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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a bit bored and I thought I would ask if anyone thinks it would be cool if the next codex our Psycannons got a third shooting mode, more of a tank busting version with say 2/3 extra strength and ap1 (normal range depending on movement or still, or termi armour) but only a single shot.

Would make the weapon infinitely more useful (possibly OP) but also negate the issue with GK not being mounted somewhat!
I do realise that generally the lower strength shots are more useful but it would make it a viable weapon against any tank instead of just 'some'
 

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It would be cool but i think they should come out with a special heavy weapon for grey knights that has 10 str 2 ap single shot would be good too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Prefer str 9 AP1, the AP1 on the damage table is worth more by far, but if its on a seperate weapon you end up losing all the flexibility, unless its say 24" assault
 

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Well that depends. Would I like it in that would it be an awesome gun? Hell yes. But would I dislike it in that it would have to cost 50ish points for it to be fair? Hell yes. Any cheaper and that's just a ridiculous gun.

I would rather just have a seperate gun with those kind of stats. We already have the problem of most of our units being too good all round, making them really expensive because you're paying for multiple skills but you can never really capitolise on them all. The same applies to weaponry.
 

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I'd really like the idea, but as superwill mentions, it would be only fair for a high price, even more then ~50.
And in case you wanna field a pure GK army, you want to field as many models as possible which makes the whole thing not really that great anymore.

That's why I think they should rather have a squad that focuses on Anti Tank, maybe special Bolts for the Psycannon that makes it 48" S9 AP1 Heavy 2 (and loses the other 2 shootings).
 

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Doesn't really fit the description of the psycannon.

A 'fluffy' choice would be either a separate weapon designed for destroying daemonic constructs or a psychic power.
 

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Well atm you are able to take Psybolts for the Stormbolter,
why not some sort of Bolts that do exaclty what you mention "destroying daemonic constructs", instead of the regular shots the Psycannon has to offer.
Maybe even with some bonus against Soulgrinder and alike, to keep it with the fluff?
 

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Stormbolters are already common wargear, available to several armies so upgrading them with a special ammunition for each army sees like a viable idea.

A Psycannon is already a specialist weapon for DH only. The choice to give that special ammo in a similar manner doesn't work so well.

On the upside, I do agree that we need something a bit more creative than a 'Heavy Psycannon'...

Str9, AP1 sounds good. If it were Str10 AP1 cannons the Tau players would start complaining that their speciality isn't so unique anymore.

I just say, invent another weapon or two. The Exorcisor, the banisher, the purity cannon... ...well they are rubbish. I'm sure you lot can do better,
 

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maybe special Bolts for the Psycannon that makes it 48" S9 AP1 Heavy 2 (and loses the other 2 shootings).
My word, half your armies points would go into that weapon should you use a few, because that is a lascannon just made over 4 times as good.

I think the weapon should have AP2, not AP1, because AT is supposed to be our weakness, and AP2 will still get through any daemonically possessed dudes armour. Just give it +1 on the damage chart against Daemon vehicles.
 

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Hmmm, bringing up 'daemonic vehicles' brings in the ideas.

How about giving the psycannon an additional D6 (so S6 + 2D6) damage against chaos vehicles. Its not a too powerful or weak when requiring to penertrate AV14. Perhaps you would only get that extra D6 at 18" (Assault mode)
 

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AP2 with +1 bonus to against Deamon Vehicles sounds good but really only under the condition that it looses the other capabilites.

The additional D6 wouldn't work in my eyes, since then the Psycannon would be way to powerful if against all Vehicles (incl Chaos and possessed), or pointless (if just against Possesed Vehicles). To powerful or way to expensive to ever be fielded.
 

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I think it would be a bit more fluffy instead of a gun to have psychic power that was something of the sort like Bolt of change from Tzeentch. something like 36-48 S=9 or maybe S= the number of gks in squad
 

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When I wrote an entire update for grey knights in 5th I had the following weapon added.

Purifier Cannon: Range 24", Strength 9, AP 3, Heavy 1, Ignores invulnerable saves.
- secondary: Range 12", Strength 9, AP 3, Assault 1, Ignores invulnerable saves.

It is plus 20 points (30 for characters) and replaces their stormbolter.
 

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personally i dont think heavy weapons are the ideal guns fluff wise and practically speaking for GK- Inquisition yes! GK are noted as mid range to cc specialist. at long range we are not the best and if we where to get such a long range weapon ( any thing 36 or over) then it would be unfair as shrouding would make it difficult to fire back at. The only heavy weapon is the psycannon and it has an assualt mode.

