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Benevolent Dictator
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9,222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Pts Values for AoS

This project is now complete
-to the extent that I have posted values for every faction currently available as either free PDF downloads from GW, Forgeworld, or as Battletome lists. The exception would be named characters, as many named characters have very powerful special rules which do not "play well" with the formula (explained later). As such, I am editing this initial post to explain where the project has found itself, and the theory behind it.
The Idea: Making AoS play like 8th
As you probably know, Age of Sigmar is lacking two major elements of all previous Warhammer games; firstly, they have removed the traditional "rank and file" regiment from the game, and all models now move in 40k style 'blobs'. Secondly, and more importantly, they have removed any type of balancing mechanic from the game, including the points values. Without these balancing mechanics, players were left on their own to figure out how to create equally matched forces, and while careful discussion with your opponent could sometimes "ballpark" a fair game, it was hardly a foolproof system. Other players adopted a system which balanced by wounds, and that had it's own drawbacks as soon as you realized that a 2W model is rarely as powerful as a pair of 1W troops, and so on.

If I was going to return AoS to the style of "traditional" games of Warhammer, the first thing to tackle would be assigning points costs. This is important not only for playing AoS in the fashion of older editions, but also for playing AoS in general. The game seemed to be begging for a balance mechanic.
You are probably aware that AoS has done away with the complex charts and tables from previous editions - models now Hit and Wound on flat, unmodified numbers. This makes the "math hammer" for these values very linear, and ultimately, this is what allowed me to make a reasonably balanced formula to determine points values. The formula itself is quite complex, but at it's most basic, I determined the average stat values To Hit, To Wound, Rend, and Save and assigned them a points value of 7. From there, I tested and "Math Hammered" every warscroll in every faction, with every wargear option - against this average. By reversing from the end of the combat with both sides at 0 Wounds, I was able to determine how many of the 7pt "baseline" models it would take to destroy any particular Warscroll unit.

Next came adding the classic "rank and file" elements of the previous editions. This has absolutely no bearing on AoS games - it is possible to use only the points values - but it helps to make the game palatable to veteran players, and also polishes some of the more unusual elements of the (very sparse) AoS rules. Rather than creating entirely new rules however, I wanted to use AoS as a foundation and work from there. The rules I have written - which I call the "Realmgate Legions" - are guidelines for how units would interact if they were deployed in rigid formations during a normal game of AoS. The units still move, fight, and interact as exactly as they would in the basic game, and no new rules are added, or existing rules changed in any way except to restrict players from making certain choices that would normally be allowed in the core ruleset.

Why 'Realmgate Legions' and not '9th Age' or a similar '8.5' reboot?
Initially, I was working on a sort of 8.5 - a way to give 8th edition everything that we were promised in 9th. However, I saw that this was ultimately a dead-end. 8th edition is over, and nothing new will be released within that framework. GW has moved on to AoS now, and if we want to continue playing a supported and official game, we'll need to move on to AoS as well. If you want to play an unofficial edition such as 9th Age, that is fine - but why not just continue playing 8th? Both systems are unsupported and unofficial, and at the moment, 8th is more common and more widely understood than any fan-created offshoot.

I can determine the points values of any new Warscrolls released by Games Workshop in the future, and I intend to. When new models are released by GW, those of us playing with the AoS/Realmgate rules will be able to utilize those models, in exactly the same way we did when the End Times models were released during 8th. Importantly, the 'Realmgate Legion' rules do not break or violate any of the official Age of Sigmar rules. They only impose restrictions. If a person familiar with AoS games were to watch a game being played with the 'RGL' rules, they would not see anything "illegal", but would instead ask why players are not making particular choices or utilizing certain facets of the AoS rules, or why they are maintaining these rigid formations. A player might ask the same thing when two gamers choose to balance their forces by Wounds, or impose some kind of "thematic" restriction for a scenario. For this reason, the 'Realmgate Legion' rules should be accepted in official GW hobby stores. This was hugely important to me, because I want the 'Realmgate' rules to spread and grow. I want to see veteran gamers return to the fold, and I want to give new gamers a system that has enough tactical depth to not go stale. If formatted like the AoS core rules, the RGL rules are only 3 additional pages of content, and add a great deal to the game. I think that they are certainly worth giving a try - especially if you are a returning Fantasy player.

Reading the Entries
The warscrolls are presented in the same order that they appear in their PDFs or Battletomes. When reading them, the following rules apply:

1) If a particular wargear choice is not shown, assume that it is included in the cost. For example, a warscroll might say that a model is armed with either an Axe or a Flail, but if all that my entry says is: "Model - 10pts" then it means that the model will cost 10pts regardless of what wargear options you give it.

2) "Choose One Below" means exactly what it says - choose a model from the list below. This is common for units who have multiple types of wargear or options, many of which have differing points values. Some units also have a upgrades that are available only to certain numbers of models in the unit. These are not priced in addition, (unless you see a +Xpts) but rather, just "choose" that model as part of the unit.

3) Use common sense. If a warscroll describes a model as being armed with a "either a Chaos Axe or Chaos Flail" then do not assume that if you pay the +Xpts/Model for a Chaos Axe, you will get to keep the flail as well. Come on guys, use your heads.

Limitations of the Formula or How Balanced IS It?
Unfortunately, I can't claim that my formula for determining the points values is perfect (and as a disclaimer, no system ever is or will be). I can say that I applied the formula equally to all warscrolls across all of the factions, so if - for example - Wizards are somehow overpriced, then all Wizards will be overpriced.

Known concerns with my formula mostly stem from "non-attack" abilities. Things like buffing/nerfing abilities, auras, and so forth. This applies both to models like the Engine of the Gods and Warshrine, who apply buffs in a large area and target multiple units, but also to units - who get buffs by being near a certain other models, such as the bonuses that many Tomb King scrolls get when they are near a Necrotect.
One "fix" for this is to simply overlook it. With the Necrotect example, I charged players as if this model would be going into combat, however, putting it into combat means potentially losing it and the buffs that come with it. If a player chooses to hide the Necrotect safely behind the lines, then they are being assessed points for combat abilities that they are not utilizing, and I doubt that the minor buffs handed out are worth the points cost of that entire model not attacking.

