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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all!!!

Thanks for all the great threads, discussion and advice, you guys are all awesome :D

Played a bunch of games in 8th with O&G now and I'm pretty attuned to their strength and weaknesses. In the process of moving to another army that is more competitive, but before I do so I would like to smash some face with my first loves... the lovely greenies.

Been losing like crazy lately, problems being as follows:

Traffic Jams: Large base sizes + many units + crappy ranged game = getting 300ed every game. I keep getting bottlenecked and having massive deployment issues.

Long Term Game: My main blocks (savages and blorcs) loss of +1 strength after turn 1 of combat coupled with crappy initiative means im usually bowing out before the enemy is destroyed. I can take most of the things I get beaten by but when you couple this problem with getting bottlenecked theres no hope.

Animosity: Every green's pet peeve. I included a blorc bsb to get rid of it on savages but that wont stop my wolfies from being idiots at the wrong moment almost every game.

Death Star Destroyed: My last game against lizardmen, I destroyed his entire army minus main block with slann and he destroyed nothing but my main block of savages with gen, bsb, and lvl 4. He also took a couple of chariots. He ended up winning... grrrr! I just dont see any other way to spend core that is more viable.

In any case, after said losses I've devised this: What say you experts?

Savage Lord - 235
- Sword of +3 Attacks
- Charmed Shield
- Strength Pot

Savage lvl 4 - 295
- Head
- D. Scroll
- Trink of +1 Magic Resist

Blorc BSB - 145
- Tally of 5+ Ward (easier to remember)

39 Savages (exactly 7 wide x 6 deep with chars) - 449
- Flag
- Muse
- 2X Choppa

7 Wolves - 91
- Spears
- Shields
- Short Bows

6 Wolves - 78
- Spears
- Shields
- Short Bows

20 Night Gobbos - **
- Short Bows

30 Blorcs - 385
- Flag
- Muse
- Flag of Re-roll first failed LD test

Boar Chariot - **

6 Trolls - ***

5 Bolt Throwers - ***

2 Pump Wagons - 120
- Spiky Rollers (2D6 Str 5 impact hits)

2 Lobbers - ***

Before my last game I had an all forward army. Looked good on paper and seemed like it would completely overwhelm the opponent. It didn't primarily because of the traffic jam listed above. I threw in a bunch of artillery to help the problem. May force them to come to me a little and even a small chance of doing damage with our crappy artillery is better than the diminishing return effect of a full forward army. I also threw a nice little blender combo on the lord, that should tip combat res more in my favor and make any challengers regret things....
Do you guys have any more pointers? Any help would be awesome.
Thanks! :)
 

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Drill Sergeant
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I'd look at having more than one Death Star to be be honest mate. Only having one death dealing unit is just giving your opponent a huge opportunity to destroy your army in one hit. So, grab 2 or even 3 BIG threats so not all your eggs are in one basket.

Black Orcs, Maybe bump these guys up to 36? Maybe even chuck your Warboss in here so not all your characters are in one unit?

Trolls, up these to 8 or 12 strong for a SERIOUSLY killy unit. A unit of 12 is just over 400pts which, at this level, is pretty cheap for the pain they bring. Not even Khorne Halberd Warriors will beat up a Similar point Troll unit.

Maybe swap the Orc Chariot for a pair of Goblin ones? Run them singular to help clear away chaff and add a punch to the second round of combats.

To find points maybe ditch a Lobba or two and ditch that 20 man unit of Goblins. It's doing nothing for you really. AS for stopping yourself being bottlenecked. Unfortunately that's pretty hard to do with an army like ours. We can go supper Elite (like yours actually) but even then we still have loads of units and/or support units.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
[MENTION=30990]Lord Borak[/MENTION]

As usual, amazing advice man thanks so much!