As for the psychic power its not possible as not all greykinghts are able to manifest that much power, only heros can take an additional psychic and even though they are all psykers to an extent- it is traditional for them to not use psychic powers. Shourding is as psychic as some gk will get and its not that strong because they are not suppose to tap into the warp a great deal. Just imagine tapping into the warp when fighting in an area where space is already unstable enough to let daemons in. If they tap just a little bit too much well... another squad to fight.

Finally the mid range weapon with high S and Ap is not bad but again that weapon i think would be highly costly, personally i would go with a close combat- NFW and give it something like rending or plus D3 S against armour. it would still be hard to take down a tank but it is possible- difficult thing is getting into the tank. It would cheap or free and doesnt take away from fluff- heck i would mind if they gave NFW rending against all units.
 

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NFW rending on PAGKs only, if they had to at all. If your suggesting it for anyone else then is unneeded. I just don't see GKs needing a variety of different NFW rules. The power-by-rank works superbly and I think anyone asking for extras is getting greedy / scraping for more complexing additions.

As to psychic powers, I've always felt the Grand Masters could attain Chief Librarian levels of power easily. Their knowledge of, experience with, and fortitude against the warp would make them much more skillful at handling their power than any other psykers. You are defintely right to note that not all GKs are on the same levels. Its seems that it is through centuries of experience and training that they can build on their initial powerbase to attain such power.
Also, in terms of the game you can't really have a whole army of spell-casting psykers so GW had to rightfully tone it down.

If the myths about them being based on the Emperor's Geneseed are true (and let's face it we all like to believe it is) then that would surely give them a great range for absorbing and controlling their power too.

Finally, back to the topic - heavy weapons. One extra heavy weapon isn't going to remove the focus from the mid-range/ CC-specialist role that GKs play. Sisters play a similar mid-range role and they have the exocists' weapon. From a gaming point of view they do need something, be it weapon or spell to make them more competitve in a 5th Ed environment which is very mech heavy.
 

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from what i read the rending idea is better than a heavy weapon or psychic power because it matches tradition and simplicity of gaming.

GK good at CC and mid range.
Making them good at long range is just ubsurd and unbalanced.

WH have seperate units that are good at seperate things... GK with a heavy weapon/psychic power that destroys tanks! I think sur your asking to have a cake and eat it too.

rending helps the tank problem without making them overpowered. not saying its the best idea just saying by opinion that i dont like the idea of running a perfect army.

and yes only rending on power PAGK is what i was thinking. GKT have thunderhammer option and thats just fine.

base line is posed mass psyker army or heavy weapon GK.
 

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But if you create a single unit to address each of the armies flaws, then suddenly you've got an army with all strengths and no weaknesses. And FWIW, we do actually have options already. Dreads with TLLC and ML are pretty solid tankbusters, and then suicide squads are a cheap backup. They might not be the greatest options, but the reality is that unless we have no ability to bust tanks, then simply because we don't have ideal options doesn't mean we need a brand new incredible weapon, with people talking about strength 9 AP1 36-48", or the melta rule from 18" away. Those are the kinds of guns you expect to see in anti-armour specialist armies, not GK, which as Jimicomix mentioned are not that at all. And even in an anti-armour specialist army you would still find those weapons incredible. But I do understand that as far as all armies having strengths and weaknesses go, poor anti-armour is an unfortunate weakness to have.

I really like the rending NFW idea though. Would mean we don't need some new unit to take away from the fluff, and rending NFW makes perfect sense. Would partially address the tank issue, as well as be really handy against infantry.
 

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Okay interesting, I think I understand you now. How would it work with Justicars upwards? Considering you don't tend to get rending and power weapons together, would they attain a similar ability against armour too?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Rending is a hard one, more likely as a choice instead of the strength bonus of a NFW.
It still kind of feels like stealing someone elses army rules though, in some ways.
Also psycannons are already limited use, more common on termies for the moving and shooting, and this would make them more viable for a non mech list, which hopefully GK will be viable for since they arren't traditionally a list that is meant to rely upon vehicles at all.
Claiming that giving the psycannon a mode that actually makes it viable against tanks, at the same range as it is now not being fluff accurate is kind of stupid and illogical, 24-36" is mid range these days, although say giving rending to the psycannon without the strength increase for a bonus d6 against vehicles on a roll of 6 would be interesting.
Never the less the army is going to change, and giving them a proper anti tank weapon in the age of mech is far more grey knightly than the other options of either giving vehicle transports or many of the other suggestions. Afterall the lore says they are meant to be equipped with some of the most advanced weapons possibly, and with so many newer 13/14 armour vehicles its hard to say that str 6 cuts it, even with volume of shots.
Making it 24" for tank busting I could understand but then it needs to be assault which is argueably even more powerful since with movemnt thats a 30" range.
 
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