Another concern is that some attacks are very nebulous. There are some attacks which hit every unit within a certain radius, or jump from one unit to another unit in range (Skaven lightning attacks, for example). Other attacks target every model in a unit. I have no way of knowing how many units will be in range, or how many models will be in a unit - so I had to estimate. I assessed all units by the same values (X units per radius in inches, or about 10 models per unit) but it's obviously not as perfect as the 1:1 ratio used for determining price of models in combat.

Because of the mathhammer nature of the formula, all that I was able to account for were direct kills with weapons - missile weapons and in melee, and spells. I did impose a 10% "movement adjustment" to models with M7+ to represent the advantage of being able to move slightly faster than their enemy. I also added scaling points for weapons that have more than the typical 1" of reach.

Preliminary tests indicate that the formula should be quite well ball-parked, and to be honest, I see the possibility for under/over priced units as a facet of the strategy in the game. Otherwise, there would be no reason to explore taking different units beyond just "I like how this one looks, etc". Finding particularly powerful combos that let you get more "bang or your buck" out of a unit or two, is encouraged. If anything seems truly devastatingly broken, let me know. I'll be using these rules as these points values in my own games of AoS and therefore will be updating them if I catch anything unusual.

OKAY - POINTS VALUES ARE WHAT EVERYONE ASKED FOR: NOW USE THEM!
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Finished Faction List!

The points-value posts for all of the factions, in order of completion. These factions are all completed, pending only intensive playtesting and the addition/inclusion of their Named characters. Points are listed for all Warscrolls currently available from Games-Workshop, all the way up through the current Battletome publications. I will try to complete any new factions as they are added or updated.

Brettonia
Warriors of Chaos
Vampire Counts
Tomb Kings
Skaven
Orcs and Goblins
Ogre Kingdoms
High Elves
The Empire
The Dwarfs
Dark Elves
Wood Elves
Beastmen
Daemons of Chaos
Lizardmen / Battletome: Seraphon
Battletome: Sigmarites
Battletome: Khorne Bloodbound
FW: Legion of Azorgh
FW: Tamurkhan Host, and Battletome: Everchosen
Battletome: FyreSlayers

"Realmgate Legion" Rules

-The 'Realmgate Legion' is my answer to the "8.5" rulesets coming out all across the web. This 3-page set of rules is intended to organize the AoS rules into regimented, "rank-and-file" gaming, with Victory Points and similar conditions that we are used to from previous editions of Warhammer Fantasy, but in a way that fits comfortably within the existing framework of 'Age of Sigmar'. As the RGL rules do not add any special rules, it should be acceptable to use them at your FLGS or GW store without earning the ire of the redshirts. The RGL rules are the same sort of "player agreement" that many gamers have already made when determining how to balance their games.
You can use the points values above with or without the 'Realmgate Legion' rules, just like your group can play the 'Realmgate Legion' rules without choosing to utilize the points values.
 

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ISIS Secret Agent Squishy
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1,875 Posts
Cap, I didn't read much of your initial post, but it seems that no matter what anyone does, GW have screwed Warhammer Fantasy into the ground, and it is irredeemably unrecoverable.
It'd be good to know why they hated their firstborn so much, that they crashed it off the cliff of the End Times and left it a vegetable in a story so boring and flavorless that its become a warpstorm-ed version of its younger sibling 40K...
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
After some thought, this might not be the end of it for assigning points to AoS. In all actuality, an 8th edition [email protected] would be just as doomed against a Chaos Warrior. By all rights, Chaos Warriors are drastically under-priced in all other editions. So why take [email protected] at all, even in 8th?

Tarpits.

I completely forgot about it. Just because the [email protected] no longer gain any benefit from fighting in ranks in AoS doesn't mean that they can't hold a line. In fact, in AoS, it's the total opposite effect - you never Flee. You always hold, you just crumble, a bit like Undead. So everything has effectively become a Skeleton, or Zombie.

Sure, one Warrior is going to kill 16 [email protected], but it's going to take him 28 rounds of combat to do it. Even in a match where battle is joined on T1 (rare, if not impossible) you only need to hold him 12 rounds at the most. And if you only need to hold him 12 rounds, you really only need 6-7 [email protected] to keep him tied in one place. Just 30pts of Brets could freeze a Chaos Warrior for the entire game. And that makes more sense as to why a Chaos Warrior in 8th costs far less than he really should.

I'll give some more thought as to how I could adjust the formula to account for this phenomenon. It might, however, just be a fact of life that there are two (or even more) "tiers" of unit types; the "they cost what they cost" horde-type tarpit units, and the "adjusted for inflation" elite regiments.

Funny thing, really - this is something that the devs of previous editions of WHFB already knew.
Guess I learn something every day, huh?
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Okay, so the system is not quite perfect.
The trouble with simply capping the "rounds to kill" at a certain number, was that after that limit, the only thing which affected the points cost of the unit was it's ability to keep killing more stuff. Not a good fix. So in the end, I decided that I would add a small raise in points (20% of the damage per round) for every additional round after that cut off. This means that units which could potentially "out last" a full game of combat against an "average" opponent, will now still have to pay for their added survivability, even once it becomes "overkill".

Where the "flaw" comes in, are where two units have the same "kill rate" against the average opponent, but different rates against each other. Notably, this happens with the Chaos Warrior and the Knight of the Realm. They cost an identical amount of points because they both kill an average of .55 models per turn, wear 4+ armor, have Bravery 6, and 2W. However, the Chaos Warrior achieves these kills by having Rend1, and the Knight achieves these kills by having a profile comprised of three attacks (1 rider, 2 horse). It takes 4 rounds for the Warrior to kill the Knight, and 5 rounds to for the Knight to kill the Warrior. On face value, this looks unfair. However in practice, it means that both units have specialized targets. Knights are best when used to slaughter stuff on the softer side of average - Rend is worthless against units without armor, but that's where the extra attacks really shine. Warriors are best used to kill bigger stuff than average, where their extra Rend is more useful. Just like in 8th.

I also have more news!
1) I'm working on setting the formula up so that I (and perhaps, eventually others) can simply type in statlines and effects and be able to generally get the entire value of weapons and so forth. Without having to do the math every time.

