ, Repeater Handgun
detachment - 10 Handgunners
309pts

21 Handgunners
Banner, Champ, Repeater Handgun
detachment - 10 Handgunners
309pts

10 Knights Inner Circle
Standard Bearer, Banner of Flame
275pts

10 Outriders
10 Outriders

6 Pistoliers
Musician
190pts
6 Pistoliers
Musician
190pts

SteamTank
SteamTank

2493/2500
--

The first thing to understand is that only cannons, mortars, Pistoliers, Outriders, and Handgunners are going to be Nuln-based. The rest of the artillery (Helstorms, Helblasters, STanks) are all from the Engineer's School, and are "on loan" to whoever needs them. Nuln is a good testing ground, as it has the Imperial Gunnery School, but they don't maintain their own STanks or anything. Rather, they have a lot of the aforementioned artillery, and that changes how your army plays.

I would say to avoid Mortars almost entirely. Cannons are good, but as Borak said, they don't win games alone, and as others have said: you need to protect them. They best way to protect your cannons (aside from good placement) is to keep a Volleygun nearby. Handgunners and Crossbows can't move&fire, so they can't turn on the spot to handle Fliers showing up on your flanks, Miners or Tomb Scopions surfacing in your deployment zone, or stuff like Wulfrik showing up in your backfield. The HVG, being a Warmachine, can swivel in place and unload all kinds of fury into those regiments, hopefully killing them or driving them off before they get to your guns. But they will reach your cannons. It just happens.

Also, if you're going to focus on shooting - focus on shooting. The advice that you should take a huge block of Swordsmen or Halberdiers is valid, but it's not exactly essential. Knights are our best Core option anyways, and the Detachment System isn't really such a huge boon. Don't mix shooting and combat detachments though, as the S&S only works if you are within command range of your Detachment, and none of our useful shooting can actually move and fire. My detachments exist because it gives me a 16-20 man S&S when I am charge, without having to spread my ranks too thin to benefit from Steadfast.
The biggest lesson to learn is that you will lose regiments. The enemy will reach your lines, and then your handgunners are just too overpriced to do anything in combat. My goal in every game is to find out where I can get the most points the most reliably, and strike there. I need to have earned virtually all of my victory points before the opponent reaches my lines, or else I need to have him so thinned out that I can have a chance to finish him.

Once he reaches my lines, it turns into a redirection and blocking game with my gunners. I will gladly march a detachment of handgunners forward to stand in front of charging Skull Crushers, because it's a small price to pay for keeping those 4 Crushers from wrecking my whole army in 2-3 turns. Also, those Crushers charge my Gunners (stand and shoot) and then spend another 2 turns out of combat (my turn, then they reform, my turn, then they charge) - I can plan on where they'll be and make sure that all of my guns are either pointed there, or any units of any value are well and truly out of dodge.
If a unit is sufficiently weakened, I can send the STanks and Knights into combat and finish it off. If it's not softened up, I can stand a STank in front of it and keep the regiment pinned in place. I'm not scared of charging small units with my larger Handgunner parents, because if I can win the combat and break their Steadfast, I might be able to kill them in a turn, rather than spending the rest of the game whittling them with shooting.

In short: if you play a gunline, don't think that you'll stay out of close combat, and be prepared to be on your toes as soon as the enemy reaches your army.

For playing Nuln, if you go truly Nuln, you're going to have lots and lots of Gunners, probably fewer STanks, and more immobile "bulls-eye-painted-on-it" artillery. Use it to your advantage. Put the artillery on the corner, put a HBVG in there, and maybe a small regiment of guns. Then field the rest of your army on the opposite corner. Now they either go for your artillery and split their army, or they go for your army and leave your artillery behind as refused victory points. You're more likely to have some Knights, and you need to use them to charge and run down enemy blocks. Pistoliers are good for sending into a fight as well.

