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I only have 6 Pathfinders and have used them in just a few games [3-8 games]. I don't know if I should reintroduce them to my army and if I should what for?

I'd like your opinions on wether you think they are a waste of points, or how many your take, and how you use your Pathfinders. Just to see if I should dust them off or not.

Thank you!
 

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Senior Member
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I think path finders are definitely worth it! I normally use a Squad of 8 but i think 6 could also be useful.

I normally put the path finders in a safe position so in the early part of the game they can let units have the BS boost. Sometimes i may use some of the other benefits of the marker lights, the main been the lowering of cover saves. I think it depends on the situation.

The DF is normally used for fire warriors leave the path finders where they are. I must admit this can lead the path finders been taken out later on in the game but thats always the risk with a static unit. Even with this risk i still think giving the DF to some fire warriors and also maybe using its deep strike boosting rules is worth the risk to the path finders.

In short path finders make our powerful weapons much better.

One last but important point, do not use rail rifles they waste what the path finder can do.
 

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The deep down truth
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One thing I have learned is Pathfinders simply do not work that well in single units. I take two units of 5 Pathfinders, no upgrades or anything, just bog standard. Take a single unit and usually it will not be around long enough to do much good.
Pathfinders are most definitely not a waste of points. The thing to remember with Pathfinders is they are mainly needed in the first few turns and the overriding uses are ballistic boosts and cover save reduction. An XV8 unit is a lot more potent with even a +1 boost to BS and a Hammerhead is a lot better at BS5.
Having two units means it takes a lot more for an opponent to take your ML support out and it means a lot bigger swathe of the field can be covered by the ML's
I usually put my Pathfinders in the best cover I can find and I have never started my 1st turn without at least one unit of PF's surviving.
The other major benefit of the PF unit in 5th is you no longer have to pay extra for Fire warrior Devilfish, you can simply use the PF's Devilfish. All in all for the 120pts it costs me to take the two units of 5 Pathfinders, the benefits I get far outweigh their cost, I can usually guarantee two hits per team and that means two of my hard hitting Tau units will be hitting harder still.
I know this sounds contradictory but I try to build as many units as I can to not need Markerlight support, this means the units I cannot do this for get maximum usage out of the ML's available, rather than having multiple units vying for each ML token.
 

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Stirling
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One thing I have learned is Pathfinders simply do not work that well in single units. I take two units of 5 Pathfinders, no upgrades or anything, just bog standard. Take a single unit and usually it will not be around long enough to do much good.
Pathfinders are most definitely not a waste of points. The thing to remember with Pathfinders is they are mainly needed in the first few turns and the overriding uses are ballistic boosts and cover save reduction. An XV8 unit is a lot more potent with even a +1 boost to BS and a Hammerhead is a lot better at BS5.
Having two units means it takes a lot more for an opponent to take your ML support out and it means a lot bigger swathe of the field can be covered by the ML's
I usually put my Pathfinders in the best cover I can find and I have never started my 1st turn without at least one unit of PF's surviving.
The other major benefit of the PF unit in 5th is you no longer have to pay extra for Fire warrior Devilfish, you can simply use the PF's Devilfish. All in all for the 120pts it costs me to take the two units of 5 Pathfinders, the benefits I get far outweigh their cost, I can usually guarantee two hits per team and that means two of my hard hitting Tau units will be hitting harder still.
I know this sounds contradictory but I try to build as many units as I can to not need Markerlight support, this means the units I cannot do this for get maximum usage out of the ML's available, rather than having multiple units vying for each ML token.
Riki is wring .. pathfinders are fail. Go with Vespid squads or drone squads for fast attack!


Ok, maybe he isnt wrong. Pathfinders are awesome. Nothing is better then using markerlights to strip the cover saves off of turbo boosting assault bikers or anything else that gets a cover save and that have to rely on that save to stay alive. It is also nice to have bs 5 for a full squad of rapid firing firewarriors. Course I am one of the rare few here that use full firewarrior squads but I like em.

One thing that many do, myself included, to get more pathfinders for a cheaper price is to just use converted firewarriors.
 

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Riki is wring .. pathfinders are fail. Go with Vespid squads or drone squads for fast attack!


Ok, maybe he isnt wrong. Pathfinders are awesome. Nothing is better then using markerlights to strip the cover saves off of turbo boosting assault bikers or anything else that gets a cover save and that have to rely on that save to stay alive. It is also nice to have bs 5 for a full squad of rapid firing firewarriors. Course I am one of the rare few here that use full firewarrior squads but I like em.

One thing that many do, myself included, to get more pathfinders for a cheaper price is to just use converted firewarriors.
Pathfinders are nice indeed, but I hate how with so much power armour exists, making the rapid firing FW, even at BS5, not that great. Keeping them safe is often more important in my eyes (I also run a squad of 12). especially when you jump out and fire, but then a heavy flamer or skorcha is brought to your face (soetimes with something like a warbuggy), and it just tears them apart. wounding on 2's no armour save? I'd rather stay shacked up in my mobile fortress.

I run my pathfinders 7 strong including a Shas'ui and bonding knife. Early on I was annoyed by them running off the table and thats why I went for the upgrade. Maybe if i expanded my army to a higher points level i might go 2x5 units naked, but im keeping my current setup for now.
 