2) I have been grinding on the math for a few of the factions already, and plan to play a few test games. Part of these games will also include new "Regimental Combat" style rules. The idea here being to bring AoS more in line with what we were promised for a "9th edition".
There are lots of people (notably the '9th Age' guys) who are working on creating a sort of 8.5 ruleset, usually focused on polishing the rules from 8th, incorporating FAQs and common house-rules fixes, and some of the ETC stuff (in the case of 9th Age, which is also rewriting all Army Lists).
I was working on that as well, and might still return to it. However, the one thing that has put a damper on it all: AoS is here to stay, and is the only version that GW is supporting. New factions like the Sigmarites are going to be AoS-only. New models for any existing armies are going to have AoS style Warscrolls. If you want to keep playing Fantasy with up-to-date GW releases, you're going to be playing AoS.
To that end, my rules are going to be supplementary to the core AoS rules. They will utilize the new points costs, but also answer certain FAQ type questions that have come up (do you need a Zombie regiment to know 'Summon Zombies', etc) as well as other "house fixes" that players have adopted, and they will be written to return the game from "40k-style blobs" to the "regiment in square" formations that we've been playing with since day 1.
My rules will not be extensive. In the design language of AoS, they are meant to be small, probably no more than 4 pages, and easy to implement. Interestingly, they should be playable at GW stores, as they are not a different/competing ruleset and use nothing "unofficial" in regards to stats. Players are free to balance their games as they wish - if they choose to use my points values, then they may - if they wish to keep their units ordered and make "gentlemanly" agreements regarding how those units will move and fight - then they may. I can see no reason why any GW manager would nix these rules any more than they would have nixxed players agreeing (amongst themselves) to use Swedish or ETC comp in their games.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Bretonnia

Okay, as proof that yes, the formulas are done and dusted, I have the full points values for the Bretonnian army. I left the Named Characters out, and will be doing so for all of the books - let's face it, the named characters in AoS are ridiculous. Also, for dumb rules like the 'For the Lady!' on the Grail Knights (raise a cup aloft and shout, "For the Lady!" and you get to reroll your attacks) I assume that you always get that rule (more sensible, but you can still yell if you want).

Bretonnian Lord = 280pts
Pegasus, +10pts

Paladin = 233pts

Paladin Standard Bearer = 228pts

Damsel of the Lady = 78pts
Steed, +25pts
Pegasus, +30pts

Knight Errant = 23pts
Cavalier, +3pts
Banner, +10pts
Trumpeter, +10pts

Knight of the Realm = 26pts
Gallant, +3pts
Banner, +10pts
Trumpeter, +10pts

Questing Knight = 35pts
Paragon, +5pts
Banner, +10pts
Lutist, +10pts

Grail Knights = 41pts
Banner, +10pts
Trumpeter, +10pts
*For the Lady!: You are assumed to always get the reroll, no need for the Grail or the shouting.

Pegasus Knights = 45pts
Gallant, +4pts
Banner, +10pts
Trumpeter, +10pts

Battle Pilgrim = 8pts
Grail Reliquae, +25pts

Man At Arms = 5pts
Warden, +3pts
Banner, +10pts
Drummer, +10pts
Relic Bearer, +20pts

Bowman = 5pts
Villein (free)
Drummer, +10pts
Trumpeter, +10pts
Stakes, +10pts
Relic Bearer, +20pts
Burning Braziers, +1pt/model

Mounted Yeoman = 15pts
Warden, +3pts
Standard Bearer, +10pts
Trumpeter, +10pts

Field Trebuchet = 77pts
 

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Sparta!
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That is some good work you've done there. Like Borak, I haven't played AoS, and frankly have no intention too, so take everything that's said with a grain of salt.

It's an interesting range in points values that have been generated, and I'm quite surprised in the differnce - especially between infantry and cavalry. Cavalry has always been more expensive, and with very good reason, but that seems like a huge gap.

And it's curious that Grail Knights have come out less expensive than Questing. Why is that? I've just looked at the battlescroll(?) for the first time, and it's interesting to see that (on the surface) Questing Knights are better than Grail Knights. The Grail Knights get a bonus to damage for one turn, but in all other respects are now equal - at best - with Questing knights, worse against Monsters, and are actually less effective in protracted combats...even less effective considering you can include a Paragon in questing knights to further increase effectiveness


And I am surprised to see Longbowmen and [email protected] reach the same cost too - not sure why but I would have expected them to be different given what I've heard about the effectiveness of shooting in AoS.

It's also interesting to see that (from memory) the costs you've calculated for Knights Errant/KotR are similar to what they used to be under GW and the old Bret Codex, but then Grail and Questing are double that of the Errant/Realm, and yet the command upgrades are basically the same price as before - is that deliberate as well or just a happy coincidence?

And as an aside, after looking at the scroll, it's good to see GW have finally embraced the fact that the steeds are, more often than not, more deadly than the riders. The amount of times my knights have fluffed all their attacks only to have the horses pull them out of trouble...
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It's an interesting range in points values that have been generated, and I'm quite surprised in the difference - especially between infantry and cavalry. Cavalry has always been more expensive, and with very good reason, but that seems like a huge gap.
It's also interesting to see that (from memory) the costs you've calculated for Knights Errant/KotR are similar to what they used to be under GW and the old Bret Codex, but then Grail and Questing are double that of the Errant/Realm, and yet the command upgrades are basically the same price as before - is that deliberate as well or just a happy coincidence?
Well, I found an error in the formula that was causing "reach weapons" (melee weapons with greater than 1" range) to be assessed at 7x their intended value. So that was great...

I couldn't figure out the disparity at first either, and it was perplexing. Running tests, everything was taking 3 rounds to kill each other, and it was always in favor of the cheaper models*.

I think that I've figured it out though. I needed a "flat modifier". For example, whatever I set the 'Average Model' cost to be, that becomes the "modifier". So if I want the average statline to be worth 7pts (the amount that was kicking back those "similar" numbers you mentioned for Knights of the Realm and Knights Errant), then I set the modifier to x7. Originally, the modifier was set to x10 before I realized that it was spitting out numbers that were just huge and unwieldy. Nobody wants 10pt Marauders, for example.
Larger numbers have the advantage of giving a wider variety of points values, but they increase the disparity greatly when you start getting into the more expensive units (example, a model "pre-modifier" is worth 8.7pts, at x10 that's 87pts, but at x7 it's just 60.9). Adding smaller numbers also lowers the value of the "average" model, and therefore the points values of all models across the game, evenly - as I mentioned earlier.

