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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,
Me and my buddies were working in the forest yesterday, dressed up in overalls, chopping and digging like real Hill Billies. :party:
I got this crazy idea for making a hill billy unit in warhammer fantasy battle, here it comes...
All comments apreciated.

P.S. I already appologise for the bad spelling. I did the best I could.

Hillbyllys are a 0-2 core unit choise that does not counts towards the minimum core unit requirements. They can be taken allong by Empire, Bretonia, Dogs of War, Dwarfs, Orce and goblin, Ogre kingdoms, Beast of chaos, Chaos, or lizardmen armies.


Hillbilly (6 points)
m=S
WS=2
BS=2
st= 3
T=3
W=1
I=3
A=1
LD=6

Hillbilly Women
M=S
WS=2
BS=2
St=3
T=3
W=1
I=3
A=1
LD=6

Hillbillys and the hillbilly women are skirmishers, they dont carry any additionel equipment.

options:
-Each hillbilly (women) must be equiped with one off the following: 2 Chopping Knives (+2 points/model), a chopping axe (+2 points per model) or a chainsaw (+12 points a model).
-Each unit off hillbilly's MUST include one Hillbilly women at no additionel points wich will act as the champion off the unit in combat.
-Each unit off hillbillys may included a "beerbilly" at 2 addidtional points. This hillbilly may not carry any weaponery (because he carries the beer, duh), but he acts as a muscician (hillbilly's are more interested in fighting if theres beer around, see below)

Special rules:
-Chopping knives: counts as 2 hand weapons with the "dirty weapon" special rule. (see below)
-Chopping axe: counts as a great weapon with the "dirty weapon" special rule. (see below)
-Chainsaw: A chainsaw is an extremly powerfull but cumbersome weapon. The wielder counts as having strenght 7 with no armour saves allowed, but will always strike last, even after great weapons and breaindead zombies. In addition, a chainsaw has the "dirty weapon" special rule. (see below)
-Dirty weapons: Hillbillys are not exactly known for there good hygiene. After a Hillbilly causes a wound on a multiple wound creature, roll a D6. On 4+ the wound gets infected and the creature suffers another wound with no armour, ward or regenerations saves allowed. This additional wound counts towards combat resolution.
-"Lets get that lady!": Hillbylies think off little else then getting drunk and getting laid. They have no intelligence towards a combat plan or tactics what so ever. To represent this, nominate the general direction the hillbillys will move in, then roll 2D6 and 3D6 in the compulsary movement phase and look at the result.
-the 2D6 roll is lower then the 3D6 roll: the hillbilly lady manages to out run the hillbilys.
Move the entire unit the 2D6 inches in the direction intended by the player. If this moves brings them in to combat with an ennemy unit, this counts as a charge.
-The 2D6 roll equals or is higher then the 3D6 roll: The hillbillys get the hillbily lady! The hillbillys have some great time, drinking and having a good time for all they are worth!
The Hillbillys dont move at all this turn. If the Hillbillys have a beerbilly along, remove him for a regular hillbilly. If the unit was equiped with a beerbilly, the hillbillys count as being frenzy from now on, and will always move towards the closesd enemy unit in LOS.
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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chainsaws? Really?
Yea… sure let’s give them 2 attacks that just OWNS monsters… oh, they are 8 points a pop… then it is unthinkable that one of the two units of 20 will earn their points back, cause they are real vulnerable to shooting… Which monster armies like Chaos and Ogres have a lot of?

I have also spent time thinking about why we don’t have hillbilly units in Warhammer… Like if we could make a unit called Peasants or Militia! I wonder why games workshop haven’t used a term of prejudices like hillbilly. Maybe we could make a fan-made unit consisting of Elves living in the forest and then call them Anti-Vietnam-Tree-Huggers!

