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This is mostly a repetition of a post I made in the Army Builder thread since I felt I was raising alot of questions about how to play VC.

I've started recently to play the new VC having been slightly affiliated with them before. I still love the idea of a magic heavy VC army, especially now with the changes to necromancy. However, I'm mostly playing very small games at the moment since I don't have that many models up yet and because the campaign I'm in is just kicking off really (We're on our second campaign year and loads of unclaimed areas around!).

Here's the list I used yesterday (first time playing them).

Heinlich the Harvester
Necromancer
-Sceptre de Noirot
- Invocation of Nehek
- Raise Dead
Mounted on a Corpse Cart

= 170

15 x Skeletons
- Champion
- Musician

= 132

15 x Grave Guard
- Seneschal
- Musician

= 198

Total: 500 pts.

In theory I was going to advance in a tight block and summon up a horde of zombies somewhere close to the obvious path to my Grave guard to dissuade the bristling bretonnian lance charge I saw headed for me from across the field. It actually worked! I summon up 10 zombies, they charged them and wiped them out and rolled a measly 5 on their advancement thingy so their flank was wide open for my grave guard. Sadly they ran from my charge, regrouped and smashed them to bits while some yeomen assassinated my corpse cart and necromancer and peasants tossed rocks at my skellies from a tower 'till they died.

What I need most is advice I think. How to manage my unit selection and tactics in such a small game since wiping out the undead seems abit too easy really! (An example was that lance charge, it hit and wiped out the entire front rank of my grave guard which then got no hits in return which meant 5 more got wiped out. Rinse and repeat!)
In the second game I was acting as a 200 point mercenary for some beastmen. It was a naval battle and was quite exciting. There I had the following.

Heinlich the Harvester
Necromancer
-Sceptre de Noirot
- Invocation of Nehek
- Raise Dead


= 95

8 x Grave guard
- Musician

=102

Total: 197 points


Here however I kicked ass. The necromancer summoned zombies every round save for one, filling my barge with the hungry dead. At the end I had summoned around 57 zombies which gave my necromancer time enough to escape with the treasure objective. However my zombies did next to no damage and my grave guard, while standing their ground for awhile, got massacred by the elven and empire boarding actions and combat resolution stuff.

So what I'm looking for is any advice for a low point list (500 - 800 points) and how people deal with units like the bretonnian knights in such small games.
 

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This is mostly a repetition of a post I made in the Army Builder thread since I felt I was raising alot of questions about how to play VC.

I've started recently to play the new VC having been slightly affiliated with them before. I still love the idea of a magic heavy VC army, especially now with the changes to necromancy. However, I'm mostly playing very small games at the moment since I don't have that many models up yet and because the campaign I'm in is just kicking off really (We're on our second campaign year and loads of unclaimed areas around!).

Here's the list I used yesterday (first time playing them).

Heinlich the Harvester
Necromancer
-Sceptre de Noirot
- Invocation of Nehek
- Raise Dead
Mounted on a Corpse Cart

= 170

15 x Skeletons
- Champion
- Musician

= 132

15 x Grave Guard
- Seneschal
- Musician

= 198

Total: 500 pts.

In theory I was going to advance in a tight block and summon up a horde of zombies somewhere close to the obvious path to my Grave guard to dissuade the bristling bretonnian lance charge I saw headed for me from across the field. It actually worked! I summon up 10 zombies, they charged them and wiped them out and rolled a measly 5 on their advancement thingy so their flank was wide open for my grave guard. Sadly they ran from my charge, regrouped and smashed them to bits while some yeomen assassinated my corpse cart and necromancer and peasants tossed rocks at my skellies from a tower 'till they died.

What I need most is advice I think. How to manage my unit selection and tactics in such a small game since wiping out the undead seems abit too easy really! (An example was that lance charge, it hit and wiped out the entire front rank of my grave guard which then got no hits in return which meant 5 more got wiped out. Rinse and repeat!)
In the second game I was acting as a 200 point mercenary for some beastmen. It was a naval battle and was quite exciting. There I had the following.

Heinlich the Harvester
Necromancer
-Sceptre de Noirot
- Invocation of Nehek
- Raise Dead


= 95

8 x Grave guard
- Musician

=102

Total: 197 points


Here however I kicked ass. The necromancer summoned zombies every round save for one, filling my barge with the hungry dead. At the end I had summoned around 57 zombies which gave my necromancer time enough to escape with the treasure objective. However my zombies did next to no damage and my grave guard, while standing their ground for awhile, got massacred by the elven and empire boarding actions and combat resolution stuff.

So what I'm looking for is any advice for a low point list (500 - 800 points) and how people deal with units like the bretonnian knights in such small games.
This sounds like a ridiculously fun campaign. I wish our club would do something like that.