So what I decided to do was add a "flat modifier". Rather than deciding that I would have a 7pt average model and using a x7 modifier, I decided to modify the points by (x5)+2. This keeps the average at 7pts, it also makes cheaper models slightly overcosted* and provides a sizable discount to the Elite models. Using that method (and the Reach fix) a Knight of the Realm costs 24pts and a Questing Knight is worth 31pts. Men At Arms are worth 4pts. These values are almost identical to those in the Armybook.

*There's something to be said for "cheap" models in AoS. Because of the way that the game was designed to be fair and balanced without points (I know, weird, considering all the whinging everyone's been doing), the "cheap" models like [email protected] are actually pretty capable of bogging down the elites. Firstly, without To Hit or To Wound modifiers, and very few Armor modifiers or armor better than 4+, it's a case of "Lascannon Volleys" - where simply inflicting a bunch of hits will sneak something through eventually, and wreck a 30pt model with ease. However, cheap models also have another trick up their sleeves. For every 10 models in a unit, they gain +1 Bravery, which is quite valuable in AoS. Additionally, most units have rules that kick in by 10-model increments, such as [email protected] getting +1 To Hit if there are at least 20 of them in the regiment. So making them somewhat "overcosted" is offset by the fact that there are often going to be larger regiments of them on the table, thereby triggering these extra effects.

And I am surprised to see Longbowmen and [email protected] reach the same cost too - not sure why but I would have expected them to be different given what I've heard about the effectiveness of shooting in AoS.
Shooting is effective in AoS, in that a unit can shoot into it's own ongoing combat. But you can only do this on your own turn, and you have to be alive in order to do it. [email protected] have a 5+ Save most turns, and are swinging away with a 5+4+ every turn. The Archers do have a 5+4+ ranged attack, but on the "off turn" they're swiging 5+/5+ swords, and theyonly have a 6+ save.
The formula is written so that Bravery and Armor both factor in to the cost of a unit. Together, they make up a sort of "survival" modifier - the number of rounds it would take to bring down a model using average attacks. Keep in mind that in AoS, you no longer Panic, but instead just straight "crumble" as though you were Undead (D6+Killed, compared to Bravery - you lose the difference). So with Ld4, for every 1 Archer or [email protected] you lose, you can almost count on losing 1 more.
Also, there is a +1pt assessment for every inch of "reach" on a melee weapon. So the [email protected] are closer to 2pts each, +1pt for fighting at longer range (or in extra ranks when blocked up).
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Warriors of Chaos

Daemon Prince w/ Daemon Axe – 615pts
of Khorne, 470pts
of Nurgle, 490pts
of Tzeentch, 440pts
of Slaanesh, 415pts
Fly, +20pts
Hellforged Sword, +25pts
*Sorcerers in your army may know the ‘Summon Daemon Prince’ spell for +150pts/Sorcerer. They do not know this spell automatically. Summoned Daemon Princes are worth 615pts, have no additional options or marks, and are armed with a Daemonic Axe.

Chaos Lord – 240pts
of Khorne, 260pts
of Nurgle, 270pts
of Slaanesh, 265pts
Tzeentch, 250pts
*Unending Legion – When a Chaos Lord uses this ability, you may place a copy of a previously destroyed Slaves of Darkess unit as reinforcements. Additionally, during deployment at the start of the game, you may choose any of the Slaves of Darkness units in your army to remain as reinforcements, to be brought into play on later turns.

Lord on Daemonic Mount – 335pts
of Khorne, 360pts
of Nurgle, 385pts
Tzeentch, 370pts
Slaanesh, 345pts

Lord on Manticore w/ Flail and Runeshield or Daggerfist – 595pts
of Khorne, 600pts
of Nurgle, 700pts
Tzeentch, 615pts
Slaanesh, 625pts
Chaos Lance, +10pts
Daemon Blade, +50pts
*Manticores are never assumed to be in their own territory, unless agreed upon by your opponent at the start of your game.

Chaos Sorcerer Lord w/ Runesword – 115pts
Chaos Steed, +20pts

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore – 615pts

Exalted Hero with Battle Standard – 115pts

Chaos Warrior (choose one below)
Handweapon and Shield – 20pts
Chaos Halberd and Shield – 19pts
Great Blade – 23pts
Pair of Handweapons - 20pts
Aspiring Champion, +3pts
Banner, +10pts
Hornblower, +10pts

Chaos Marauder w/ Flail – 5pts
Marauder Axe, +1pt/model
Darkwood Shield, +2pts/model
Marauder Chieftain, +2pts
Icon Bearer, +10pts
Drummer, +10pts

Forsaken – 25pts

Chaos Chariot w/ Warflail - 80pts
Great Blade, +10pts/model
Exalted Charioteer, +10pts

Marauder Horseman – 14pts
Marauder Javelins, +3pts/model
Darkwood Shields, +3pts/model
Horsemaster, free
Icon Bearer, +10pts
Hornblower, +10pts

Chosen – 35pts
Exalted Champion, +5pts
Icon Bearer, +10pts
Skull Drummer, +10pts

Chaos Knight w/ Chaos Glaive – 40pts
Ensorcelled Weapon, +5pts/model
Doom Knight, +5pts
Standard Bearer, +10pts
Hornblower, +10pts

Gorebeast Chariot – 103pts
Exalted Charioteer, +14pts

Chaos Warshrine – 450pts

Hellcannon – 150pts

Chaos Spawn – 80pts

Khorne Lord on Juggernaut – 445pts

Khorne Exalted Hero – 135pts
Chain Flail, +20pts

Wrathmonger – 40pts
Wrathmaster, +6pts

Skullreapers – 40pts
Spinecleaver, +10pts/model
Soultearer, +10pts/model
Skullseeker, +10pts
Icon Bearer, +10pts

Skullcrusher of Khorne – 65pts
Skull Hunter, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +10pts
Horn Blower, +10pts

Nurgle Chaos Lord – 245pts
*Nurgle’s Rot affects all units, friend and foe.

Nurgle Lord on Daemonic Mount – 295pts

Nurgle Chaos Sorcerer – 165pts

Putrid Blightkings – 60pts
Blightlord, +10pts
Sonorous Tocsin, +10pts
*Virulent Discharge affects all units, friend and foe.

Chaos Lord of Slaanesh – 165pts

Lord of Slaanesh on Daemonic Mount – 300pts
*
Lord of Forbidden Pleasure: enemy units are at a -1 to hit the Lord of Slaanesh with melee attacks. This works regardless of eye contact.

