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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If a command HQ squad gets into combat with enemy but only the officer (independant character) is in base to base with enemy, can his command squad lackies help him out by fighting/dying too?
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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It says in the rules the hits are at the UNIT unless other specified, af far as I know...
Don't just take my word for it tho...

im little :wacko:
 

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Dawn Under Heaven
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Nope, IC count as a sperate unit in CC

Say, I just realised Commissars aren't ICs! Hallejugh thingy spelling whatever! It's hidden powerfist time!
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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But he is not an independent character when WITH a unit... he reverts to being a Independent Character if the rest of the unit is destroyed... But it also says He is an IC HOWEVER must remain within 2" of the unit... Why are they contradicting themself ALL THE TIME!!!
But if he is truely a IC just within his unit;
A) people could make Ld test to ignore the 'closer' targets???
B) the Officer can choose to shoot at another unit then the rest of the comand squad???
C) NOT count the whole unit as moving if he moves (staying within 2")???

I am sooooo confused!:wacko: :O :w00t:
 

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Dawn Under Heaven
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He's an IC who's joined a unit and may never leave the unit until it's all dead, SMurf HQs work the same way. So in the shooting phase he can't be singled out, he's part of the unit. So no extra priority tests or anything.

In close combat however, all ICs are regarded as a separate unit. This has it's own advantages and drawbacks.
 

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Dawn Under Heaven
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Nope, Being IC doesn't let them split fire with their unit.

Pretty damn confusing isn't it? Took me ages to get it figured out. However, if your opponent puts his leader right at the front of the squad, if you're careful manouvring you can make the charge distance just so so you can only get into base to base with the enemy IC. Then his retinue can't attack you so you can put wounds directly onto the IC and not get molested and killed by their retinue.

So far I've assassinted 3 Jump pack chaplains and 1 Pig Riding Ork warboss. :ninja:
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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omg! is that not REALLY HARD?
So a recap:

He counts as IC ONLY in Close Combat?
He counts as within a unit in ALL other cases?
 

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Dawn Under Heaven
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Yeah, that seems right as far as I can remember. :yes:

And he can't leave that particular unit. However if they all get killed bar him, he gets to join and leave other units as an IC normally would.
 

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It's really not that complex when you think about it...

An IC can only be singled out by shooting when alone and he is the nearest model.
An IC can be singled out in CC if you are in base to base with them.

That's it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for clearing that up. I was as confused as Tiger.

Why is the rulebook just so confusing. It seems like there is a contradiction at every turn. And when there isn't a contradiction there is not even an explanation or example to even give you a clue what they mean!
 

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Son of LO
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This is why a wise commander always ensures there is a nice thick wall of warm bodies between him and his opponents. Leave the glorious deaths to the space marines!

As said, it's not that confusing.

Outside of CC, he counts as being part of the unit.

In CC, he splits up from his unit and counts as an independent character. If the opponent has a model in base to base contact with him, they can direct their attacks at him, rather than the unit (however, no half and halfs.. They're either fighting the character or the unit, spare wounds don't transfer.)

Bear in mind, however, that a model can never move within 1" of another model without engaging it in CC. So your opponent can't jump over your unit to get to your commander. Provided there are guardsmen in the way to block his advance, the commander should be fairly safe (if somewhat uninspiring..)

It might seem overinvolved as rules go. But it's neccesary. Think what would happen if an alpha legion chaos lord could join a big squad of cultists or other disposables, then let them soak up wounds while he single handedly cleaves his way through everything. It'd be annoying and unfair.
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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Will he still be able to attack anyone within 1" if is within his unit but NOT in base contact?
Will every one be able to direct attacks at him if within 1"???
Will the opposing unit be able to split attacks between the IC and the rest of the unit, or is it one or the other?
 

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Tiger said:
Will he still be able to attack anyone within 1" if is within his unit but NOT in base contact?
If he is not in base to base he cannot attack anyone.
Tiger said:
Will every one be able to direct attacks at him if within 1"???
If he is not in base to base noone can attack him.
Tiger said:
Will the opposing unit be able to split attacks between the IC and the rest of the unit, or is it one or the other?
Those in base to base with him can dedicate their attacks to him.
 

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I noticed this seeming discrepancy in the rules, but it is just a case of wording. The officer acts as part of the unit for ALL purposes, he only counts as an independant character in close combat and can be singles out, hoever, he is still part of the unit - so yes, he gets his attacks.

Ignore the line that says the officer must remain within 2" of his unit, just read the part directly after where it says he "may not leave his unit".

Only count him independantly if his squad dies.

The first time I read it, I only read the first line, which dosen't strictly say he must stay in his unit, I thought I could use the rule to effectivley put him in 2 squads at once and increase his redundancy, as long as he was within 2" of both he could claim to be in either one or the other. But no, it does say he is part of a unit for all purposes until it dies.
 

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Dawn Under Heaven
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Addoran said:
Those in base to base with him can dedicate their attacks to him.
Actually I think that's incorrect Addoran. On page 51 it says that only enemy models engaged with the IC are able to attack him. That means that any model within 2 inches of a friendly model that's in base contact with the IC may also make attacks against him, they are also liable to be taken as casulties from the ICs attacks.
 

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Son of LO
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It's a very thorny and confusing issue..

My take is very simple though.. in CC, he counts as a seperate Character. Therefore, he must be engaged in combat himself in order to participate.

That's how I've played so far, if it's wrong, then so be it, I've been playing wrong. ;)
 

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You're right Mantis, it's open to interpretation. But I would argue that you should still count him as part of the unit. Attacks may be resolved against him in the same way that (for example) a Tyranid MC can dictate attacks. Therefore he is still part of the unit and can engage within 2".
 

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It’s really simple;

For shooting purposes he is part of the unit but can’t be targeted.

For CC he counts as a separate unit so all the rules for CC apply to him as an individual (if a unit isn't in base to base somewhere then its not in CC). Also, as he is treated as another unit, wounds can’t move from the squad he is leading on to him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
ok i just thought of this to make it a bit more confusing.

There is a normal IG squad in combat.
HQ with IC(of sorts :p) joins the fray, but only the IC can make it into base to base contact.

So,
normal squad can fight as per normal.
IC can fight and be targetted.
HQ backup guys are not in base to base so can't fight/be fought.

Now,
what if the IG lose the combat round and break (sorry for incorrect 40k terms - but I dont' have my codex at work with me. Is it sweeping advance? anyway...)
If the IC is cut down based on the d6+Initiative then is his backup squad also destroyed? Even though they didn't even get a chance to fight in HtH?

Please tell me if some of that doesn't make sense or is totally wrong by the rules because as a fantasy player me and my group get rules confused between both systems :wacko:
 
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