Librarium Online Forums banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You guys think that the Book of St. Lucius has the ability to override the affect caused by the Culexus and the Pariah's??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
No replies after 3 days?? whats up with you guys?
But anyways personally i don't think it would, due to the culexus ability not actually being a negative modifier, but an effect on your troops.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
696 Posts
I believe it would work, depending on the placement. If you had a unit within the 12" of the -ld from the culexus and it was also within 6" of the character with the book of st. lucius it could use that character's unmodified leadership, as long as the character wasn't also within 12" of the culexus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
This could get very tricky. Here's how I handle it.
Note that a Pariah "changes" the base Ld of a model.
The Book does not change the base Ld of the model, it simply allows the model to ignore negative modifiers. An example of a negative modifier is the -1 for being outnumbered in a lost Assault.

The difference is thus summed as "modifying" the die roll, vs "changing" the model's profile.
So the book does disregard the -1 modifier in a lost and outnumnered Assault.
But the book does not disregard effects that change the Ld of the Bearer.
And still, the Ld of the bearer (wether changed or not) extends 6", and can be shared.

________________

Before you go and apply this concept (modify dice roll vs change profile) elsewhere in 40K take caution: GW didn't really think through the difference in these 2 principles very carefully in some cases.

For example, "The Passion" (I have an active thread lamenting it's lack of effect upon the sweep). Is currently being treated as a "modifier" as per itallics on p.43. But I think "The Passion" is not a modifier, rather it is a temporary profile change that lasts through the assault phase. However, this is a moot point, because p. 43 seems to negate all perspectives though would have The Passion affecting the sweep roll.

Clear as mud?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
MODIFIER vs PROFILE CHANGE

Heiromyo said:
I can't see a problem, unless the modified the person carrying the books leadership.
It is a problem
THe problem is that a "modifier" is never defined by GW.
I defined it, but GW never did.

What is a "modifier"? Is a "modifier" when the dice roll is changed like when outnumbered in after a lost assault? THey use the word "modifier" in that section. CHeck for yourself.

But what changes the "profile" of a model?
Is that a "modifier" too? "The Passion" clearly states that it lasts through the whole assault phase (which inludes the sweep roll).

But p. 43 says that no "modofiers" may be used in the sweep roll.

Well... which is it? Is "the Passion" a modifier or is it a profile change?
THe sad fact is that GW isn't clear about what constitutes a "profile change" and what constitutes a "modifier".

THerefore, if the owner of a Pariah tries to "change the profile" of your book-of st-lucius-weilding model, then I would use his same arguement against him: Use "The Passion" to "change the profile" of the model, and use her 2+ Init in any sweep rolls where applicable. After all, you could argue that her "base profile" has magicly changed. THis is using the very same definition.

All I'm asking for is consistency, or for GW to own up to their mistakes. I would accept either.

DO YOU HEAR ME GW! GIVE ME +2 ON THE SWEEP ROLL, OR LET THE BOOK-BEARER ALONE!
YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH! I'm going to hold my breath until GW says "OK OK OK. Uncle, please please stop, you're killing us".
:x
 

·
LO Zealot
Joined
·
1,331 Posts
Ah right, Bang, just reconized the problem. No, you can't confer modifed leadership to other squads and it clearly states you unmodified leadership in the rules.

If you are refering to the rulebook pages it is commonly known for codexes to overright any clashes when comparing rules from books, so in other words, prioity is given to the codex. If you were refering to the necron codex pages i don't have the codex and can't be of much help in that respect, but i would most likely stick to my first comment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I believe it would work, depending on the placement. If you had a unit within the 12" of the -ld from the culexus and it was also within 6" of the character with the book of st. lucius it could use that character's unmodified leadership, as long as the character wasn't also within 12" of the culexus.
that was also the general thought as well, as long as that character remains out of range of the Culexus/Pariah then her unmodified Ld is used, which we decided was a question of order again i.e. the squad is Ld 7 until required to take a test, the Ld of the model outside the Culexus range happens after the Culexus/Pariah effect. That was the only viable way to work as a counter it, for 5 pts it would have been to powerful otherwise.
 

·
The Fallen
Joined
·
7,745 Posts
I agree with Zinfandel, both on his interpretation of the difference between a modifir and a change, as well as the suggestion he should hold his breath until GW issue a clarification
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What is a "modifier"? Is a "modifier" when the dice roll is changed like when outnumbered in after a lost assault? THey use the word "modifier" in that section. CHeck for yourself.
See i think that "The Passion" is a modifier and not a stat change due to the rules statement "adds 2 to its initiative". The "Soulless" rule is a direct change on a stat line using the the statment "Counts as having" its not a positive (+2) or negative (-2) modification of that stat. So the the ability of the Cul/Pariah would still be in affect during a sweep roll but not "The Passion".
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top