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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, im starting a new army, chaos space marines(most likely nurgle-based or iron warriors). I want these to look very good, even though my painting skills arent the greatest, and i think paint is fairly important for getting a good look and good color to your models.

I'd like to know what other people think of using non-games workshop or vajello paints. The main reason for this would be money, $2.50-$3 a paint bottle is quite a bit, especially considering how many different colors i will need for painting chaos space marines. I've looked around and found some decent acrylic "craft" paint at a store called ACMOORE , which is a pretty respectable craft /paint supplies store where im from.

link to acrylic paint brand: A.C. Moore - Ceramcoat Acrylic Paint 2 Ounces-Midnight Blue/Opaque

Has anyone tried non-GW/Vajello paints on their models, and with what success?

My other dilemma would be finding quality brushes. I've found at the same store some very nice (looking) paint brushes of varied sizes. The smallest is very tiny, probably the size of a safety pin tip, and the largest probably the size of a shoe-string end.

A.C. Moore - Soft-Grip Pure Sable Detail & Round Brushes-Size 5/0

they all have different sizes, different ways of labeling size, round/flat/blunt/sharp , etc. Just have no idea what would do well. again, the reasons are monetary, $14 for 3 brushes from GW? no thanks. I'm positive ACMOORE has similar brushes, i just need to know which to get that would be good for model painting. The brushes i linked are only $3 for 2 brushes!

Link to GW's paint brush set: Games Workshop Online Store — Citadel Paint Brush Set


Also, any other supplies i should grab while im at this store?

My list so far is:

Wood Glue
Elmer's Glue
Corkboard(if i can find it)
Hardboard(for terrain basing and other applications)
Foamboard
Ruler
Xacto knife
Needle-nose pliers with nice cutting blade between plier mandibles
small brass rods
Anything that looks like it could be used for nurgle-fication(im planning on playing a death guard army)
Acrylic spraypaint white and black for basecoating
Super glue
Small bag of sand
Sawdust?(not sure, might be nice for making a gaming table or something?)
putty?
green stuff(what is the real name for this stuff? 2 part epoxy?)


anything im missing?:?

thanks a lot for any help you can offer ;Y
 

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A bit of alright.
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The paint that you're looking at will have a very matt finish, it really probably will need varnishing. It'll also be rather thick so will need quite a bit of thinning.
Also I don't like the look of those brushes, the centre of balance looks to be in an odd posistion but that's just a personal thing really. The metal bit of the brushes looks rather chunky so you will have to be doubly careful not to get paint on it. I use Citadel brushes, they are expensive but will last for ages.
Milliput is a nice putty too, it has a thousand or so uses.
If you are buying cutters you want a flat edge not a rounded edge as you have specified, a flush cut is best.
Poly cement is a must if you are working with plastic and I'm pretty sure Elmers is a wood glue.
Brass rod can, mostly, be replaced by paperclips; far cheaper.

That should do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks!

wow, thanks a bunch, that was exactly the kind of response i was looking for 8Y

the only question i need answered is what exactly is "green stuff" , i think ive read that its a two-part epoxy, but does it have a better name? i dont think i can go into a craft store and ask for green stuff and get what i need.
 

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Ender of Threads
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Well, the paint issue is really a very subjective one. Everyone has their brand and method they swear by. Myself, I use GW and Vallejo paints. I've seen some truly horrific results from cheap craft paints, but I've also seen some utterly awe-inspiring stuff painted with the same stuff. I'd say pick up a few colors and experiment. Different methods, different thinning ratios, you name it - practice until you can get the results you want.

Brushes are also a subjective point and there's a million options for these, too. Go to an art store and take a look at their expensive, high end brushes - they're comfortable to grip, well balanced, well built, and their bristles just plain feel good. That's what you're after. Cheaper brushes simply won't be as good, but the same principles apply - if the brush feels like it's good, it probably is. Poor brushes are often flimsy toothpicks with a wobbly metal ferrule and a scrap of unidentifiable hair stuffed into the end, and it's not really surprising - you tend to get what you pay for. Cheaper brushes work just fine for utility work, but I strongly recommend getting a few fairly nice, more costly brushes for your finish work. And above all else, TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOUR BRUSHES!!! Wash them thoroughly, don't mash the bristles against things, don't let paint dry out on them, and don't let paint get into the ferrule! An average, well maintained brush will outperform an abused masterpiece every time.

As Walex said, flat-faced, flush cutting snips work best - the difference is really staggering. Good plastic glue is also a great help, and you'll probably need to go find a modelling shop to find a worthwhile selection. or order online.

I like either GW's black spray primer, or Dupli-color grey automotive primer. A bit costly, but IMHO, it's worth it for a good foundation. Try what you like, though.

Don't buy superglue from a craft store unless they sell large quantities - Woodworking and industrial suppliers sell 10 or 20 times the amount of those tiny little krazy glue packets you find in most stores for half the price!

