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I don't know if its just in my area but i find that most players under 18 dont read the rules at all. They just seem to read the title of the ability or upgrade and just guess what it does. I have only been playing for 1.5 years but i have been correcting players who have been playing for 6+ years. Heres some things i can think of off the top of my head that have happened to me about rules: someone thought upgrades were free, another person thought that leaping for nids makes them jump infantry, someone thinking that some premeassureing rule (for a specific unit only) for IG (old codex) applied to all units, a person who played for 7 years thought blast templates were handelded with no scatter, but rolling to hit and the worst player thought that you used WS to shoot instead of BS. From all of these players i have heard the usual "but thats what the codex/rulebook says." Has anyone else had any experiances like this?
 

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The Future
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I don't know if its just in my area but i find that most players under 18 dont read the rules at all.
I think you'll find that it's nothing to do with age. Sometimes it's that they've got an old rule stuck in their head, sometimes they know the rules but are trying to cheat, sometimes they just miss sections from the rulebook.
I have only been playing for 1.5 years but i have been correcting players who have been playing for 6+ years.
Then you have the advantage of only knowing 5th edition 40k :p
someone thought upgrades were free
I would guess they were more cheating than ignorant
another person thought that leaping for nids makes them jump infantry
If they didn't also try to move then 12" in the assault phase, I'd say it was an understandable mistake especially if they were new to the codex.
someone thinking that some premeassureing rule (for a specific unit only) for IG (old codex) applied to all units
cheater
a person who played for 7 years thought blast templates were handelded with no scatter, but rolling to hit
That's how it USED to work.
and the worst player thought that you used WS to shoot instead of BS
Now this is either cheating or incredible ignorance!
From all of these players i have heard the usual "but thats what the codex/rulebook says." Has anyone else had any experiances like this?
I would say we've all make mistakes like this - the less severe mistakes at least. I know I'm sometimes corrected on a rule I thought I had down pat due to weird wording.
 

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Son of LO
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I never player 40k when I was younger, but my friends did, and they openly confess that they just assumed they knew what the rules were after a cursory glance at the rulebook. One had all the others convinced that every time a model got into base-to-base with Kharne the Betrayer, they automatically lost a wound. And that Kharne's toughness was too high to be wounded by storm bolters...

The absolute worst was a rich guy at my high school who bought 3000 points of 40k without even opening a rulebook, paid another guy to paint them all, and then rocked up with his models and a bag of marbles. Why marbles? He thought that you played the game by rolling marbles at the units, and if you knocked them over they were dead. No shit.
 
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This is something that has always suprised me. I very rarely play but I often find I have as good a knowledge of the rules as people who reckon they know the rulebook off the top oif their heads- these are the people you see making elemenetary mistakes. You can expect it from little kids though I guess.

At the end of the day 40k (and WHFB even more so to some extent) is a complex game with A LOT of rules, particularly if you add in all the special rules from the codexes (codexii?) So everyone will need to refer to the book at least a couple of times during a game- i think the trick is to be aware of as much as you can so that you can query if someone is doing something that doesnt seem right, either accidently or for some nefarious purpose.
 

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From all of these players i have heard the usual "but thats what the codex/rulebook says." Has anyone else had any experiances like this?
Just this Wednesday I was standing with rulebook in hand, my finger on the rule and still making no headway. Apparently for some people "but thats what the codex/rulebook says" isn't good enough even when it _is_ what the codex/rulebook says :p
 

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LO's Resident Time Lord
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Whether accidental (misread rulebook) or intentional (cheating), I think the best way to handle rules disputes is to... look at the rules. Sounds simple, and it is. If someone says, "It's in the rulebook" or "it's in the codex," politely ask them to cite chapter and verse. No quicker way to educate someone who is in error or call someone out who is cheating.

Either way, if you make them look it up enough, the problem will eventually go away, regardless of the motives behind it.
 

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^+1
Which is why you never play 40K (or pretty much any GW game) without the rule book and codex (for each army present) as well as any additional rule books being used (eg cities of death). I would also add that the FAQ should be printed off and present as well since that can sometimes help to solve some common confusing areas between codexes.

To play without the rules is risking a lot since there are a massive number of rules and a massive number of things that conflict with them as well as the chances of wordings that can sometimes say something slightly different to what people remember/expect.
 

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LO Ninja
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The absolute worst was a rich guy at my high school who bought 3000 points of 40k without even opening a rulebook, paid another guy to paint them all, and then rocked up with his models and a bag of marbles. Why marbles? He thought that you played the game by rolling marbles at the units, and if you knocked them over they were dead. No shit.
That just made my day!

PL
 

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the mandrake
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The absolute worst was a rich guy at my high school who bought 3000 points of 40k without even opening a rulebook, paid another guy to paint them all, and then rocked up with his models and a bag of marbles. Why marbles? He thought that you played the game by rolling marbles at the units, and if you knocked them over they were dead. No shit.
Wow...

