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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's quite common to see new players coming into Fantasy or the Empire, post up threads on the forums asking
"What do I do now?" or "I have X, should I also buy Y?"

This thread is intended to be the catch-all for those kinds of questions. This will help the entire Empire community here at LO, giving new players a place to hopefully find that their questions are already answered, and keeping the boards clear so that Veterans can post more specific topics without them being buried under 'Help' threads.

In the future, "Just Starting" threads will be redirected here, and possibly locked, in order to keep the section free of clutter.

So without further ado, I'll turn this over to the vets, if they'd like to post any general information that they think might help with starting an Empire force.
 

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n00b

Wow, this sticky is really bustling with activity. har har.

Anywho, some friends and I have been playing 40k for a long time, but we've decided to each start a fantasy army as well, and I chose Empire! I acquired a box of ancient little models, mainly spearmen and riflemen (pistoliers? I don't have the codex yet), with a few metal figures that look like possible HQs and a cannon. Now, without knowing any of the rules, and based off of sheer cool factor and personal interest, what I really want to field are knights of the realm and greatswords, so I was thinking about buying the battallion box. Would anyone recommend or discourage this? or anything else for the matter?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
 

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Hi I am just starting empire and i have a few Qs.
What lores of magic most benefit the empire
Which are best spearmen haliberders swordsmen or a mix
what heroes lords are good/esseintal
crossbowmen or handgunners
I have about 30 state troops, 25 handgunners/crossbowmen a hero on horse a canon/mortar and 2 wizards most of which is unbuilt
what should i next get to make a fully able 1000pts and up, force

thanks for reading and any advice at all will be fully appreciated as this noob needs any and all the advice he can get, thanks.
 

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Nulty:

1. Life. or shadows, you mainly want to boost up your survival, or weaken the enemy's.
2.Swordsmen, 'cause higher melee stats and 5+/6++
3. 1:BsB, Arch lector or Warrior priest, wizard lord or 2x battle wizards(the lord is better)
4.crossbowmen, 'cause the 6"+ range is great, when you can shoot on the ifrst turn, when you've started the game.


Here's a list for you:

30 state troops, 25 handgunners/crossbowmen a hero on horse a canon/mortar and 2 wizards

Wizard Lord w/level 4, luckstone, opal amulet -250pts
Captain w/bsb, barded warhorse, full plate, lance -103pts
29 swordsmen w/full command, dets: 10 handgunners -279pts
15 crossbowmen w/musician -125pts
7 knights w/musician -167pts
Mortar -xxxpts

=999pts

that's just if you want knights, and your mounted hero, otherwise buy the on foot one bsb.
 

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hey guys, im still relatively new to fantasy but i do have a good number of games under my belt at this stage but i have come across a speed bump and i thought i would seek someone elses opinion. the opponent i will be playing next week will be playing skaven and will more than likely field the monstrosity that is the hell pit abomination and to be quite honest i have no idea how to beat it except fire everything i have at it in the first turn hoping to kill it or at least take most of its wounds away. has any1 got any other suggestions? i was also thinking about taking the lore of fire and trying to use an augment spell to inflict flaming attacks so that it cant come back from the dead? is this a good idea or would i be better to take the lore of life or even shadows?
thanks,
padie15
 

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The lore of Shadow is always a good bet to screw things like that over. However Magic is a fickle beast at the best of times so I'd be packing a back up plan as well. A unit with flaming attacks is always a good buy and with a handy, and cheap, magic banner that gives you flaming attacks you should be sorted.

I have my X-Bow unit the flaming std (after taking a General). This way they can shoot first and inflict a few wounds on a regenerating thing and take the regen off. Then the rest of my force can open up on the now defenceless beasties and take them down. Or you could give it to a unit of KoTIC with lances and see if you can down it in combat.
 