Here's an old modeller's trick for making an awesome filler "putty" yourself! Get some talcum powder (as plain and unscented as you can find), and superglue. Mix them approximately 1:1 into a paste, then apply it to your model with a toothpick or similar. It sticks like crazy, hardens fast, doesn't shrink, sands well, and cures rock hard. Just be careful - it is superglue after all, and it'll stick to everything if you make a mess!

Green Stuff is the commonly known name for Kneadatite epoxy putty. There's quite a few equivalents and alternates out there, but you may need to find a modelling shop to find people who have any idea what you're talking about - craft shops generally don't carry them. Check www.thewarstore.com for some good examples.

Hope that helps! If you need any further clarification, just ask!
 

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An opinion from someone who uses paints 12 hours or so a day :) :

GW Paints - They are good! I think a lot of people bash them just because they are GW. I like GWs flippers better than others, but I still wish they had droppers. GW paints are best for their bright, vibrant colors. Metals are ok. Blood red is the best bright red ever. I buy them 5 pots at a time.

Reaper Masters and Vallejo- these are pretty much the same, except for metals which I will get to. These paints are in droppers, which saves a ton of paint and money. These are best for darker, natural colors such as browns, natural blues and greens. Their brighter colors arent so good. Reapers blood red is too natural for my tastes and dries about 5 shades pinker than what it is wet.

P3- The good: they have great natural tones, and for such a small line of paint, many good leather and dirt colors. the bad- there is a reason citadel dropped these pots years ago. The containers are terrible. Gw pots are way better. Also their metals are not good at all. In fact I threw the metals I bought to test out away, I didnt want to accidentally use them or think they would be ok to put on a clients mini in any amount.

Craft paint - A lot of people knock these, but they are great for terrain and bases. The only black and white I use is the huge containers from Apple Barrel. The black is great for base rims because you can waste half of it and be out $.25.

Therefore, I use a large mix of paints.

Superglue- the best is from Wal Mart. $1 gets you 4 tubes. I often buy 5 packs and that lasts me a while. $5 for a huge supply of superglue is a good deal.

Files and snips- this is a place not to skimp, as you will have these forever. You can buy cheapos but they will break on you, especially the files.

Other things I use almost every day:

Exacto blade (knock offs will do the average hobbyist)
Cutting mat
Dremel Tool (not neccessary for everyone)
Hand sander and strips of paper (I use this more than the files actually) See it in my display board making video
A good water container. I have one that has holes for keeping brushes off the table (Which is very important if you assemble and paint in the same area!)

Think that covers a good bit. See ya all later!

Brandon

Edit: forgot brushes. Get a Windsor and newton size 1. It will last you months and months and never need anything done to it. DO NOT get anything smaller than a 1 in a quality brush. You just dont need it and the larger brushes hold paint better and longer, and have the same tip.
 

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The quality of the brush and the material it is made of really is important to a decent finish. As a rule of thumb I tend to stay away from the cheap and nasty ones completely. A decent fibre - like sable or teklon have, in my experience, worked quite well. A nice point is also important and as someone said, the smaller sizes aren't needed and can in fact hamper you work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
if your too stinge and/or poor to even fork out for citadel paints then you shouldn't be getting into these niche markets (warhammer/40k) anyway.
its a good thing you attempted to understand why i was looking for better priced supplies instead of buying directly from GW so you could make an informed post. Instead of making a wild baseless assumption.

Games Workshop charges an extreme amount of money for some of their models, sometimes $40+ dollars for one model, the cost of making the model is not anywhere near that, but they have to mark things up to make up for losses elsewhere and to pay for salaries, etc. So instead of buying from a place that marks things up so greatly, i can buy things from a craft store or hobby supplies store and get the same quality item without the needless markup. I'm here asking about quality and trying to find equivalent items so i get the same product, without the high price, so when i do buy GW's models, i have at least saved money on the supplies to paint and assemble the model.

whoops, no its because im too poor to afford it, and not just someone who doesnt like to overpay if he doesnt have to. Please mr moneybags, can i have some more soup please?

Anyway, i found some nice brushes at ACMOORE for less than GW would've charged + shipping, and i found some nice acrylic paints, primer spray, textured spraypaint(really cool stuff for making nice bases and textured terrain walls).
 

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Hi,

I'm new to painting and I have a similar dillema, i.e. choosing a non-GW/Valejo paints due to costs. Doing some research online I noted that a lot of people like Delta Ceramcoat paints. I personally bought a few bottles from Americana, CRAFT, Ceramcoat and FolkArt (just a bottle or two from each company) to try them out. Based on the "experiments" so far I think I gotta admit that GW paints are the best of the bunch. However, I'm not sure if they're so much better as to justify the price difference.