In all your glory you choose to do this?
Seriously?
I know you said it was a crazy idea, but this belongs in the Funny/Jokes section (no sarcasm here, I would have laughed if it was there). I see you have somewhat grasped the how-to of making units, so I would like to see some more serious work from you, as I think you can actually make something great!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
@ cebwj
How exactly is this unit going to shine against monsters/large targets?
-they have a random movement, with about 30% chanse not to move at all.
-in order to attack a monster/large target, they need to make a fear/terror check at Leadership 6.
-They have a WS of 2, wich means they are hitting most monsters (treeman, tyrant, shaggoth, dragons) at impressive 5+.
-when equiped with great weapons, they are wounding most large targets on an additonal 5+ (toughness 6 really isnt that uncommen). Whe are looking at an impressive 1 out of 9 attacks actually doing a wound in hth... with 4 guys in base to base with a monster thats not what I would call impressive. And then I am not counting in the fact that ye average oger/large target will strike the guys before they can strike at them... 3 plus followed by a 2 plus for most monster.
-with chainsaws this is even worse... even a unit of three regular oger bulls wil charge right trough them.
Could you be so kind to back your critisism up with some examples?
thanks in advance
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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836 Posts
@ cebwj
How exactly is this unit going to shine against monsters/large targets?
Due to the fact they actually have a nice chance of causing 2 wounds even when only costing 8pts, which makes them let say expendable
-they have a random movement, with about 30% chanse not to move at all.
A funny rule, but with 2 units you are likely to get some moving done, and if they get the charge, they are get to hit first (unless they have chainsaws). Then lets address the rule of catching the lady. This rules allow them to have 3 attacks! 3 attacks, having them standing still is a blessing if it happens in the start of the game...
-in order to attack a monster/large target, they need to make a fear/terror check at Leadership 6.
Yea, unless they have frenzy, then they are immune to psychology... Also these troops are available to Dwarfs whom have a Ld of 9 or 10 for all heroes! Just keep them within 12" of the general and they will make the test just fine!
-They have a WS of 2, wich means they are hitting most monsters (treeman, tyrant, shaggoth, dragons) at impressive 5+.
indeed, that isn't wonderful, but it is easy to cope with if you have played undead force for some time...
-when equiped with great weapons, they are wounding most large targets on an additonal 5+ (toughness 6 really isnt that uncommen).
Indeed, but then again T5 monsters are not uncommon either. One of the examples I mentioned was ogres with an unimpressive T and little armour in the way of protecting them from the evils of 'dirty' weaponry.
Whe are looking at an impressive 1 out of 9 attacks actually doing a wound in hth... with 4 guys in base to base with a monster thats not what I would call impressive.
Unless we are looking at a unit of 3 ogre bulls. If your unit gets the charge with frenzy and 2 dirty handweapons it is looking bleak for the ogres thats an average of 7,5 wounds caused on those poor ogres! outnumbering and other such wonders make those ogres die real fast and run. If not, your unit can do the same again next turn...
And then I am not counting in the fact that ye average oger/large target will strike the guys before they can strike at them... 3 plus followed by a 2 plus for most monster.
Not for the basic Ogre. then it is a 3+/3+... sure it would hurt IF they charge 4 man down on average and then your unit will only cause 4,5 wounds with their 'dirty' tricks! So even if a basic ogre unit charges you would come out on top, if we use mathhammer
-with chainsaws this is even worse... even a unit of three regular oger bulls wil charge right trough them.
My comment wasn't on the usefulness of the chainsaws, but on the fact that they have no chainsaws en regular warhammer! How would some Fantasy idiots get a hand of chainsaws?
Could you be so kind to back your critisism up with some examples?
thanks in advance
So i gave very concrete examples when figting ogres, which was one of my concerns. I just used bull becuase they are basic, but you can change them out with most ogre units and you'll get a similar result (although some might have good armour, which could be problematic), Then here are some food for though:
Dwarf hero Ld9 in the unit with one of the monsterkilling runes!
Empire Warrior priest getting of that 're-roll to wound' prayer!
Mage casts potent of the far
Mage casting Celestial Shield!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You must be incredibly impressed by the power off dogs of war duellists/norse marauders in my opinion.

-They have a movement of 8, wich is 1 more then my hill billies will do on average, and if the trow more then 8 on the 2D6 movement, they are likely to stand still for one turn.
-They have 2 weapon skill more than my hill billies (this is very important according to me.)
-they have an initiative more then my hill billies.
-They have a leadership more then my hill billies.


My hill billies have, for the exact same point cost (I am looking between hillbilies with additional hand weapons and duellists with 2 hand weapons).
-A chanse of having an additional attack, bun when the have this attack, they are frenzy, making them easy to handle (even korn knights are easy to handle, let alone toughnes 3 guys with no armour saves).
-a cost free champion
-a cheaper musician model, wich will disapear when they gain an additional attack.

Now, I think chanses on getting an additional attack equals about the advantages duellists have.

Do you consider duellists to be incredibly overpowered as well?:|

No, I dont want to start about the advantages of norse marauders in comparison to my hill billies.
-steady movement of 8
-2 additional weapon skill
-will always move
-start with 3 attacks, a 6+armour save AND an additional LD and initiative.
They only cost 1 point more per model...

