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Airborne
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Of Valkyries and Vendettas

To kick things off, you can apply whatever title you like to this post. “Tactica” might work, but in many respects “Rant” would be more appropriate. I was prompted by various online sources and local gamers who all seem to have completed missed several facets of both vehicles that have become common sights on the table. For those of you wondering what my credentials are for such a post, I currently run a Vendetta heavy IG list and did a good bit of playtesting with both Vehicles. The end result can be found here: http://www.librarium-online.com/for...s/184340-blackhawk-down-ig-2k-tournament.html

Lets do this in the form of FAQs:

What should I equip a Valkyrie with?
Rocket Pods. The hull Lascannon is a waste, your primary goal with this vehicle is making infantry take saves and the Las shot will just get tossed on the least Pertinent model possible if it even hits. The Heavy Bolters are a debatable weapon. For me, the rocket pods are the weapons you want to bring to bear and if your getting close enough to use them you generally want to be moving over 6” as often as possible. Conversely though, they cost almost nothing and keep you from having to get too close to threaten the enemy. In the end I think the negligible point investment really says you can’t go wrong either way. If you even think of Hellstrikes you clearly haven’t even read this units entry in the codex.

What should I equip a Vendetta with?
There’s only one option (if you thought Hellfury missiles just hit yourself once for me) for this unit. For me this option is almost a litmus test for determining if someone has properly read the Vendetta entry. If you read it correctly you’ll realize that this vehicle will always, where possible, be moving 6” or less. With that in mind, the heavy bolters are 6 extra shots for next to no points for doing something you would be doing anyways. It almost free bullets. Many out there in internetland and your FLGS will give you the classic “it shoots at tanks” line. While true, Vendettas usually have to transition to shooting infantry around turn 3-4 (unless you’re just really sucking at destroying enemy armor). Also you have cute armies like Tyranids where heavy bolters can hurt anything in the list. If the option cost more points I would be all for never using it, but it’s one of the single most efficient ways to get extra bullets in the entire codex.

Which one is better?
Initially my army featured Valkyries. I saw unique situations where the Valkyrie would excel and wanted to employ it. Ultimately I turned to Vendettas all around. The Vendetta can engage a lot of targets the Valkyrie can’t, but the Valkyrie can’t engage anything that a Vendetta can’t. The Vendetta can both pop a transport and mow down the models inside at greater range. It’s almost like GW’s cruel Joke that the Vehicles are nearly identical point-wise, use the same model, yet one is just clearly better. The Vendetta didn’t just steal the Valkyrie’s thunder, it mugged it in a dark alley for its thunder and stole its wallet in the process.

With all of this in mind, the assumption of the rest of this rant is that you’re using Vendettas with heavy bolters.

Should I outflank or deepstrike Vendettas?
It’s hard to keep the laughter at bay long enough to give a serious response to this question. I’m positive there are those out there that have dodgy plan involving a random IG unit using one of the two special deployment rules in a Vendetta. I’ll stop you now. Nothing you can possibly do with that infantry unit can even come close to equaling the firepower you’ve lost in the most crucial turns of the game. That’s a lot of early game transport-popping goodness that you’re missing just to try some hit or miss attack with an infantry unit that will likely die in the process. If you want to outflank some infantry put them in a chimera and take Creed. If you want to suicide melta something use a 5x man Stormtrooper unit. Don’t waste this amazing vehicle on a dodgy tactic.

What is an Alpha Strike?
*sigh*, it’s truly distressing this epic tactic is not as feared as it should be. Any force containing Vendettas should have at least 1-2 vet squads with demolitions just to threat this tactic if you get first turn (and only if you get first turn). By the Numbers:

1. Scout the vendettas with vets 12.1” away from enemy vehicles
2. In your first turn deploy the units, move and multi-charge with meltabombs on the vehicles that haven’t moved yet

If used properly this tactic, for all practical purposes can end the game on the top of 1. Your opponents can adjust to this tactic by placing squads out around their vehicles. What a strange coincidence, you were trying to destroy those squads anyways and now he’s placing them in a great position for you hit them with everything. It’s a win-win situation as you don’t have to commit to the alpha strike until after you’ve seen where he’s deploying, so you get the nice creamy infantry center either way and only have a 1in 6 chance of failure (seizing the initiative).