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Firefly
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I try to build as many units as I can to not need Markerlight support,
This is my design philosophy. I design my list for redundancy. I'd rather have more shots than slightly more accurate shots. There are too many things that can kill off pathfinders Turn 1 and they are no more resiliant than Firewarriors.
 

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I am a free man!
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Pathfinders are 40K's best force multipliers. Absolutely every standard-sized Tau army list (between 1500 pts and 2000 pts) should take at least 1 unit of 6-8. 8 is best if you're taking just one unit, 5-6 in two units if you take two units.

Once again, I suggest you read at least the first post of the tactica linked in my signature below. You'd know why Pathfinders are vital if you did. Your army list is flawed to the broken point and needs a complete overhaul ... of which the inclusion of Pathfinders is but one element.
 

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Firefly
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Absolutely every standard-sized Tau army list (between 1500 pts and 2000 pts) should take at least 1 unit of 6-8. 8 is best if you're taking just one unit, 5-6 in two units if you take two units.
I don't agree with this line of arguement at all. Every army should take them? I have been playing Tau since they came out and I have yet once to use pathfinders. If you build your list accordingly you do not need them.
 

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I am a free man!
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I don't agree with this line of arguement at all. Every army should take them? I have been playing Tau since they came out and I have yet once to use pathfinders. If you build your list accordingly you do not need them.
Well, as you surely know, I don't believe there to be anything but one "valid" Tau build at this point. ;) So ... yeah. I do actually think every army list needs them. At this point, there is no alternative build according to my standards that would render them unnecessary.
 

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The deep down truth
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Pathfinders are 40K's best force multipliers. Absolutely every standard-sized Tau army list (between 1500 pts and 2000 pts) should take at least 1 unit of 6-8. 8 is best if you're taking just one unit, 5-6 in two units if you take two units.

Once again, I suggest you read at least the first post of the tactica linked in my signature below. You'd know why Pathfinders are vital if you did. Your army list is flawed to the broken point and needs a complete overhaul ... of which the inclusion of Pathfinders is but one element.
Bloody hell six, it would be nice to have one thread you post in where you do not plug your tactica, I have quite a few tactica's on here but I do not shamelessly plug them every time I post. Anyhoo Skars, I agree to a point a Tau army can indeed function without Pathfinders (or any other ML unit) but the fact is the Tau army is made a lot more effective by their inclusion. No matter what you say a unit of Fireknives hitting at BS5 will do a lot more damage than one at BS3, vehicles are a lot easier to kill when you hit them at BS5 and remove their cover save.

Also six we are not in anyway limited to one army build (funnily enough is it yours?). My list does not follow the usual 3 elite Fireknife, multiple Pirnaha template but it is easily as effective (if not more so) than the 3 FK/Piranha build. We are limited in how we play Tau tactically but this does not mean that we are limited to builds to play within those tactical limitations.

We are limited enough as it is by the tactical restrictions imposed on us and your insistence that only one build works is misleading, restricting and inaccurate and only adds to the misguided and inaccurate perception that Tau are finished as an army
 

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I actually think the latest lists you've been plugging in recent threads are essentially just variations of The One Good Build ... as outlined in my tactica. :p They're the first time you've ever done what I think is vitally necessary: minimize FWs and plug those points into offensive Crisis Suits ... Crisis Suits being the primary workhorses of the army. They're also the first lists where you've been advocating Broadsides, another requirement by my estimation. (You have otherwise dismissed them as generally unnecessary and wasteful, even as recently as the massive Tyranids topic.)

I "plug" my tactica so I don't have to repeat myself. (See unnecessary repetition in this very response to you.) More convenient just to point it out, yes?
 

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The deep down truth
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I actually think the latest lists you've been plugging in recent threads are essentially just variations of The One Good Build ... as outlined in my tactica. :p They're the first time you've ever done what I think is vitally necessary: minimize FWs and plug those points into offensive Crisis Suits ... Crisis Suits being the primary workhorses of the army. They're also the first lists where you've been advocating Broadsides, another requirement by my estimation. (You have otherwise dismissed them as generally unnecessary and wasteful, even as recently as the massive Tyranids topic.)

I "plug" my tactica so I don't have to repeat myself. (See unnecessary repetition in this very response to you.) More convenient just to point it out, yes?
I minimised the FW's because I had no choice because I needed to find points for 'accurate' Plasma. I would still take bigger units if I could. I did not minimise them because they work better that way, in fact I think 6 man squads suck because they add nothing to the army, 6 man units add no offensive capability and you HAVE to keep them in the Devilfish. I did not take three units of elite FK's and I created a version of my 2000pt with XV88's for OTHERS who like the XV88 (if they must, then I showed em how to put them in there). I still use a Skyray and two HH's. XV88's work in 2500pts where you can take plenty of them so they get more time to work.
I still think the XV88 is a very easy unit to nerf when taken in small amounts.
My list is in no way a variation of your build, it has similarities but the make up is very different (less Piranhas, 2 Shas'Els, no elite Fk's, Torch squad, Skyray) yes it uses the same basic tactics but very different army.

Pity you couldn't think of a way to avoid endlessly referring to you tactica :sinister: I am sure people can find it if they need it.
 

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Firefly
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Well, as you surely know, I don't believe there to be anything but one "valid" Tau build at this point. ;) So ... yeah. I do actually think every army list needs them. At this point, there is no alternative build according to my standards that would render them unnecessary.
I am not sure what your standards are but my tourney list is nothing like yours and oddly enough it does just fine. ;)
 
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