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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wonder if any knows where I could find the Unversial psyhic powers? Plus, would any of you be offend if I used the adversersy psyhic powers from Witchhunters codex if you played me? The major psyhic power suck so much for chaos.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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The minor powers are in UK WD 258 and in CHapter Approved 2003 and I think 2004. They are not that good though. A couple of them are funny and could even be considered good but mainly it's not.
And the Adverseries spells:) Now, I would not let you use them. I would even consider stop playing WH ( if I ever had) to prevent you. Those are some powerful psychic powers alright, but I would not let you use them. Did I mention I wouldn't let you use them?;)

I do not agree that the Chaos powers are bad however, they are awsome. There could well have been a couple of more intricate ones, other then weapon-alikes and Gift/mutation, but I think they are good as they are.

If it was not for the Librarians out psyching and hooding us to death I would never complain.
 

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Those powers are the little know counterbalance to the cheese that is called faith. Use them with impunity against sisters. . . but if I'm not playing sisters (wich I don't) then I won't allow them either. Puppet dance/master (can't remember the exact name) is just too good, the other are allright, but not any better than what chaos has at their disposal already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
JORMAGI said:
Those powers are the little know counterbalance to the cheese that is called faith. Use them with impunity against sisters. . . but if I'm not playing sisters (wich I don't) then I won't allow them either. Puppet dance/master (can't remember the exact name) is just too good, the other are allright, but not any better than what chaos has at their disposal already.
I disagree with bother of you, 50 points to obtain a good minor power from one of the gods? Eh, no. And the major powers are not that great, not even game changing. Period.

Oh this is hilarious, 1000 Son players have access to the adverseries list through Ahriman. Sweet, I am going to get his model.
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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I disagree with bother of you, 50 points to obtain a good minor power from one of the gods? Eh, no. And the major powers are not that great, not even game changing. Period.
No psychic powers are game changing on a regular basis anymore, that is a thing of the past and we can all be glad for it. If your lookign for game winning/changing psychic powers then your in the wrong game. Period.

The minor psychic powers are a gamble, that the way they are. The fact that there are really good ones in there is counterbalanced by teh fact that they are not for sure. The major psychic powers available to chaos are mostly pretty good. There a few stinkers, but for the most part they are all well balanced and easily used just as effectively as Eldar or SM ones.

And as for the adversaries thing the rules are simple..you cannot use those powers unless you are playing against WH...and the they are not Chaos psychci powers per se, they are generic. That means that they are not available through Ahriman.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Oh Sabe you are so wrong. It says that Ahriman can make a roll on any one minor and major psyhic table.... and the adversersie's table is a table (obviously) and I can take it. Read it Sabe.
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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I'm reading it as we speak...it says he can take a roll on any one of the chaos minor psychic tables(which are in the chaos codex) or the "minor psychic powers" tables (which are in CA and do not include the WH ones.

Not only that but the WH adversary powers aren't even classified as minor, they just are psychic powers that you Can roll for if you take the Psychic Apocalypse special rule when facing WH. The rogue psyker can choose them.

There is no way you can justify the WH adversary psychic powers(which are clearly stated to be only usable when fighting WH by a NON-PSYKER or a ROGUE PSYKER[which is only available when fighting WH]) as powers takable by Ahriman. They aren't minor psychic powers and not only that but the minor psychic powers ahriman can roll for are all either in the chaos codex or in CA....not in the WH codex.

I can quite well asure you that I am perfectly right, not wrong as you might believe. You may wish to create your own rules or discuss with those whom with you play with and see if they want to let you roll for the adversary powers with ahriman, but as it stand he can't roll for them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah I know, denial. I just hate the psyhic powers that we have.
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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Perhaps your just having trouble finding a proper way to use them? You should post a list, see if we can maybe fix it up to make better use of some powers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
no... when i mean psyhic power, i mean the major ones, they blow. one out of all of them is only worth using. Slannesh has the best powers (minor), such Fuelled by Pain and Siren, sweet.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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LictorInTheGrass said:
one out of all of them is only worth using.
This sounds really strange to me. I like more then one I must say.
Wind of Chaos is one awsome awsome template. Two in a turn if you use thralls (this goes for all spells though, I''ll try not to repeat it)
Gift of Chaos is one of the most frightening CC-attacks I have seen. When I snipe the powerdist-wielding backbone of an enemy-unit, the owning player usually goes quite pale.
Bolt of Change...need I say more?
Doombolt I sometimes field a unit with an additional HQ, both him and the champ with thralls. They harvest I assure you.
Twisting pa.... never mind.

Which is the one power you fancy and find is worth using?
 

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I'm confused by the minor psychic power rules. If I pay for 1 minor psychic power, do I roll once per turn for the power I get? or once at the beginning of the game?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Erm... you pay for X number powers, and you can always use them to the applied turn. One Major or all minor powers. Re-rolled repeats of taken powers.

As for the Major spells I just don't think the points invested are worth it, and the one power I was talking about was Wind of Chaos, seems only worth it. Putting faith in rolling a single six, is bad statistically.
 

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Kellster you roll at the beginning of the game and you keep the ones you get.