How many should I use?
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Minimum of 2, 3 is best. Face facts. Other things in your army can cover the areas the rest of your fast attack slots excel at. Nothing, however even approaches the efficiency of a Vendetta. All-Vendetta lists tend to be more first turn dependent than mech IG and require some more finesse, so in general I wouldn’t advise that approach, but an IG army without any Vendettas is missing easily one of the best vehicles in the game. It has respectable armor, is a Fast Skimmer, comes with 5 weapons (REF: Heavy Bolters), Transports infantry, can execute an Alpha Strike and has free Extra Armor. It’s like GW is trying to give you a hint without printing in big bold letters “You want to buy this $60 kit”
 

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durus
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Excellent post, I couldn't agree more.

I find that if I get second turn, I will outflank mine. That is why I take an Astropath.;)

A sense of humor to boot!

The Vendetta didn’t just steal the Valkyrie’s thunder, it mugged it in a dark alley for its thunder and stole its wallet in the process.
This one made me stand up and laugh.:rotfl:
 

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Yep, I'm with you here. I haven't yet had much experience with valkyries/vendettas, but you've given me a lot to think about. You're perfectly right in saying that these are some of the best vehicles in the game.

The only problem I have with the vendetta is as well as buying a valkyrie set, I've got to either do a conversion, or fork out for the forgeworld conversion kit.
 

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Its so true, with all the above. Lately, I've been leaving my vendettas away. Not because they don't do their job, but because they do their job all too well, and my opponents find it not in the least bit fun to play against.

Against eldar, its not as cut and paste, unfortunately. Any eldar player going up against a known vendetta player can overload on enough wave serpents to counter any vendetta action plan, and that's not including any other falcon, prism tanks, wraith lords, or war walkers that they might have. Sure the vendetta could probably pop a wave serpent (though certainly not a guarntee), but the rest of the armour will open up, and the vendetta is in for a world of hurt.

Vendettas are fantastic, they aren't God units, but they're pretty damn close.
 

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I'd be amused to see a list with 9 vendetta's and allied DH. If I recall correctly their HQ's can take a bit of wargear that allows them to make a ld test to go first. It would be a very scary first turn. I like the unit because it can't be ignored, and it's cheaper than your battle tanks.
 

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Nine-Vendetta rush lists are a paper tiger. You can shut them down with a line of infiltrators placed on your 18" line, another line of troops at 12", with your tanks at 6". This fouls up the Vendettas' scout moves and make them deploy their troops via grave-chute, with bad things happening if they intersect your troops or tanks.

If you have Vendettas of your own you can also just scout first, fouling up their scout move as they'll have to stay 12" from any of your units. And the Vendetta is a mighty big unit.
 

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While iit's not point effective to go beyond 3. I was going more for funny. I have to agree that the models are frakking huge. I wonder if it would be possible to make an effective "air cav" list though.
 

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I have played against an air-cav list before, and it was an 'interesting' experience. By that I mean I got flattened, but I was using an army based upon infantry so it wasn't really surprising. Ah well, now I know better.
 

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durus
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I've played against an Air-Cav list with my Grey Knight - Sisters list at my last 2k Tourney. I butchered it with 3 TLLC from my Landraider and Dread and my Multimelta and TLAC from my Crusader. He also had an all Valkerie list which would have done better with some Vendetta's.

This shows that while they are awesome vehicles, Valks/Vendetta's aren't "broken". Eldar Waveserpents are way harder to kill. The real strength with V/V's is the scout move and troops they can carry.

You can counter an Air-cav list with deployment tactics. Keep your whole army in the center of the board, making him go long range right away if he wants to drop off troops, and where you will have support from other units. I use this same tactic against Mech Eldar where like Air-Cav lists divide and conquer will win you the day. Also, if you know you are playing and Air-Cav list and Office of the Fleet is a great addition to stretch out when he comes in on reserve
 

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Airborne
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
It's ironic that I linked to a batrep in the first post where my Vendetta-heavy IG levelled 3 opponents and lost to a 4th because of scenario.