Hellstrider of Slaanesh – 25pts
Hellreaver, +3pts
Icon Bearer, +10pts
Hornblower, +10pts

Tzeentch Chaos Lord on Disc of Tzeentch – 320pts

Tzeentch Chaos Sorcerers – 170pts

Chaos Warhounds – 9pts

Chaos Ogre – 40pts
Ogre Mutant, +9pts
Standard Bearer, +10pts
Horn Blower, +10pts

Chaos Troll – 80pts

Chaos Giant – 520pts

Chimera – 675pts

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth – 540pts

Dragon Ogre w/ Pair of Weapons – 55pts
Warglaive, +7pts/model
Draconic Crusher, +7ts/model

Mutalith Vortex Beast –705pts

Slaughterbrute – 590pts
Lesser Claws, +25pts

Cockatrice – 290pts
*Resolve the Petrifying Gaze on the roll of a 4+, regardless of who blinks.

Chaos Familiar – 3pts

Great Taurus – 255pts

Lammasu – 220pts
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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9,222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Some of the values do run high. The first thing of note is the Prince's stats - the guy has 12W, a good save, and the MoK takes him from 4/4 Hit/Wound to 3/3 hit Wound, each of which does around 2 damage (can kill 2 models). Fitting him alongside an army? He'll tank a good chunk of an army on his own.

Another consideration however, and one that I was going to ask for opinions on, is the nature of the "Core Tax". In earlier editions and particularly in 8th, you needed a minimum amount of Core in the army - you could not field an entire army of Daemon Princes and Chaos Knights. For every point spent on Special, you had spent at least half as many pts in Core, and for Rare it was a 1:1 trade.

In many instances, if you apply these modifiers (X/1.5 for Special and X/2 for Rare and Lords/Heroes) it brings the appallingly high AoS costs into line with the old 8th prices. The problem is that AoS does not support the Core/Special/Rare restrictions of 8th, so players would have to agree to that in addition to agreeing to use pts costs in general and also, future AoS releases are not based on the old books and therefore make no mention of what should be considered Core/Special/Rare at all.

I would like these rules to remain as unobtrusive as possible, basically just add points to AoS and clarify/simplify the rules for playing with "traditional" ranked units from previous editions. I'm not sure if it's necessarily worth adding the Core/Spec/Rare limits into the system, because using that to modify the point values means that players would be forced to use it to balance their games, otherwise they may as well not use pts at all.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Vampire Counts

Morghast Harbinger – 202pts

Morghast Archai – 203pts

Vampire Lord – 275pts
Nightmare, +30pts

Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror w/ Deathlance– 515pts
Vampiric Sword, +20pts
Ancient Shield, +75pts

Coven Throne – 705pts

Vargheist – 115pts
Vargoyle, +20pts

Blood Knight – 90pts
Castellan, +10pts
Hornblower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +30pts

Fell Bat – 55pts

Bat Swarm – 70pts

Necromancer – 100pts
Nightmare, +15pts

Zombie – 2pts
Standard Bearer, +10pts
Noise Maker, +10pts

Dire Wolves – 24pts
Doom Wolf, +8pts

Corpse Cart – 120pts

Mortis Engine – 590pts

Wight King w/ Infernal Standard – 155pts
Ancient Shield, +30pts
Skeletal Steed, +30pts

Skeleton Warrior – 7pts
Ancient or Tomb Shield, +1pt
Champion, +2pts
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +40pts

Grave Guard w/ Great Wight Blade – 14pts
Wight Blade and Crypt Shield, +2pts
Seneschal, +3pts
Standard Bearer, +40pts
Horn Blower, +10pts

Black Knight – 30pts
Hell Knight, +5pts
Standard Bearer, +30pts
Horn Blower, +10pts

Strigoi Ghoul King – 260pts

Crypt Ghoul – 9pts
Ghast, +2pts

Crypt Horror – 90pts
Crypt Haunter, +20pts

Varghulf – 245pts

Cairn Wraith – 155pts

Tomb Banshee – 190pts

Spirit Host – 60pts

HexWraith – 45pts
Hellwraith, +5pts
Black Coach – 315pts

Terrorgheist – 1,015pts
Ghoul King, +25pts

Zombie Dragon – 805pts
Vampire Lord w/ DeathLance, +281pts
-Vampiric Sword, +54pts
-Ancient Shield, +205pts
-Chalice of Blood, +252pts

Death Wizard Spells
A Death Wizard may know any of the following spells, for the points costs shown. A Wizard may only have a single summoned unit active at a time - summoning a second unit destroys the first.
Summon Harbingers +100pts
Summon Archai +100pts
Summon Vargheists +70pts
Summon Fell Bats +25pts
Summon Bat Swarms +30pts
Raise Zombies +2pts
Summon Dire Wolves, +15pts
Summon Skeletons, +10pts
Raise Grave Guard, +10pts
Summon Ghouls, +12pts
Summon Horrors, +55pts
Summon Varghulf, +60pts
Summon Wraith, +20pts
Summon Banshee, +25pts
Summon Spirits, 10pts
Summon Hexwraiths, +45pts
Summon Terrorgheist, +140pts
Summon Zombie Dragon, +110pts
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So, what's the average game size now then? 5k for a 'quick' game? lol.
I haven't bothered to check what a "traditional" list would look like. Although now that you've mentioned it, I ran my old 2500pt WoC army through it, and came out the other side with 2569pts worth of stuff. I ran a mate's old VC list through, and it came out to 7813 :p (although to be fair, he was running a pair of Terrorgheists).

Another thing to point out about the Undead is that they have gotten much better now than they were even in the past. Remember that thanks to Battleshock, everyone Crumbles now, whenever they lose models in combat. So to keep with the whole "Undead are fearless" thing, the devs gave them all Ld10, which is huge. It means that you have to kill 5 models before they have any chance of taking a Battleshock test for that turn. Because of the unmodified Hit/Wound rolls, even lowly Zombies are effectively WS3/4 on Defense, and there's no more Initiative to factor.

In many ways, the game works just like 8th did. Core units exist to tarpit the elites and keep them from earning back their points. You only need 360pts of [email protected] to tarpit a 575pt regiment of Blood Knights for an entire game. So the Core units are running around tarpitting the enemy and holding them up, while the elite units are either ripping huge holes in the Core units (by virtue of lots of attacks or high damage) or are swooping in to score against the juicy elite targets (by having high Rend or inflicting Mortal Wounds).