Do you consider norse marauders to be incredibly overpowerd? :|
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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You must be incredibly impressed by the power off dogs of war duellists/norse marauders in my opinion.
They can't really have a hero added to them, nor do they take up NO SLOTS at all... A DoW unit takes up a RARE slot, which can be spend on a lot more fun stuff than DoW units...
-They have a movement of 8, wich is 1 more then my hill billies will do on average, and if the trow more then 8 on the 2D6 movement, they are likely to stand still for one turn.
Stand still and gain frenzy...
-They have 2 weapon skill more than my hill billies (this is very important according to me.)
Not VERY important in my book, as you still hit on 4+ against most with a normal WS, it is nice to hit on 3+ but it isnt vital the same way as 1 vs 2 A...
-they have an initiative more then my hill billies.
Indeed but I will keep my example against the foul ogres (which is basicly a whole army of monsters, which was what I said these suckers would overpower (and the basic bull has a lower I than hillbillies)...
-They have a leadership more then my hill billies.
A good general would simply put any hero in it, or keep it within the 12" of the general.

My hill billies have, for the exact same point cost (I am looking between hillbilies with additional hand weapons and duellists with 2 hand weapons).
-A chanse of having an additional attack, bun when the have this attack, they are frenzy, making them easy to handle (even korn knights are easy to handle, let alone toughnes 3 guys with no armour saves).
Indeed so, but the whole point of dealing with khorne knights is the fact that it is WORTH it. Some 8pts gitters is going to be easy to derail, but then again it isn't alot of your force wasted if the hillbillies are spent on a wild goose chase...
-a cost free champion
That is nice to have
-a cheaper musician model, wich will disapear when they gain an additional attack.
It's a good sacrifice!
Now, I think chanses on getting an additional attack equals about the advantages duellists have.
That seems like a fairly equal trade, but that doesn't address the dirty weapons rule...

Do you consider duellists to be incredibly overpowered as well?:|
Nope

No, I dont want to start about the advantages of norse marauders in comparison to my hill billies.
Then why do it?
-steady movement of 8
as opposed to an AVERAGE move of 7 :/
-2 additional weapon skill
Again, not the biggest deal
-will always move
True.
-start with 3 attacks, a 6+armour save AND an additional LD and initiative.
Very nice...
They only cost 1 point more per model...
And taking up a RARE slot...
Do you consider norse marauders to be incredibly overpowerd? :|
again no... and you still haven't talked about the dirty weapons!
Now I think I have done this long enough to deserve YOU addressing some of my critisism, which I posted earlier... Sure the best defence is a good offense, if you are smoking pot... Please take the time to address the numbers and examples you requested yourself before launching another offensive which I can then shoot down...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Would you considerded them to be fair when I would ad the following rule:

Scanvengers: as hillbillies have no general grasp about "leadership" and "being impressive", they can never modify there leadership under any sircumstances, not by any magic items the hiring armie might have, or by the presence off the general within 12 inch. They cant be joined by any characters either.

sounds better?

P.S.:
the ws is not that important for hitting stuf, it is important to be hit. A unit off three oger bulls will probabply have the charge on them (having a 12 inch charge). 3 impact hits will kill 2 billies, 9 attacks will do 6 hits, and kill another 4... with 6 guys that, there are about 3 that can strike back, and even with 9 attacks, that wont do more then 2 wounds... Imagining thee is a unit of 20, the ogers still wint the combat on average by three, letting the billies lose there frenzy imidiatly, and test on an impressive LD 3.
The ogers cost 55 points less then the the billies.
 

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Would you considerded them to be fair when I would ad the following rule:

Scanvengers: as hillbillies have no general grasp about "leadership" and "being impressive", they can never modify there leadership under any sircumstances, not by any magic items the hiring armie might have, or by the presence off the general within 12 inch. They cant be joined by any characters either.
It would help somewhat, but the thing I have the most problems with is the 'dirty weapons' actually, it's crazy how much damage that can deal out to multi-wound models... because... they are dirty? The darkelves use extensive amount of poison, and fluffwise a lot of warriors would also coat their weapons with poison, but that shouldn't have any effect on the game!
sounds better?