Unfortunately, you're going to have problems, no matter what you do. VC is not meant to be played at small points. Even with the price cuts (pointwise) they are still a relatively expensive army to field at such a small point level. You have ZERO shooting, which is usually what wins small point games. Your army is usually pretty magic dependent, and magic is usually pitiful in small point games.

I can give you a few pointers generally, but it will require you to toss your old lists out the window. Let me know if there are some special rules with your campaign and I'll try to help with those as well. I think you need to take the battle to the enemy quickly (to avoid the shooty armies) and strongly ( so the enemy can't regroup). I would get a small unit of Zombies, a unit of Black Knights, A wight King/Vampire Knight, whichever is cheaper and then spend whatever's left on as many 5 dog units of Dire Wolves. You have to outmaneuver and surround the enemy quickly, charge them with direwolves ont he flank and break them. So your list would look something like this. The dire wolves split up and surround the enemy herd, and then pounce on them as the Black Knights hit from the front. Dire wolves are great at removing expensive warmachine crew, with fear and outnumber. They are great at screening your black knights and using their superior movement to surround and flank the enemy.

Core 160
5 DireWolves x3
10 Zombies
Special 175
5 Black Knights FC, Warbanner
Hero
Wight King, shield, Hvy Armor, lance, magical hoo-haw as points allow.
 

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I like the way buckero0 is going with this list but a couple problems...

zombies have to be 20 blocks minimum in the new book
and dire wolves don't count as core to fill the minimum core choices

but from the original post with only skeletons as core maybe in this campaign it doesn't matter? (remembering corpse cart doesn't count either)

As to my suggestions... I'm not sure I too having been having problems at lower point levels. In fact I haven't won a game yet with the new book. :p

Its a tough situation because VC need a strong vampire character to get some kills and yet at their high cost its tough to squeeze one in :?

totally not helpful I know... sorry :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The rules for the campaign are quite elaborate, but the ones that have directly to do with unit selection are (hope I'm remembering this correctly):
There has to be atleast one core choice
There has to be a hero leading the army, if he is named he gains xp and advances in power using a certain xp and skill table. However, having a named hero means he runs the risk of being captured or killed so it's a gamble (the opponent also gains more xp for killing or capturing named characters).


These are the rules governing the small games, other more generic rules also come into effect in "standard sized" battles like 1000 and 2000 points.

Buckero0 :
I think it's an interesting list! I've got some black knights laying about and I've got the spearhead (so Dire wolves aplenty). I've even picked up some models I plan on converting to a wight king.
It's very different from what I've usually thought of fielding. The lack of a spellcaster to replenish them "feels" risky due to the undead prevalence for crumbling all over the place. But it seems like it can hit hard and fast, I can choose my own battles and perhaps negate some of the hurt via flank charges and such.
I'd skip the 10 zombies, the minimum unit size is 20 now anyways, and since I can't summon more of them anyways they'll most likely die as soon as someone tips 'em over. But they could act as a disctraction, which is positive.

I worry that VC are too frail to try to "lock horns" with some of the hard hitting armies out there. To try to match 'em in sheer power could be hard.
The main players in the campaign have the following races: Beastmen, Bretonnians, Ogre Kingdoms, Skaven, Wood elves, Dwarves, High elves.
Then there are mercenaries who are players who basically joined late. You can join as a mercenary anytime but here are some of the others who are playing: Another VC player, Empire mercenary scum and Dark elves.

So far I've been trying to focus on being able to out-magic them and to keep a strong center of some hard hitting unit (Grave guard). I made some mistakes in the first game, was overconfident of my zombies and didn't appreciate the lethality of ranged attacks. I also overestimated the protection of mounting my necromancer on a corpse cart.
If people have further advice for fielding necromancer led, low point VC armies that'd be great. But please don't hesitate to post your ideas for viable low point lists, they all help!

As for the campaign it's great fun, though so far I've only been involved in two battles. It's fun to watch and some really awesome grudges are appearing as characters face each other on the field time and time again. Your hero can get wounded (lose an arm, eye etc) so players sculpt their heroes appropriately which just lends to the feel of it.
At the moment there's a Empire mercenary commander limping home in his ship brooding over that a frail necromancer managed to outrun him carrying the treasure and I'm sure the player will offer his services against me a later time.
Here's a map of the world for those more interested in it. The campaign is played in seasons. Each season you can make a single move to try to claim land and during winter the armies hole up and you roll 2d6 on a winter event table which can produce anything from a peasant revolt to a plentiful harvest. Us mercenaries are also limited to a single action per season. We can either hire out our services as mercs or attempt to raid a claimed piece of land that is by the sea or upriver. If we do the player loses the benefits for that tile for the rest of the season and we claim the seasonal taxation gold. Tiles may contain wizards towers, fortesses, magical foci that help the entire army, so mercs are often hired to disrupt vital points in a enemies empire.
That's enough ranting from me ^^

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
 
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