What makes AoS interesting though, is that those massive Core units get bonuses which make them far more lethal when they are in huge bricks. Sure, it takes 3-4 rounds for 50 Skeletons to defeat 60 [email protected] (and that's assuming everyone is getting their attacks), but if you were to foolishly send in a regiment of Questing Knights against those Skellies without softening them up first... you're probably not only going to be tarpitted, you're probably going to lose your Knights.

So what's to stop players from fielding whole armies of nothing but giant, 50-man blocks of Skeletons? Really, nothing. Just like there is nothing stopping a player from building his entire army out of Blood Knights. How would it pan out in tournaments? I really don't know (well - I know that people would just spam whatever unit seems the most undercost), but I do know that the edge actually seems to lie with a player bringing big blocks of troops to the table, rather than buying all of the shiny new big monsters and showing up with those. And that's a change I can live with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
'Realmgate Legions' rules

Okay guys - the rules for playing AoS "like 8th" are here. True to form, they're only 4 pages long, same size as the original AoS rules, and are meant to be used in addition to the core AoS rules packet. I suggest reading both sets of rules in full, as the 'Realmgate Legion' rules will overwrite some of the things from the original rules. Once I have all of the armies "pointed out", I'll put it all together in a .pdf and try to upload it to Scribd, Isuu, and Google Docs for download, just like my Nippon book (right now, my computer is not a fan of uploading docs to Scribd).

The Realmgate Legions
Warhammer: Age of Sigmar - the Realmgate Legions puts you into command of the mighty legions of the Realmgate Wars. This rules set serves as an unofficial expansion to the Age of Sigmar Core Rules, allowing you to play battles between mighty armies, more akin to the classic Warhammer: Fantasy Battles experience.

Points Values
Every model in The Realmgate Legions has been assigned a points value, given later in this document. Points values reflect a model’s worth within its army.

The higher a warrior’s points value, the better that warrior will be – it might have more or better attacks, have higher bravery, wear better armor, and so on.
A humble Empire Spearman is a fairly average soldier, costing around 7pts, whilst a might Dragon might cost upwards of 1,000pts. Most warriors have a basic cost that increases as you upgrade their equipment and abilities, giving you a wide range of options that you can choose to spend your points on.
By adding together all the points costs of the warscrolls you have selected, you can find out the points value of your army. Knowing the points value of your army is important, as it gives you a handy way of reckoning it’s effectiveness. A horde of two hundred Goblins can be just as mighty a force as a score of heavily armored Knights – something that might not be apparent from looking at the models themselves. Most games which utilize the Realmgate Legions rules will be played between armies of an equal points values.

Size of Game
To play a game with the Realmgate Legions rules, you and your opponent will need to decide the size of battle to fight – the larger the game you want to play, the larger the total points values of your armies. The total points value determines the maximum points you can spend on your army.

For example, you may decide to play a 2,000pt game, in which case the total points value of all warscrolls in each players’ army must come to 2,000pts or less. Normally, this will mea that the armies will actually be a shade less than 2,000pts, as it’s quite hard to spend every last point.
Quite what that value is will depend upon how large you want the game to be. At 2,000 to 3,000pts per side you’ll have enough models for a battle, with one or two powerful Monsters or elite units on each side. Games played at 1,000pts or fewer are more suited to skirmishes. Games of more than 3,000pts will be conflicts of truly cataclysmic proportions, where mighty Dragons and Daemons rend the skies above roiling hordes of lesser combatants, and regiments are swallowed by carnage in the blink of an eye.

Regiments
Regiments are the basic organizational structure of the Realmgate Legions, representing blocks of troops trained to fight together on the battlefield.


Armies in the Realmgate Legions are comprised of several units called Regiments, chosen during army creation.
A regiment is created from a single Warscroll in the army. A regiment must contain the at least the minimum number of models, as dictated by the Warscroll. Additionally, the Regiment may be upgraded to include the weapons and command options available to it, at the points costs provided. Except where noted, all models in the regiment must be armed and armored in the same way. You cannot arm half of the regiment with Spears, and the other half with Great Blades, for example.
Many Warscrolls offer the option of upgrading models to be Leaders, Musicians, and Standard Bearers. Where these options are present, only one model may be upgraded to each position. While the leader may be slain by targeted attacks, the Standard Bearer and Musician have a measure of protection – they are always the last two models to be removed as casualties; first the Musician, and then the Stadard Bearer.

Formations
The most noticeable difference in games of Realmgate Legions, is the use of formations – orderly blocks which allow generals to more easily and quickly command the large numbers of troops present.

All models in a Regiment must be arranged in a formation that consists of one or more horizontal lines (call ranks) and number of vertical lines (files). This is why we often refer to basic warriors as “rank and file” troops.
There must be the same number of models in each rank, with the exception of the rear rank – which may have fewer.
All models in a Formation must face in the same direction. The formation has a Forward, Flank, and Rear based on the direction it is facing.
A model and formation’s forward (or Front), flank, and rear arcs extend outwards at 45o angles from each corner, forming four 90o degree quadrants. A formation’s facing is determined by the facing of it’s constituent models.
During deployment and over the course of the game, units may change between two types of formation:

Tight Formation
The most common type of formation is ‘Tight Formation.’ Units in ‘Tight Formation’ are formed up in base-to-base contact with one another in their ranks and files.
Regiments in Tight Formation are most suited to going to melee combat, where their training in fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with their comrades lends them extra courage and sometimes even special abilities based on their fighting style.

Loose Formation
Loose or ‘Skirmish’ formation is favored by light troops such as bowmen or scouts. Regiments in Loose Formation enjoy more maneuverability, but are more vulnerable in close combat, where their soldiers are more easily surrounded by the enemy.
Regiments adopting Loose Formation are placed in ranks and files with a half-inch gap between each model.
Friendly models may move through units who are in Loose Formation. (this represents the fact that in AoS, you may move through friendly models but not across their bases. If models were placed in the usual 1" coherency, many models would be able to walk through these gaps and reform on the other side. Models in base-base however, would present a solid mass that would have to be gone around)

Movement Phase
Formations are free to move to any point within their forward arc, provided no individual model in the regiment moves further than the Movement value indicated on its warscroll.