I've been toying with the idea of moving the warboss to another unit or even throwing him on a carpet or wyvern for a nice mobile hammer. Problem is then he loses his free 5+ ward and I would have to rearrange his build, wont be as killy anymore :( I also want him to have the free 4+ magic resist for cheese monsters that spam spirit leech on LD 9 and 10. I have a player in my group thats just brutal with high elf filth lists. Believe hes planning to play tyrion with dragon princes our next game. You're absolutely right though I have to think of a way to create 2 massively dangerous units that can last. Perhaps I may throw a big boss in the blorc unit... I'll definitely up the blorcs and the trolls!

You're right about the lobbers they're useless. I might ditch them to make the points for all these changes.

Thanks alot!!!! :D
 

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i am da Wahhchief
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I'm gonna go and say the same that has been said already xD

I have exactly the same problems you named, the trafficjam is a big problem that prevents me from bringing too many M4 units. It gives the opponent the chance to take on my army, 1 unit at a time.
Terrain ain't helpin and the Leadership bubble really ain't helpin!

the horde armysetup is also why i am a big Doom Diver fan. It can shoot blind and be just as accurate as shooting straight. The only dfference is when you roll a hit, but then you still get to adjust it by 3+D6" in any direction. (even their misfire chart is forgiving, you might even get to shoot with a misfire! ) fire a DD from the top of a hill and you will have serious trouble when trying to miss :p

i think Black orcs could really use the help of a character, while the savages could be ok without one. They simply have more attacks.
6 Trolls is deceptive, because they often seem to work just fine. Turn it up into 8 as Lord B said and they go from 'just fine' to a SERIOUS threat to any player.

If you turn the wolf units into 2x 5 or 6 + musician, you save about 30-40 points without losing much of the unit's effecctivveness. im gonna go and say replace (several) bolt throwers for Divers. Bolt throwers are good, but right now they are 5 more cars, part of the trafficjam.
 

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Drill Sergeant
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Aye, the Leadership bubble is a real handicap I find. All our units need that LD9/10 which is why I ended up ditching my smaller support units and just make a few blocks BIG. Everything else that's on the Flanks is either Immune to Psychology or chariots. It kinda helps with the Bottle neck thing but even then, I've so many Chariots and monsters I tend to get clogged up when it comes to helping out the main battle line.

Maybe hold back (HERESEY!) your main battle line whilst your flankers get further ahead. Then they can turn back on the flanks/rears of your opponents?

[MENTION=49261]Novos[/MENTION] How about giving your Savage Shaman the Fencers Blades? That gives him WS10 and 3 Attacks at str5 which isn't shoddy by a wizards standards. If he gets off fists of Gork you can go to town on Daemon Princes (str9 first round :D). It means he needs to be 'baby sat' less by other characters too. As for a 'killy' Warboss, I tend to build mine as defensive as possible mainly because I rely so heavily on his LD of 9 (Trolls/goblins) so give that a thought if you are fielding LD reliant units. Giving him a 4+ Ward and some MR (Spell Shield?) or the Black orcs the Lichbone pennant should make you fairly durable to direct damage spells.

Speaking of Direct damage spells. Give the FAQ a read. Page 10 in magenta. If I'm reading that right it means if you're within 12" of your general you get to use his LD9 to ward off spirt leech. Maybe chuck the Banner of Discipline on your generals unit?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Again can't thank you guys enough for all the great pointers :D:D:D:D:beer:


[MENTION=34534]Digger[/MENTION]


Great points! Im trying to make room for a character in the blorc unit. Maybe I'll drop a couple of bolts to make it happen. I do still need my general in savages to get the free ward save for the blender kit I gave him. As for the wolfies Im already at min core, I would have to boost the savages for that. I might play around with it :p


[MENTION=30990]Lord Borak[/MENTION]

I had it on him initially, but then I don't get the scroll :( I find its insanely important for the odd convocation or purple sun that will go off. I love the idea of having a train wrecker if I get fists off in CC but for now I think the scroll is a bit more important. Blender lord should be able to take anything down with his 8 strength 6 attacks first round and 8 strength 8 attacks second round after I quaff the potion.