Lictor, I think I know where you are comming from. . .
Back in the days of Second Edition, there where 3 types of models (not counting tanks) troops (that died quickly, but needed to keep the others from being outnumbered too bad in CC), characters (that did much of the killing), and gods. Gods would annilate everything else in the game. They where at risk only to being swamped in CC, and sometimes not even then.
These gods where often psykers. They would throw out major carnage several times a turn, and could single handedly destroy their opponents army. They where so powerful that you needed a psyker to do something about your opponents or you would loose.
Second edition felt a lot like fantasy warhammer, great heros clash with mighty wizards with the help of some troops. (they still do it that way with fantasy cause it works for the fluff.)

Come third edition GW decides to take the empasis off of a few powerful models, and make troops the focus of the game. They suceeded. One of the biggest changes was a huge nerf on psykers, and the killing of the psychic phase. This was good because now you could field one and your opponent can pass on one and both players feel ok about it. In these days Chaos had some of the coolest and most powerfull abilities in the game (same ones we still have), and few could compare to Tzeenich in psychic might. Because these abilitys where unusual and powerful chaos paid a lot of points for them and that was ok because the chances of them failing where small. (Rare psychic hoods, and Tzeenich doesn't roll psychic tests.)

Somewhere mid to late third edition GW starts getting nastalgic about psychic powers. (They blatantly say so in the CA that gives the minor psychic powers. They decide that they would like psychic powers more powerfull, but also, a as a balance, a greater risk.

So the evolution began:
First came minor psychic powers: with the exception of slaneesh they really didn't take off. Too expensive and not enough benifit.
Next came Daemonhunters: their powers are a little cheaper, but not overly so, however they prove to be equal to anything chaos has (though of a definite anti-daemon bend) However they also introduce Grey Knight's Aegis. It was a power to counter Chaos' superior psychic powers, and suddenly psykers started worrying about getting their powers off.
Later came Witchhunters: again an anti-psyker protection. No psychic powers, but faith is a game altering substitute.

Then came time for GW to come out with a new edition, partially to clear up things that didn't work as intended in 3rd, but also to get more money from us by requiring a new rulebook. GW took this time to look critically at things, and decided that they wanted psykers even tougher.

Then came 4th edition, and the great stirup. The rules for psychic powers did not change.

Then we get the space marine codex, and it turns heads. Librarian comes standard with hood & force weapon. Ok marines are now hard to stick powers on. But wait! they pay a pittance for their powers. Compare Bolt of Change against the cost of Fear of the Dark (may have butchered the name.) I can't post them due to forum rules, but shesh you can't say that Bolt of change is that much better, heck you can't even say that it's remotly as powerful. Other librarian powers are also effective, and cost a fraction of chaos' powers.

Now chaos has many opponents that can effectivly nullify their psychic powers, and while nothing has changed to them in particular, they just are not as powerful as they once where, and in comparison they often find themselves outclassed, or matched at a fraction of the cost. To add insult to injury chaos cannot return the nullifying that the imperials are now so fond of.

So does Chaos' psychic lineup suck? No, but we overpay for our good powers, and that does put us at a disadvantage. But I also believe that GW has at least a vague idea of what they're doing, and that the new Chaos codex when it eventually comes out will fix that situation, and bring our psychic might into line with our loyalist cousins. (I expect price drops on most psychic powers in the new codex. . . I also suspect that thralls might be made more expensive in compensation.)

Anyway this is all my opinion and observations, don't think I bothered to take the time to actually research any of this, consider it more my perception of the direction of the game.

So hang tight and we'll get the goodies too (with psykers, outside or sorceres we already rock.)
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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I really feel that the marines getting overall better psychic might was more of a balance issue than anything. You say that GW might boost those back up in their next revision of the chaos codex but I find that hard to swallow. Perhaps if they had expanded the marines armory to half the size of chaos's or given them a MC maybe, but as it stand the marines overall better psychic armory is a balancing issue against an army that already has a lot of cards to play against them(CSM).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I just think that as the army with the most direct link to the WARP should have the best powers, in this case make the Key standard for us.
 

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I believe that getting the traits was a balance issue. They have plenty of things to keep things even. If you remove psychic from both lists then I honestly feel that they are well ballanced against each other. I feel that marines got the psychic boost because that's GW's new vision for psychic powers: more powerful, less reliable. Each individual power is weaker in the latest incarnation of the game, not intrinsicly, but due to the higher chances of the power getting dispelled. So it only makes sense that they cost less. That's why marines powers cost less than Chaos powers.

On the other hand Chaos has tooling options that allow for a lot of power on a single character. So for this reason I don't think we're likely to see Loyalist point costs on our powers. I do expect, well at least hope for about a 5 point (ish) drop on average on all powers. And access to a hood or some other way of nullifying psychic powers. (something that raises the odds of a perils of the warp attack would be fluffy.)

I'm not holding my breath, but it is my predictions on the direction that GW is taking the game. I guess we'll see if I'm right when the new codex comes out in 2 years or something like that. (last I heard we're not very high on the priority list.) However I also expect the same sort of stuff comming in the new eldar codex, that one shouldn't be too far off. If I'm wrong there I'll retract my thinking.
 
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