Prior to Moving, all models in the regiment may turn 90o or 180o on their bases, so that ranks become files, or so that the regiment is facing the opposite direction. Thanks the extra maneuverability afforded by their formation, models in Loose formation may turn any additional number of times during their move. Models in Tight formation may only make this initial turn.
Friendly regiments may not end their movement within 1” of another friendly regiment.

Run and Reform
When you pick a regiment to move, you can declare that it will Run, or that it will Reform. A regiment cannot Run and Reform in the same turn, it may only do one or the other.
If a regiment declares that it will Run, it foregoes it’s ability to turn on its bases before or during movement.
A regiment which chooses to Reform is allowed to pivot about its center prior to moving. Additionally, it may choose to adopt a new formation with a number of ranks and files, provided this new formation is still legal, the center point of the formation remains unchanged.
Reform can also be used to change between Tight and Loose formation.

Shooting Phase
In your shooting phase, you may shoot with models who are armed with missile weapons.


Models who are armed with missile weapons may attack with them in the shooting phase. Models who have chosen to Run or Reform, cannot shoot during the Shooting Phase.
Models may shoot at any enemy who is within range, and in their forward arc.
If there is an enemy model within 3”, only that model may be targeted (if there is more than one model or regiment within 3”, you may choose between them). Thus, models who are in combat may shoot into their own combat, but cannot shoot out of their combats.
Additionally, regiments may not shoot at an enemy, if that enemy is within 3” of another friendly regiment. The risk of their shots accidentally striking their allies is too great.

Charge Phase
Your units may declare a charge against any enemy who is within 12” and within their front arc.


Once a charge is declared, roll 2D6 to determine the charge distance. This distance is measured from the closest points of the charging unit and its target, along the most direct route. If it is determined that the target is in range, complete the charge by moving the formation along this path, and aligning it’s front rank against that of the enemy.

Combat Phase
Any unit that has charged, or has models within 3” of an enemy unit, may attack with its melee weapons in the combat phase.


Step 1) Pile In: When you nominate a unit to attack, you may turn models so that the formation’s front rank is facing their enemy. Additionally, you may choose to take models from the rear rank, and add them to the front rank. Adjust the second and subsequent ranks to reflect the new number of files. You may not use Piling In to change the type of Formation the unit is in.
Regiments may not 'Pile In' if they have been charged during the current turn.

Step 2) Attack: (see below)

Battleshock Phase
Both players must take Battleschock tests for their units who have suffered casualties during the turn.


If a unit is in Loose Formation or if there is an enemy within 1” who is in either their Flank or Rear arc, that unit does not gain the additional 1 Bravery for each 10 models. It is assumed that they are too shaken by the presence of a nearby enemy, or it is too easy to slip through the open ranks of their formation – for them to gain any benefit of their strength in numbers.

Attacking
Models may attack any enemy who is within their range that they can see. It is assumed that models can see through friendly models in their own regiment.


It should be noted that units in Loose formation, or who are in combat with an enemy that is attacking their flank or rear arc do not gain any of the bonuses associated with having a particular number of models in the unit (such as ‘Legion of Chaos’ etc). It is assumed that these abilities require the close, orderly cooperation among the fighting unit.

Summon Spells
Certain spells allow a Wizard to summon additional models to aid in battle.


The Summoning Spells available to a Wizard are detailed either with his own points cost, or alongside his Faction. They each have a specific Points Cost, and are considered to be upgrades for the Wizard.
A Wizard may only have one summoned spell on the battlefield at any time. If he has summoned a model or unit, he may not attempt to cast any other Summoning Spells until that model or unit has been destroyed. A wizard may choose to destroy his own summoned unit during any of his Hero Phases.
Summoned models or units which are destroyed after being deployed to the table, are worth Victory Points at the end of the game, exactly as though they had been purchased during Army Creation (see below).

Fighting a Battle
Battles are fought for 6 turns, or until Sudden Victory has been attained.

At the end of the sixth turn, tally the Victory Points scored by each side.

Sudden Victory
Each army has a particular ‘Breaking Point’. This Breaking Point is 1, per every 1,000pts. So for a 1,000-1,999pt game, the army would have a Breaking Point of 1. For a 2,000-2,999pt game, a Breaking Point on 2, and so on.
At deployment, armies are determined to have a Fortitude Score. To determine an army’s Fortitude score, tally the following:

+2 for the General
+1 for a Battle Standard
+1 for each additional Standard in the army.

The total is the army’s Fortitude Value. This total changes over the course of the battle as models and regiments are destroyed. If an army’s Fortitude is ever reduced so that it is equal or lower than it’s Breaking Point, the army is routed and the opponent wins a Sudden Victory.

Victory Points
If neither player scores a Sudden Victory by the end of the sixth turn, then the winner is determined by Victory Points. You earn Victory Points for the following:

:: Dead and Wounded
Each enemy unit that is destroyed is worth a number of victory points equal to the number of points it cost to include in the army. Units who are reduced below half their starting Wounds or starting number of models are worth half their points value in Victory Points, rounding up.
::The King is Dead!
If the enemy General is slain, you gain an additional 100 victory points.
::Trophies of Victory
For every model with the Hero or Monster keyword, and for every enemy Standard slain by a melee attack (not a Battleshock test), you gain 25 victory points.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Tomb Kings

Tomb King w/ Great Tomb Blade – 280pts
Dynastic Blade and Royal Tomb Shield, +35pts

Tomb King in Royal Chariot – 465pts

Tomb Herald – 145pts
Steed, +25pts

Liche Priest – 80pts
Skeletal Steed, +20pts

Casket of Souls – 335pts

Skeleton Warrior w/ Tomb Shield – 8pts
Champion, +6pts
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +40pts

Skeletal Archer – 7pts
Champion, +1pt
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +40pts

Skeleton Horseman – 25pts
Master of Horse, +3pts
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +40pts

Skeleton Horse Archer – 24pts
Master of Scouts, +3pts
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +40pts

Skeleton Chariot – 80pts
Master of Chariots, +10pts
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +20pts

Tomb Guard w/ Tomb Blade or Bronze Halberd – 16pts
Tomb Captain, +3pts
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +25pts

Necrotect – 90pts

Necropolis Knight – 130pts
Necropolis Sheilds, +20pts/model
Necropolis Captain, +5pts
Horn Blower, +10pts
Standard Bearer, +30pts