You're probably right about the warboss though, he is a tad soft with nothing but the 5 up ward and the charmed shield. I haven't had problems keeping him alive yet, if that begin I will rekit. I already have MR trink on the shammy, will it stack if I give him the spell shield? LOVE the idea of the liche bone on the blorcs I think I'll make room for that. Also if you're right about the FAQ I'm going to do backflips!!! Thats a huge boon to me as all of my important characters will be in gen's range :D

One more thing, how do you play your trolls? If lets say 12 would you go 4x3 or 3x4? If 8?



Thanks again guys!
 

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Drill Sergeant
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I had it on him initially, but then I don't get the scroll :( I find its insanely important for the odd convocation or purple sun that will go off. I love the idea of having a train wrecker if I get fists off in CC but for now I think the scroll is a bit more important. Blender lord should be able to take anything down with his 8 strength 6 attacks first round and 8 strength 8 attacks second round after I quaff the potion.

Aye, that's pretty nasty!! Just make sure you have a champion in there to keep him away from challenges. Any challenge built character will probably kill him before he gets to swing :( Scrolls are good, it's a shame you don't have a cheap gobbo shaman to dump it on. Their Sig spell and mushroom dice are awesome I find. If you find 75pts left over go for a NG scroll caddy.


You're probably right about the warboss though, he is a tad soft with nothing but the 5 up ward and the charmed shield. I haven't had problems keeping him alive yet, if that begin I will rekit. I already have MR trink on the shammy, will it stack if I give him the spell shield? LOVE the idea of the liche bone on the blorcs I think I'll make room for that. Also if you're right about the FAQ I'm going to do backflips!!! Thats a huge boon to me as all of my important characters will be in gen's range :D

MR doesn't stack I'm afraid, you use the highest you've got. You could give the Warboss MR1, I think he has enough room on his Item allowance, and give the Bl'orcs the banner of disciple. LD10 should put two fingers up to spirit leech. As for the FAQ, I'm pretty sure it works both ways and not just for the caster. See what your opponents make of it (I think it's a load of rubbish, unmodified should mean unmodified, but there we have it!)

One more thing, how do you play your trolls? If lets say 12 would you go 4x3 or 3x4? If 8?

I always go 4 wide. 4 wide, 2 deep gives you 24 Attacks and 4 Stomps!! That's enough to trash most enemy death stars (Khorne Halberd Warriors/White Lions etc). Obviously be careful of fire, but even then, if you go for a 12 strong Troll unit that enemy unit is in for a world of hurt regardless. I was toying with having TWO 12 man units of trolls in my Orc list yesterday ;)
:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
[MENTION=30990]Lord Borak[/MENTION]

Awesome advice as usual.

EEEK! I just figured out dispel scrolls and shrunken heads are both arcane items!!! I can't have it anyway :( Back to fencers blades. That means no dispel... Maybe I might drop all artillery for a gobbo scroll bunker and see what happens. If a purple sun goes off with irresistable im screwed anyway and if im facing someone whos running death I'll just pool all my dispels for leech and purple sun. Anything else will only cause minimal damage anyway. Perhaps scrolls are overrated?

12 Strong unit of trolls sounds deadly. I upped my unit to 9 but im considering buying 3 more. It'll be worth it!
 

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Drill Sergeant
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Generally, with Magic, I find that if someone really wants to get something through they'll 6 dice it anyway. In which case you're simply taking a Scroll to stop the times when they don't get IF. I take no magic and no Scrolls with my WoC force and it does just fine (although WoC are entire different kettle of fish). Although a cheap gobbo scroll caddy isn't exactly expensive it IS the same price as a Pump Wagon with a roller and spores which could wreck a unit in combat, or two Trolls.... choices choices....
 
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