Finally, don't take more than your minimum Core, even in Handgunners. Once your minimums are met, start getting lots of Outrider regiments. They're all around better, point-for-point. Even firing volleys, they're just as accurate as HGs, they have an armor save, and they can lay down 3x shots for less than 3x points (if I'm remembering my math here). You don't need to give them Barding, and you don't need to run them up with a Vanguard move either, although I typically nudge them forwards if my opponent isn't deploying "toes on the line" across from my Handgunners.

Lore of Metal or Lore of Shadows are both good too. Metal for dealing with high armor saves that will foil our shooting (and regen), and Shadows for debuffing Toughness (helps the shooting) and debuffing Strength/WS (helps keep us alive in CC).
 

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Love the list cap why no baltherzar? I love out riders with barding they are actually still a little less than 3 hand Gunners. I have actually taken to these guys 6 wide 2 deep giving me 36 shots and I take 2 such units, a block of nuln ironsiders with priest crown of command enchanted shield and 2 detachments of 10 standard hand Gunners and some demis and a level 4 metal pistols steam tanks. Can be very effective but can also disappear quickly but as cap says don't be afraid to sacrifice a small unit for the larger whole.
 

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Also don't fall for the long rifles, with all the modifiers they will not kill characters.
 

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Love the list cap why no baltherzar?
First, because I'm actually not a huge fan of using named characters in my lists. My group is mostly "old guys" who remember the days when special characters were 'permission only' models. I liked that rule, actually, because the characters were a lot more fun and they felt truly unique (rather than every Elf army under the sun being worthy of the Everqueen). Anyways, unless a character is just too good to ignore, or is a requirement to field a specific kind of list (like Throgg for a "Troll Horde" WoC army), then I'd rather stick to vanilla characters.
Secondly, because Balthasar doesn't really add anything, and he's a terrible character. He's Flying MonCav, so he can't join any units, he's not a Loremaster, so he doesn't get any extra/special spells, he's got MR, but no Wardsave in combat, and a +2 to Cast.
My character can join my units for a 2++ LoS! against shooting (if it even hits him), only has a 5+ Ward but it's against everything, and he has a +1 to Cast and to Dispel. He's also 6 Handgunners cheaper than Gelt.

And also, why do you like the Ironsides so much? They're just Handgunners in armor. Yeah, they look cool and they're Nuln Fluffy, but they don't get anything special to make them worth the extra cost. Falk's only advantage is the rerolling 1's for his regiment, but you can get that from the Metal Mage anyways, without taking a ~100pt special character from a supplement book.

Also don't fall for the long rifles, with all the modifiers they will not kill characters.
Meh. You can do alright if you spam them, but I agree that they're not worth it. Definitely not worth it on Handgunner champs, that's for sure. In fact, if it weren't a fluff/modeling decision, I wouldn't even have champions in my HGs.
Putting them on Outrider champions though, you can still hit things fairly reasonably (BS5). They'll naturally hit on a 2+, so you're looking at:
-1 for Sniper
-1 for Range
in most cases, and that's just a 4+ now. Take two of them, and you will score a hit, with usually a 50/50 to Wound. Cut that in half for a 4+ Ward, and yeah - you're not getting anywhere with it. However, they're not for killing BSBs and Generals. They're for killing off those irritating secondary characters, like scroll caddies and such.
Again - not really worth it, but not necessarily useless.

Also, don't take Master Engineers. They're also not worth it. You're going to have lots of guns, so maybe they'll do better, but generally I'd rather just have another cannon or something, rather than a handful of rerolls. My army is themed around the Egineers College, and I don't even have any Engineers...
 

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He is a lore master of metal?! Though I get what your saying about named characters I do like things to be unique.

I like armour and they are only 2 pts more with a priest than can do ok in combat. I just like multi purpose units the barded outriders are good to flank charge and break rank bonus to we all have our tastes I guess. Tbh it's not often I run my nuln plays to much like my tau like a bit of variation lol
 
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