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Hi! I didn't want to create a new thread, to keep it as clean as possible, so I will re-direct my question here:
I need help with my first army... The Empire.
Together with my friends we agreed upon making a vanilla 1200 point army. That is not including any bonuses, eq or anything. Just base value for units.
What I was thinking about:

40x Empire State troops
8x Knightly Orders
20x Empire State Handgunners/Crossbowmen
2x Great cannon/mortar
5x Pistoliers

TOTAL 834/784

Im still considering some space for extra core infantry.
And also, is the arty worth it? If yes, what's better mortar or cannon?
(unfortunatly i don't have acces to an army book, i'm doing my calculations through messeges :/ )

Too bad not enough space for Swordmasters... :(
That's for the army... now, I have no idea about the rest, that is heroes and all that crack.
Please guide me! All comments are very welcome.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, my first suggestion is obviously to get the book. We can't really provide you with the costs of any "naked" models, as it's against site rules (I edited your post to remove the costs). I also have a question - when you say "a vanilla 1200pt army, with no equipment" what do you mean? If you mean that you are all planning a 1200pt list and then hoping to increase the size with equipment alone, you're really hamstringing yourselves. Some lists benefit more from equipment than others. For example, practically every High Elf unit can take a 50pt magic banner. They can easily go from 1200pts worth of gear, and skyrocket into something close to 2000pts or more.

Anyways, I'll run through the units you have lined up:

40 Staties - what kind? Swordsmen and Halberdiers are the two most popular, but even at this size game, you don't want anything smaller than 30-strong units. So you have a single block of 40 to work with. Since the game is bigger, and you're running a larger regiment, I'd say that survivability is secondary, and you should therefore run Halberds.

8 Knights - this does nothing for you. Ranks of 5 remember? You want either 5, or 10, and I'd go with 10. If you're worried about having too many left over models (on a budget) buy two boxes of Knights, run them 15-strong and use the leftover mount to convert a Priest to lead them.

20 Shootas - Crossbowmen all the way. Handgunners have short ranged weapons and neither unit can move. I'm finding in my Empire army (and in 8th in general) that missile weapons don't really do as much as they used to or as we wish they did. I'd spend these points on 20 more Staties to split into units of 30 models.

Cannon/Mortar - Cannons are better than Mortars now after the nerf, and neither is particularly good. You need 2 cannons if you want to bring down enemy monsters, and that's assuming your opponent even brings a monster to the table. Empire are strange in that just having the option to bring a cannon scares most people away from taking monsters or chariots (don't let them know that no Empire general worth his floppy sleeves would actually take a cannon). If you want artillery, the Helblaster is really the best option in the book, but then, it's just a Handgunner regiment so I'll leave that up to you. It sounds like you want some Greatswords... this might be the budget-cut that you need.

Pistoliers - let me know how these work out for you. Personally, I'd rather have a unit of 10. The difficulty with Pistols is that they're short range but not (iirc) "Quick to Fire", so it's rare that you get your S&S reaction, and if you do, you're probably going to eat charging-hulk-unit shortly after. For this reason, I have come to prefer Outriders, they work better as a "I'm in your way, I S&S if you charge me, and you die messy for it" type unit. Otherwise, good job, you just shot a unit from the side instead in front, that does... nothing. Get twice as many handgunners, or drop these guys for Knights/Greatswords/ExtraCannon whatever.

As far as Heroes - Captains are worth it just for the Line! rule to help your Leadership and the fact that one of them should also be carrying a giant Battle Standard. Then you want Priests for the ridiculousness that are Prayers. A Hurricanum can't hurt either for the +1 To Hit bubble. You've got a good start (missile-weapons excepted) but I'd really try to figure out what size game you guys want to play, rather than how many naked soldiers you want to collect. The unit sizes tend to fluctuate based on the minimum percentages and the size of the armies you are fighting - the magic phase becomes horrifying at 500pts but is laughable at 3-4k.
 