Tomb Scorpion – 110pts
may attack with either their Stingers or Pincers in each turn, but not both

Ushabti w/ Great Bow – 65pts
Exchange Great Bow for Blade Staffs, +40pts/model

War Sphinx – 830pts

Royal War Sphinx – 926pts

Necrosphinx – 1,145pts

Sepulchral Stalker – 105pts

Bone Giant – 505pts

Screaming Skull Catapult – 70pts

Carrion – 50pts

Tomb Swarm – 40pts

Death Wizard Spells
A Death Wizard may know any of the following spells, for the points costs shown. A Wizard may only have a single summoned unit active at a time - summoning a second unit destroys the first.
Summon Skeletons, +10pts
Summon Skeleton Archers, +10pts
Summon Skeleton Horsemen, +15pts
Summon Skeleton Horse Archers, +15pts
Summon Tomb Guard, +10pts
Reanimate Necropolis Knight, +110pts
Reanimate Tomb Scorpion, +115pts
Reanimate Ushabti, +70pts
Stone Shaping, +30pts
Reanimate Stalkers, +90pts
Reanimant Wrath, +104pts
Raise Skeleton Crew – 60pts
Summon Carrion, +20pts
Summon Tomb Swarms, +15pts
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Edit:
Some of you may recall that I had noted that there were two major flaws in this formula.

The two issues highlighted, were that the Solo units (Monsters, Heroes) do not take BattleShock tests, and therefore were being assessed for leadership values that they do not use (Skaven characters for 20pts, because of their absurdly low Bravery). So the first thing, was re-coding the formula to allow me to put in a "null" for units who do not take battleshock tests.

The second of the issues, and the most major - was that the points were not balanced in the sense that a Dragon could kill "X" Peasants in the same amount of time that those Peasants would kill the dragon.
Warning: Math incoming!!
Mathematically, this was a real brain teaser. I had to go outside the gaming group for help, and the math got... complex (plotting on 3 axes, etc). In the end, I decided to write a table by hand, and it hit me; start at 0, and determine how many Wounds the attacking model would inflict. Effectively, this was how many enemy models would be present for the "last round" of that combat. I multiplied this number by the damage that those models would inflict in return. I continued doing this for several rounds, always adding the previous round. Once the total wounds inflicted by the enemy met or exceeded the number of wounds in the unit I was testing, I would stop, record how many models had been killed, and that gave me the balance.
All that I had to do was code a series of "if/then" statements into the Excel file, and re-jig the formulas for how points would be tabulated from these numbers, and I was in.
Once finished, I calculated a few units, and tested them against each other. The results were much better - units at the same points value, would roughly wipe one another out. The difficulty is that there is no longer any Initiative stat in Age of Sigmar, and therefore, the units were tested as though they would always hit simultaneously. In reality, it will be up to players to decide if they want the advantage of attacking before their opponent, and that will make a difference. That is as balanced as it's going to get, however - I have no way of knowing who will attack first, and therefore I have no way to really test that variable and factor it into the formula.

The most notable outcome of these two changes is that the new points values are different in many cases - sometimes, dramatically different - from the previously posted values.

Obviously, because of this, I am re-figuring all of the armies previously thought "finished". I have already fixed and reposted the Brets and Warriors of Chaos. Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts are forthcoming, and shouldn't take long.
After that, I'm planning to do the Skaven. However, I might skip around a bit. So far, I have only touched a single army that my group considers a "main army" (my Warriors of Chaos). It's tempting to skip ahead, and knock out the Dark Elves, High Elves, Lizardmen, and Empire. In either case, I'll keep chugging along. Remember that I have every intention of doing the new armies - Sigmarites, Sylvaneths, Saurians, and also the Chaos Dwarfs from the released Forgeworld list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Skaven

Skaven Grey Seer – 130pts

Screaming Bell – 600pts

Verminlord Warbringer – 870pts

Verminlord Corruptor – 650pts

Verminlord Deciever – 800pts

Verminlord Warpseer – 800pts

Skaven Warlord (choose one below)

Pair of Barbed Blades, 130pts
War Halberd and Barbed Blade, 170pts
Warpforged Blade, 195pts
Clan Shield, +25pts

Skaven Chieftain with Battle Standard – 115pts

Clanrats – 7pts

Clawleader, 3pts
Standard Bearer, 10pts
Bell Chimer, 10pts

Stormvermin – 13pts
Clan Shields, +1pt/model
Fangleader, 3pts
Standard Bearer, 10pts
Pack Drummer, 10pts

Skaven Slaves (choose one below)
Sling, 3pts
Rusty Spear, 4pts
Rusty Blade, 6pts
Scavenged Shield, +1pt/model
Paw Leader, +1pt
Bell Chimer, +10pts
*Models armed with Slings may not attack during their melee phase. The Warscroll makes a point to say that they are armed only with slings, they have no melee attack.

Warlock Engineer – 120pts

Doomflayer Weapon Team – 100pts

Ratling Gun Weapon Team – 60pts

Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team – 95pts

Warp-Grinder Weapon Team – 75pts

Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team – 40pts

Poisoned Wind Globadier – 8pts

Warplock Jezzail – 20pts

Doomwheel – 330pts

Warplightning Cannon – 215pts

Stormfiends (choose below)

Ratling Cannons, 95pts
Windlaunchers, 80pts
Warpfire Projectors, 115pts
Doomflayer Gauntlets, 110pts
Shock Guantlets, 95pts
Grinderfists, 100pts

Packmaster w/ Whip and Blade or Things-Catcher – 44pts
Exchange Whip and Blade/Catcher for Shock Prod, +5pts

Giant Rat – 4pts

Rat Swarm – 72pts

Rat Ogre – 50pts

Warpfire Gun, +5pts/model

Hellpit Abomination – 990pts
Warpstone Spikes, +20pts

Plague Priest – 110pts

Plague Furnace – 585pts

Plague Monks – 10pts
Bringer of the Word, +10pts
Icon Bearer, +10pts
Plague Harbinger, +10pts

Plague Censer Bearers – 12pts

Plagueclaw Catapult – 130pts

Skaven Assassin (choose one below)

Fighting Claws, 165pts
Weeping Blades, 200pts
Poisoned Throwing Stars, +20pts

Night Runner – 7pts
Night Leader, +2pts

Gutter Runner – 15pts
 
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