Anyway, something that irks me is people within my gaming group who refuse to read the rulebook simply because other people have. They have learnt the game by asking questions and refuse to check rules themselves, often interrupting someone elses game to ask them to look up a rule for them.
 

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Its funny the OP mentions U18's as being very rules ignorant. From experience its more the U13's you find in GW stores that dont know what theyre doing.

As it happens, the U18s in my group are all very rules savvy, even if some of them get mixed up between editions, and its the players who have been playing for ages and think they know every rule and stat from every army make the mistakes.

Case in point A blood angel player, who thought that:

A tiny peice off fluff enabled him to take moriar the chosen and 2 free furioso dreads.
That all his units had +1 attack for "Being a blood angel."
That his death company had 2 wounds
And his chaplian could escape from a combat by using his jump pack to kill Base to base models.
That his dreads had a special tear attack that could Instant kill a fex, simply by hitting it.
and despite not playing Nids, he seemed to know that the synapse creatures do not cover themselves in synapse, and that i had to use another unit.

Whilst not horrifcally bad compared to the likes of Ze-Poodles story, the guy was very arrogant and refused to listen to a word i said, and claimed that, as hed been playing for 10+ years compared to my 2 at the time, he must of been right.


So yes to the OP, but not in the age group he surgests.
 

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i was 17 not a month ago aznd i wouldn't say that. generally under 18s like more of the role-playing. well usually when you mention under 18s your really talking about 14-15 years olds and younger.
thanks
antique_nova
 

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This guy at my LGS has a tau army... where to start?

all tau are BS4
all crisis suits can move 12" shoot then jump baclk 12" in the assault phase
crisis suits are troops
crisis suits are BS5
and he makes constant "mistakes" when adding up his points
I'm not even telling you what he thinks farsight does

Did I mention nobody's allowed to touch his codex? And when asked about a rule he looks in his codex says "found it" then closes the book. He then tells you that he was right all along. He refuses to even show you the rule on the grounds of "you're accusing him of lying and cheating".

Oh and apparently I own the wrong Tau Empire codex, or the one I own has many misprintinfgs and mistakes, despite it having the same covers as his, and being up to date.

He is very childish... and he's over 20.

But yes it's only 15 year olds like me that make mistakes, i make sure to fully read each new book I have twice before playing a game with it, and to fully re-read the army list sections and specal rules of units I use monthly as well as re-rwad the rulebook 1-2 times a year.

Ignorance and laziness is not simply a trait of children and teenagers, and many of you it seems are placing most of the blame on us.

The Emperor Protects
 

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The absolute worst was a rich guy at my high school who bought 3000 points of 40k without even opening a rulebook, paid another guy to paint them all, and then rocked up with his models and a bag of marbles. Why marbles? He thought that you played the game by rolling marbles at the units, and if you knocked them over they were dead. No shit.
I used to play wargames like that! Though I used proper plastic soldiers and such - not expensive highly crafted plastic (and metal) miniatures.
 

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This guy at my LGS has a tau army... where to start?

all tau are BS4
all crisis suits can move 12" shoot then jump baclk 12" in the assault phase
crisis suits are troops
crisis suits are BS5
and he makes constant "mistakes" when adding up his points
I'm not even telling you what he thinks farsight does

Did I mention nobody's allowed to touch his codex? And when asked about a rule he looks in his codex says "found it" then closes the book. He then tells you that he was right all along. He refuses to even show you the rule on the grounds of "you're accusing him of lying and cheating".

Oh and apparently I own the wrong Tau Empire codex, or the one I own has many misprintinfgs and mistakes, despite it having the same covers as his, and being up to date.

He is very childish... and he's over 20.

But yes it's only 15 year olds like me that make mistakes, i make sure to fully read each new book I have twice before playing a game with it, and to fully re-read the army list sections and specal rules of units I use monthly as well as re-rwad the rulebook 1-2 times a year.

Ignorance and laziness is not simply a trait of children and teenagers, and many of you it seems are placing most of the blame on us.

The Emperor Protects
I know, but i didn't mean it like that. I should have said people are more interesting in winning in odds that they believe should favour them etc.

Ignorance and laziness is not simply a trait of children and teenagers, and many of you it seems are placing most of the blame on us.
Well the majority who say this are adults who generally work harder, so they view anyone that isn't an adult or in uni lazy. I would agree with the ignorance for most, but not laziness. I remember being quite ignorant, but i still am at times :).

I have a guy whos in his mid twnties i believe, but he looks thirty and genearlly has the mentally of a young bully.

thanks
antique_nova
 

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Oh yes I've run into my fair share of special players. Normally though I have to say its mostly getting mixed up between editions. Im guilty of it as well. The ones that annoy me the most are the ones who want to nit pick every rule every time. Granted in a tourny situation I can see why its life or death, been there done that. When its just my sorry self playing a weekly game at the hobby shop, little 30 yr old billy -whos entire social status is tied into his army wins- need to cool it a bit. The ones who are cheating and you try to call them out on it, yeah thats a sore spot too.
 