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Thanks for the great feedback!
The book is on it's way.
I found a very intruiging sale offer, and if i'd go with that:

20x Crossbows (two regiments)
60x State troops - helberdiers (two regiments)
10x Outriders OR 15x Knights
20x Greatswords
General noble box
1x Priest

And now, for what size of battle would that do? 2000? I think we might go with that.
One thing that buggs me down, is that there is no wizard o_0

And if that fails ill just go with two battalions and three heroes.

40x State troops
20x crossbows
15x knights
2x great cannon
noble box
and a priest.
 

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Today I bought the 8th edition empire book and empire book. Because I want to start a empire army of 1500-2000 points. I have read the book. But its quit hard for me because I am used to army's like woc and lizardmen with real strong infranty. So I am struggling with what to buy. I really like the versatility of the army. The only real must have units I saw are the greatswords and innercircle knights. Also I love the witch hunter and it seems quit good. My main questions are: Best core (they all look to same to me ws4 vs str 4 of sword vs halberd) ? How good are demy griph knights and hunters? For artillery the hellblaster seems strong and the mortar (I have heard bad things about mortar in 8th). And whats the best rare unit choice (steamtank vs celestial things). So I hope some of you experienced empire player can give me a alround headsup. Thanks in advance.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I also play Warriors, my friend and most common opponent is a Lizardman player, so I know what you mean about the differences in the armies. So here's the breakdown:

1. Weak Core - no. Not so much as you initially think. Remember that with a Captain in the unit, Empire State Troops get "Hold the Line", which is equal to Cold Blooded from the Lizardmen. Also, they cost about half as much as a Warrior but aren't that much worse (when you factor that Warrior armorsaves are modifiable - you can't change the number of bodies in a regiment though).
It should be noted that the Detachment system and it's usefulness is up in the air. The majority of players now are using smaller detachments of 15/20 models. Marnepup will argue that there should be no detachments at all. I argue that you should field Detachments, but field 50-60 strong Parent units. My method lets you take advantage of all the cool rules afforded by detachments, like the ability to spread special effects over a wider area than just a single unit or small bubble. It also gives you the option to countercharge with your detachments, although they're also large enough to be used as regiments of their own.

2. Swords vs Halberds - this also depends somewhat on your choice of BuffKart, as well as what you want your "major" to be. You can gain a Wardsave on your Halberdiers, or +1 to hit on your Swordsmen (closing the strength gap), but you will always have either a defensive unit, or an aggressive unit. Personally, I field massive units of Halberdiers with Swordsmen as my detachments -but that's almost entirely because of my "large detachment" strategy. Most players field Swordsmen as the parent unit, so that they can use the Parry save against the more dangerous frontal-attacks, while the squishier Halberd detachments attack the flank. Players who don't use Detacments at all normally stick to Halberds, for the ability to do damage (grinding is great, but damage is always a plus). You could offset this somewhat with Lore of Shadows, but Empire really doesn't need a Wizard to be successful, so players are hesitant to spend that many points on something that takes away from prayers.

3. Demigryphs and Hunters - Demis are pretty damn good. They're a replacement for Inner Circle mostly, so if you have one, don't grab the other. What the two offer between them is a choice: do you want massive hitting power, or a unit with ranks? Inner Circle can fight on their own, but only as well as any normal cavalry - which means that they should be flanking your bigger units to support them. Demigryphs can get into a flank and obliterate it, which makes then a lot better at the "8th edition Cavalry job" but sacrifices their flexibility (can't solo nearly as well as a big KoIC unit)
Witch Hunters are pretty situational. Although I've heard of players who want to take them as units, you have to remember that they're just Empire, so the chance of you soloing some big-bad is pretty slim. An Exalted will rip his lungs out (Jim) and a Vampire is just going to laugh at him. Cool model, cool fluff, cool concept... Imperially bad execution.

4. Artillery - Hellblaster is the way to go. Monsters are a problem for our army, I'm finding, because even if you include Cannon you need 2 of them to really take out 1 monster before it hits combat, and Cannons aren't cheap. I say, start without a Cannon, and if you find that your opponent is running lots of monsters, then pick one up. The Mortar is a wash, I avoid mine. Ditto the Helstorm.