P.S.:
the ws is not that important for hitting stuf, it is important to be hit. A unit off three oger bulls will probabply have the charge on them (having a 12 inch charge). 3 impact hits will kill 2 billies, 9 attacks will do 6 hits, and kill another 4... with 6 guys that, there are about 3 that can strike back, and even with 9 attacks, that wont do more then 2 wounds... Imagining thee is a unit of 20, the ogers still wint the combat on average by three, letting the billies lose there frenzy imidiatly, and test on an impressive LD 3.
The ogers cost 55 points less then the the billies.
4 would be able to hit back... Furthermore the two wounds would become 3 wounds due to the dirty rule. this would mean the billies would get for outnumbering and 3 wounds... The ogres would have 6 for the killing, maybe a standard -2 to their weak Ld, which would be solved by the hero adding. If on the other hand the aforementioned rule was in place they would be defeated (and a lot closer to balance).
One thing I breifly touched upon in the first post is the fact: We already have 2 units of hillbillies in warhammer, the peasants and milita by bret and empire. Heck we even have fancypants hillbillies in the form of our dear HE woodsmen the white lions. I wouldn't call them hillbillies. fact of the matter is that I don't see how you invented anything new or added anything worthwhile to the universe. The humans in Ye old world, apart from the chaos tribes have a strong need for leaders, and they may be dumb, but they wouldn't be as you described them. If any such behaviour was seen in battle, they would be seen as Slaanesh worshippers and hunted down! Furthermore why would they deal with the dwarves? They are much to fond of there honour to let them even come close to their home, and much less employ them? Orcs and Goblins have no use for them, save the free meal of human flesh. The beast of chaos? How? Why? And again the question with Lizardmen? Even if there were logic explantions to why they would be there, and the race would hire them (in most cases instead of eating them), there is still the problem with how they came to be DoW? If they just case around after a girl in the middle of a battle (then they must have brought her themselves?) are they really getting paid? Why would inbreed humans be traveling ye old world with their dirty weapons fighting for others while bringing some girl?
It doesn't fit any fluff IMO, and it doesn't make a sense...

On a final note (cause I am getting sleepy here): How would their weapons be more dirty than the milita of the empire or the peasants from bretonia? They use their own tools, like the thing they use to mow feceas of the ground from their animals, on the battlefield! I don't see why an ogre would feel so bad about getting dirty... have you read a book on there lifestyle? They eat everything!
 

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Would you considerded them to be fair when I would ad the following rule:

Scanvengers: as hillbillies have no general grasp about "leadership" and "being impressive", they can never modify there leadership under any sircumstances, not by any magic items the hiring armie might have, or by the presence off the general within 12 inch. They cant be joined by any characters either.
It would help somewhat, but the thing I have the most problems with is the 'dirty weapons' actually, its crazy how much damage that can deal out to multi-wound models... because... they are dirty? The darkelves use extensive amount of poison, and fluffwise a lot of warriors would also coat their weapons with poison, but that shouldn't have any effect on the game!
sounds better?

P.S.:
the ws is not that important for hitting stuf, it is important to be hit. A unit off three oger bulls will probabply have the charge on them (having a 12 inch charge). 3 impact hits will kill 2 billies, 9 attacks will do 6 hits, and kill another 4... with 6 guys that, there are about 3 that can strike back, and even with 9 attacks, that wont do more then 2 wounds... Imagining thee is a unit of 20, the ogers still wint the combat on average by three, letting the billies lose there frenzy imidiatly, and test on an impressive LD 3.
The ogers cost 55 points less then the the billies.
4 would be able to hit back... Furthermore the two wounds would become 3 wounds due to the dirty rule. This would mean the billies would get for outnumbering and 3 wounds... The ogres would have 6 for the killing, maybe a standard -2 to their weak Ld, which would be solved by the hero adding. If on the other hand the aforementioned rule was in place they would be defeated (and a lot closer to balance).
One thing I briefly touched upon in the first post is the fact: We already have 2 units of hillbillies in warhammer, the peasants and militia by bret and empire. Heck we even have fancypants hillbillies in the form of our dear HE woodsmen the white lions. I wouldn't call them hillbillies. Fact of the matter is that I don't see how you invented anything new or added anything worthwhile to the universe. The humans in Ye old world, apart from the chaos tribes have a strong need for leaders, and they may be dumb, but they wouldn't be as you described them. If any such behavior was seen in battle, they would be seen as Slaanesh worshippers and hunted down! Furthermore why would they deal with the dwarves? They are much too fond of their honour to let them even come close to their home, and much less employ them? Orcs and Goblins have no use for them, save the free meal of human flesh. The beast of chaos? How? Why? And again the question with Lizardmen? Even if there were logic explanations to why they would be there, and the race would hire them (in most cases instead of eating them), there is still the problem with how they came to be DoW? If they just case around after a girl in the middle of a battle (then they must have brought her themselves?) are they really getting paid? Why would inbreed humans be traveling ye old world with their dirty weapons fighting for others while bringing some girl?
It doesn't fit any fluff IMO, and it doesn't make a sense...

On a final note (cause I am getting sleepy here): How would their weapons be more dirty than the militia of the empire or the peasants from bretonia? They use their own tools, like the thing they use to mow feces of the ground from their animals, on the battlefield! I don't see why an ogre would feel so bad about getting dirty... have you read a book on there lifestyle? They eat everything!
 
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