Anyway...I'd like to hear ppl's opinion about Ceramcoat paints on this forum. If you don't use GW/Valejo paints, what brand do you use and would recommend?

Also, has anyone stumbled upon a conversion chart for GW/Ceramcoat paints or any others for that matter? Such a chart would be really useful when painting models using GW's guidelines.

I myself found these two useful links but can't attest to their validity:
[PAINT] Citadel Color - FolkArt Acrylics Conversion Chart - RPGnet Forums
New Page 1

Here's a nice rundown of the major paint companies:

Michael Casavant's Web Pages

Thansk for any advise.
 

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Honestly, Citadel is a phenominal product when it comes to paints. Although, Testors is good too, if you're looking for an acrylic alternative.
And, the one thing you haveeee to get, if you are planning on putting together metal models, is epoxy. And no, I'm NOT talking about green stuff, which is an epoxy putty, that has a satisfying end result, but is rather flimsy and/or soft. I'm referring to the actual Epoxy, which is always sold in two tubes, where one is chemical hardener, and the other is resin. You mix the two liquids together, and get a very thick epoxy, which you can apply in between parts on, say, a hive tyrants body, in order to get a cement like hold. Also, these epoxies come in different strengths, measured in set time. I usually go for about 15 minutes. 5 is too short, and not a strong enough hold, in my opinion, and 30 is a bit too long to hold two pieces of metal together for.
 

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Not being a professional guru =), my feeling is it's a matter of how much is the time worth to you? Paint is pigment binder and water. Craft paint is pigment binder and water, GW paint is pigment binder and water. One is probably going to take hours and hours, days and days of unsatisfying results as you struggle with learning just the right amount of water and floor wax and medium and the things to add to each different color of craft paint to get the right consistency to paint minis, and learn how to adjust it for each new bottle. The other is more or less right for putting on a miniature straight out of the bottle and you just have to add a drop of water to keep it running right.

Some hobbyists have a natural gift for mixing up the craft paint just right, kudos to them! I've tried it, and don't have whatever the knack is. To me, I'd rather spend my time painting minis and pay an extra dollar for a bottle of paint, than throw away my free time struggling with the wrong tool to save a couple bucks. The fact that you get more by volume is kind of a fallacy in my opinion. 2oz or 6oz, most will dry out long before you use them up anyway. For my current army I've painted 60 battle sisters completely mechrite red then blood red, and you can barely tell the pots have been used. The only time you consume paint in quantity is on terrain and big flat vehicle surfaces, which is what craft paint *should* be used for! =)

For budget concious brushes I'm really happy with the Loew Cornell Golden Taklon that BWB used to sell. I don't think warstore kept the line, but it's a major brand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
im using ceramcoat for my chaos raptors(check this section for the pics), and i think it looks pretty good. Its a little thick, and has very tiny bits in it which can make your paint look a little coarse if you dont thin it a bit, but once you get the proper water/paint ratio it really doesnt look bad.

I'm taking a trip to ACMoore(a huge retail craft warehouse if you dont know what acmoore is) they sell all kinds of paints, high quality brushes, all kinds of cool stuff for low prices. I'm using some ceramcoat paint i had for another project and like i said, i think it looks really nice, comes in a ton of colors, and gives a decent coat.

GW paints might be a little better for painting their models, but i think alternatives really arent too bad, and definitely a hell of a lot cheaper.
 

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I personally don't know why it is Ceramcoat that people like so much. I use apple barrel when i do use craft paint. I think thats the same as folk art, or maybe just brand. I never look at the label hehe.

In regards to the above post, I personally detest epoxy. However I know lots of people that swear by it. I hate that it stinks, and it gets on my hands no matter what I do. Also the five minute stuffs seems to stay liquid for about ten then freeze up in one. Thats just my personal experience though. I also havan't found it to be *that* much stronger than the 'ol superglue green stuff superglue sandwich. I like it because the green stuff holds it in place while the superglue dries, the superglue hardens the green stuff even more, and then once the green stuff dries its an even tougher bond. It also takes all of sticking it together for most parts to hold themselves in place. I despise sitting and holding models waiting for the glue to dry.

Edit: Okay, not the above poster. Thought the other page was the last :)
 

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I have not been painting for very long at all, but i find that reaper pro paints are not only inexpensive, but last a long time and have nice coverage. They mix well with citadel paints also, though i tend to prefer the former overall.

with the exception of my tab for the citadel paints i don' think i've spent more than maybe 15 dollars on reaper pro and that's several small pots in comparison to the 4 pots i picked up today.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
im using ceramcoat just because thats what i had on hand, when i hit the local craftstore im going to see if they have vallejo, reaper, or any of the other more name brand gaming paints and see what prices they are. If they arent too bad id be happy using them, im not against gaming paints, but its mainly a cost issue. I really dont have a big budget for gaming supplies and most of that money has to go to buying models, not paints and epoxy/brushes/etc.
 
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