5. Tank verus BuffKart - take either of the BuffKarts first, based on what you need them to do for your infantry. Then get a STank, although the STank isn't looking as sexy as it did in 7th, even with the FAQ applied.

As a heads-up, I'm surprised to see how competent the Empire army is, and how much they now focus on close-range rather than gunlining. It's no surprise that GW nerfed the gunline, as it was the most popular build, but the fact that they managed to make Close Combat more than "just viable" in the effort is what really took me by surprise. Initially I bought my copy of the book just to update my aging Empire army. I wound up starting an entirely new project, building a Samurai proxy-army from the Empire list to use when my Nippon book doesn't get the okay from an opponent. Needless to say, most people who've faced down my Empire army, are more than willing to play against the Fan-Book on the next go 'round. Empire is a little less beginner friendly, but a capable general can, and will shake the house down with them.
 

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Thanks for your reaction it helped a lot. At the moment I don't face many monsters so a cannon is indeed not the best choice. But if a monster shows up is markus wulfhart a good option with a unit of hunters (even a sphinx of tk). I also like the rare options of the empire. I find the steamtank quit a gamble if I read the rules, is this a correct asumtion? The steamtank sounds also a good solution against monsters and the celestial/luminark is more about support.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Markus and his Hunters have the same problem as the cannon - they're just situational. Yes, they're a little better at killing off characters, which does make them a bit more valuable, but at the end of the day you're just stuck. Just like Warriors - we didn't really have anything to use against monsters there either. The point is that we try to win what battles we can, and accept that we might not be able to defeat an enemy monster so much as we might be able to stall it with an expendable regiment of troops.

As for the Karts being more oriented towards support - that is what makes them so perfect. The Core troops of the Empire are overpriced if they are left to fight on their own. But add a Hurricanum behind them and suddenly they all get +1 to hit, add a Captain and they become Cold Blooded, and when you toss Priests and their prayers into the mix, you send them over the deep end. I see a lot of Empire generals cutting corners on Core in order to focus more on the fancy bits of our book - armies of Knights and Demigryphs etc. That is why I focus more on the Core of our army, and moreover on Detachments. The Empire book was written to work together and combine units and buffs like a well-oiled machine. The more Detachments we field, the fewer Hurricanums, Priests, and Captains we need. I take the points saved on characters and invest them in the fun parts of the army, rather than cutting corners on the Core of my forces.
 

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Thanks you really helped me alot. Thats the main reason why I like to choose empire. They are more difficult to play with then lizardmen and woc . Those armies make you sometimes to lazy as general because even without a great strategy I am able to win much battles. I still got a question about the warrior priest. How do prayers work exactly? I know its a augment spell which can be dispelled. But I dont see a casting value so how do you cast it?
 

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If you have the book(which i presume as you have read it and now i feel myself idiotic for writing this here. anywho) you'll see that there is stated: "Battle Prayers are innate bound spells(power level 3)". That's all you need to know, their power level(aka casting value) is three(3).

did this help?
 

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I don't know if this is the right place for this or not, but I was just starting out.. I played Warhammer 40K such a long time ago, that I forgot a lot of the mechanics. I have access to the book, but that doesn't really make any suggestions for learning how to play the game. What sets do you recommend to a newbie like me?
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If you're looking to start 40k, you are indeed in the wrong section. You need to head over HERE <link

If you're starting up Empire, my suggestion would almost have to be two of the battalions, you can't get those models any cheaper, anywhere. That should give you 16 Knights, 40 Staties with Halbs or Swords, and 20 missile weapons (arm them with Xbows), and 2 cannons. From there, decide what size game you want to play - personally, I'd try to pick up a 20-strong Detachment for your Core if you have the points within 25%, then some 20-30 Greatswords, the obligatory General and BSB, and a Hurricanum. That should be enough to get you well on your way to a 2500pt list.
 
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