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The adult gamer who acts like a little child is undoubtably the worst of all gamer archetypes as they really should know better.

Then again those sort of people are to be pitied (and avoided) they are like the guy from the South Park World of Warcraft episode- how can we kill that which has no life?
 

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The worst children are the ones who never grew up ;)

I've only been playing a year and a half, I did start with 6th ed fantasy ten years ago only painting, then got back into the hobby just to find my rulebook out of date, lol.

Worst trouble I had was having a companion who didn't let me read the rules for ages but insisted on playing me. Um, okay. Then would gloat afterwards about getting the rules wrong and mistakes I made - which was my fault for not reading the rules, naturally. (I paid for the book - we were dating at the time)

I was fed so much misinformation I'm still ironing out my knowledge a year and a half later! I am good for most things but every now and then something new crops up that I have to defer to someone elses expertise or an independant player nearby who can interpret a rule to a situation.

I try to keep all my information together and remember page numbers of the magic items I will use prominently, the basic stat lines of my models - I make sure I have my extra terrain for wood elves, all I need to do is print off extra lores and errata to keep with me as well just to evade some more frequent problems.

I slaughtered a chaos army at 500 points a few days ago, the guy resents it so much every game I have played since he questions me mercilessly, even calling me a liar openly in front of the group of friends we are with - in my boyfriends flat. Who works for the company and ends up arguing fruitlessly as the guy new to fantasy simply refuses to back down - this same guy was rejected for being employed by GW and honestly wonders why! Nobody wants to even play him anymore! His matches aren't even fun to watch!
 

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Ahhh, I've been playing since the late 80's. The game was still called rogue trader when I got into it. I've played every edition, and while the first two were very distinctive, and you'd never get them confused with anything, the last three editions have been very similar- rules differences that sometimes amount to little more than a change in grammar. When you read some of the rules debates on the forum here, you'll see what I mean. The most common debates we get into here (from what I've seen, and admittedly, I'm pretty new to LO) are Read as Written vs Read as Intended. And man, I gotta tell you, having read and played all those editions tends to make you weak on RAW, but it can give you insight on RAI. Now RAW is going to trump RAI every time, and 90% of the time, that's the way it should be. But having been through 5 editions, I can tell you I've come across a few instances where the grammar of the most recent printing is flawed, and it allows people to do things in a game that a) don't make logical sense and b) contradict the spirit of a rule as established by the four previous editions.

Granted the types of errors you're talking about in this thread are just cases of either gross ignorance or cheating. The rules debates that we see on LO are usually really close affairs, where both interpretations make sense and the "right" answer is merely the one which makes the most sense.

Man I feel old.
 

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Interestingly, I've never really had much of a problem with it. I got into the general wargaming hobby through LOTR around age 13 with a group of friends, and our games were honestly tactics, dice rolls and rules lawyering in equal measure. Interestingly, a few of us had a reunion of sorts on the weekend and played a few games using what he had left. The games were a lot calmer and they worked out to be a lot more fun than what they used to be (a highlight for me was when I couldn't kill the two remaining guys on opposing board ends, so I jumped my Haradrim out of the mumak's howdah to try and chase down one of them). Anyway, the point is that back then I thought we read the rules perhaps too thoroughly. Most of the misquotes I've come across were genuine mistakes:

*In LOTR, you're allowed to shoot if there's a friendly model in the way provided it's in base contact. An opponent I had explained that you can shoot through two layers because the title of the relevant segment is "shooting behind friends" *facepalm*
*My smurf opponent used to buy traits and whatnot for his army. He'd never let me read his army books because that would grant me an unfair advantage of knowledge. When I acquired a copy of the book myself, he said he felt it was cheating.
*Another thing I can remember wasn't really relevant to the game, as I was musing tactics out loud and said I could theoretically declare a charge against a unit that I knew would be well out of range (not that I would have. It's unsporting and as I recall was tactically weak at the time). The other guy argued that you can't declare a charge that you know you'll fail. I asked him to point it out in the rules and he just said that he knew. Fortunately, the issue was irrelevant, like I said.

But yeah, saying that the worst people are under 18 is a bit of a strong assumption. Even before my 17th birthday, I was able to explain to people why what they were doing was wrong by pointing it out in the rules. But then, I've always had a freaky ability for knowledge retention, and I'm beginning a law degree this year. Go figure :p.
 

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King of the Burning Sands
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Get the mini rule book and tab the specific and essential rule sections. I would suggest weapons and special combat rules.. There perhaps the independent character rules, vehicle rules, and the combat rules.

If its army specific rules, make sure your opponent has the rulebook on them.

That way there's no problem.
 
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