The army needs first turn more than most, no real way around it just because vehicles not shooting in the first 2 turns is a problem and a half. Somehow people are thinking infantry is what the army is based on, while the infantry is really plan B. If the opportunity presents they conduct and Alpha Strike, otherwise they just chill in their transports until the enemy gets close. Some armies can't handle Vendettas, against mech guard they can kinda get by without adressing them, but against only Vendettas it becomes painfully apparent how many armies out there just can't deal with it. Half of an average game my opponents spend fighting 840pts with their 2000pts and losing, a true statement on how capable the Vendettas are.

Short answer, yes it's viable, has a few nemesis builds like any other armies, needs first turn more than most, but can still steamroll many armies.
 

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Master of Those Damn Durable Swords
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Good article all around. Being an old hand at Valks (been using them since IA III) I agree with almost all of what you say. Personally I'm one of the old heads that says HB sponsons on a Vend is a waste, but I can see it's uses. I've almost begun experimenting with the LC on a Valk. While they pwn infantry with the pods, the multi-las always left me wanting more. It barely could dent a rhino and majority of the time I'd be lucky to down a trooper with it. I'm trying the LC more to see how it fits and works. Almost like an emergency "just in case" type scenario. Though I fully admit 9/10 times its useless...kinda like how I feel about HBs on Vendettas :)

Since I use a pure Air-Cav force, I typically vary my deployment style. I pack in an Astropath and an Officer of the Fleet, an sometimes it feels good outflanking my entire army, though the merits of Scout turbo boosting is not lost on me. For me it truly comes down to my opponent and mission. For armies like Tau or Mech guard, I'll start 2/3 of my army on the board to start to get the Alpha Strike. For armies that can vary their deployment means (Daemons, SM in particular) I will adjust as necessary, maybe starting 1/3 of my army on the board, 2/3 outflanking.

Currently I run a 1/2 ratio of Valks to Vends. 6 Skimmers gives me plenty of maneuver and versatility, coupled with 5 Vet squads and a CCS loaded to the teeth and it can be a nasty surprise. Most games end as close draws/wins/loses. I've only truly had two real nasty loses. 1 was to Mech Eldar and was due to some poor deployment decisions I made early on (1 only scouted 2 Vends and had the rest arrive in reserve...I should have had 4 vends scout move and the 2 valks come in reserve...oh well), and the other loss was to 'Nids. Deployment killed me again because I decided to outflank everything (don't ask me why...seemed like a viable option at the time), and needles to say I go torn to shreds.
 

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Airborne
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I once thought as you did, then came to realization that when you only have 6 vehicles and 3 potential targets your vehicles have to be able to kill anything they hit. Hence Vendettas with Heavy bolters all around. Valkyries will always be trash against armor, but for next to no points you can give Vendettas heavy bolters and they can slaughter infantry as well.
 

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First things first Mastershake, it is a great post.

Personaly I prefer the Vendetta because my Army List lacks valuable Anti-Armour firepower and this new Gunship seems to be a great addition. Maybe if before the new codex had I assembled my Heavy Weapons after Lascannons and Missiles Launchers I could take the Valkyrie for its 'other side of the coin' firepower compared to the V...for Vendetta...

...and to all respect to Norse Mythology's hot babes that stormed the skies and took the bodies of us Noobs that fell in battle...it was Hugo Weaving as Edward Dante, clad in a modern Rennaissance Ninja outfit with a Robin Hood attitude that beat the 'V' contest of how to paint my Gunship...

By the way...why is that girl on Viking Outfit on that flying horse looking angrily at me?
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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If 1st turn is really so important, then you really should consider allying yourself an Inquisitor w/Emperor's Tarot (and possibly mystics or warriors w/meltas+plasmas).
 

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Out of curiosity if i was wanting to run a list with 9 flyers what would be the best combination? I was thinking about running 2 Squadrons of Valkyries and 1 of Vendettas and hae the Valkyries carry my infantry with the Vendetta Squadron picking off armor, just want to know what you would recommend/or do with your list.
 
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