Over confidence is a weakness

1307 Views 13 Replies 9 Participants Last post by HowlingBanshee, Feb 22, 2006

Lt. Bone Saw

Discussion Starter · Feb 4, 2006

My friend plays as Hordes of Chaos, and seems to think that they are the ultimate army. We recently got on the topic of him fighting Bretonnians and he said he would totally crush them. I was not so quick to agree because I have seen the rulebook for Bretonnians and they are impressive. I don’t want him to be over confident and get stomped and then not want to play them ever again so I figured I would go to the true holders of knowledge on the matter and find out what Bretonnian player that has fought against a hordes army thinks.

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Deathguard1337

· #2 · Feb 4, 2006

Pfff overconfidence is a weakness for sure. It causes people to underestimate you and make mistakes its allways been like that in gaming and real warfare. Everyone thinks that just because they got the best armor or their guys are the best trained, they are the best qand will win. This is of course a load of BS. Who defeated the mighty roman empire? a bunch of screaming half naked guys. Who defeated the nazi war machine on the eastern front? A bunch of conscripts. The point is that tactics will allways win chances are he will just try to bum rush you and brets are going to be much faster so just hold up his guys with peasants then come from behind.

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userpaladin

· #3 · Feb 4, 2006

exept that the romans were already in pieces and hitler was crazy...

hords of chaos are pretty tough, your best chance is using a cheesed out lance (thats at least two characters) of grail knights and a bunch of questing knights. chaos armies don't have many units so the knight bolt thrower will just take out his units one at a time. just have lots of magic defence and anti hero.

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Lt. Bone Saw

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 6, 2006

He thinks that chaos knights are way better than any of the nights Bretonnians can send his way, but I am inclined to think that even chosen chaos knight would have a difficult time with grail knights, if not some of the other knights in a Bretonnian force.

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strewart

· #5 · Feb 7, 2006

Fully upgraded chosen knights could beat grail knights.. Though we have a bit of an advantage with the ward, and it would probably depend a bit on who got to charge.

With the armour and stats of normal chaos troops it would indeed be easy to get overconfident. If you played like a 'typical' Bret player, all (mostly) knights and just charged forward it might be close. It sounds like, with his confidence, if you took the trouble to take some mounted yeomen to get to the flanks of chaos units and hit with lances at the front you would wipe the floor with him.

Also, trebuchets should help make short work of his chunky units.

Let him get belted into the dirt, then tell him what he did wrong. If he is a good general then he won't spit the dummy, he'll step back and think about it and hopefully do better next time.

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Lt. Bone Saw

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 7, 2006

Grail knights charge the front and Pegasus knights the flank, he said the chosen knights would still win. I can’t believe that there is no unite that is that strong, is there?

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Courvein

· #7 · Feb 8, 2006

Does that unit have a lord in it? How big is this unit of his?

I really don't see how that could stand up to a charge of GKs, esp a full lance of 9... that's 15 WS5 S6 attacks, not counting horses. Also, don't forget that Brets charge 16, so you have the advantage in range against him. I think he's overconfident... hit him with that lance and we'll see who's laughing at the end.

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Lt. Bone Saw

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 9, 2006

I tried telling him that not even he was that good at rolling dice.

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Domstrae

· #9 · Feb 13, 2006

Well of course GK's arent great in a toe to toe fight with chosen chaos knights with marks but evidently he doesnt appriciate what the lance does for you. Try and get a rank bonus with CK's , now thats the most expensive +1 CR you'll ever buy. While you on the other hand, arent paying too too much for a +1 or +2 rank bonus. Not to mention all of yours would still get to fight and his wouldnt. Then the beauty afterwards is he cannot retaliate with the whole five (minimum) he brought but your entire frontage will.

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Lurch

· #10 · Feb 14, 2006

What you all seem to be forgetting is that chaos knights are a core choice in a mortal army, he can have as many units as he wants to fit in. Grails knights are rare, although if grail knights do get the charge in they will kill a unit of chosen due to the volume of hits. Also the minimum size for a chaos knight unit is 4.

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Domstrae

· #11 · Feb 14, 2006 (Edited)

Nobodies forgetting that. Just exactly how many units of these 50+ point knights do you think someone can afford to bring? Even grail relique can hold of CK's if done right. A healthy block of QK's with a good CR bsb could wipe them out just as easily. Dont get me wrong CK's are probably the best knight you can buy (depending on what you count those consider those mounted ogres) but you cant honestly expect that to be enough agaisnt the army whose forte is knights.

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Lurch

· #12 · Feb 14, 2006

Chosen knights are less than 50 points, normal ones are less than 35 ( am I breaking any rules about stating points costs here? ). Not much can take a charge from a tooled up lance of Brettonian knights, just don't let the chaos knights charge as that will end up in tears

If used properly chaos knights can wreak havoc on anything, the handy thing being that they are strength 5 all the time rather than just on the charge.

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Rameusb5

· #13 · Feb 17, 2006

Overconfidence in your army can be a weakness, but on the other hand, I've lost many a game with Bretonnia because I WASN'T confident and didn't throw caution to the wind and charge.

This really only applies to Bretonnia because of the way the army is designed (charge, charge, and charge some more), but I've found if you simply throw your units headlong into the fray, and send your General in against the most nasty model in the opponent's army, you will more often than not end up the victor.

Every time I try to out-think or out-manuever my opponent with Bretonnia, my army somehow gets scattered all over the map, and I get whittled down to nothing.

My advice for newer Bretonnian Generals is build a few large units of your cheaper knights, and several smaller units of your better knights, and charge them headlong at the enemy's most powerful unit. Get as much contact with the enemy as you can. They can't countercharge you if you've already killed them.

As for the whole "who's troopers are better," issue, I think that's a pretty subjective arguement. Remember that BOTH a unit of Grail Knights OR a unit of Chaos warriors could be beaten by a measly unit of 20 goblins if they are charged on the flank (Phantom combat resolution is king in this game).

Personally, I'd rather have the Knight Errant or the Maurader horseman (Both VERY good cavalry units for their price) than the over-expensive Grail or Chosen Chaos knight.

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HowlingBanshee

· #14 · Feb 22, 2006

Fully upgraded chosen knights could beat grail knights.. Though we have a bit of an advantage with the ward, and it would probably depend a bit on who got to charge

Hardy the grail knights get a 5+ ward save against them.... although the chaos knights keep thier efectiveness after the first turn of combat they will not get the chance... grail knights charge further because they have nooby horses that ignore barding.. the army would be more balanced if they had 14" charge like everybody else. and because chaos kinights are so pricy u wud noit have many, the grail knights would probaly kill them all on the charge if not the chaos knights would certainly break. Believe me im a chaos player i know...

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