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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, I'm a newb obviously, and my dad uses a Space Wolves army and I'm learning with a Tyranid one.
I know these questions are really generic, but hey, I already told you I was a newb ;)

Ok, so when moving into base to base contact for CC, say a squad of 10 marines is assaulting a carnifex, and is only 3 inches away after moving, would all of them be placed around the circular base of the 'fex or do i move them in a straight line to keep it neat?

Also, when a model with a powerfist attacks in CC, but has say, a bolter as well as a power weapon and charges, giving him 3 attacks, do all three CC attacks count as a power weapon, having to roll last (assuming the model survives) and do all of them ignore armor saves? or does only one attack, the one representing the power fist, count?

Thanks for the help. I'll try to learn fast B)
 

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First question: you can make the full 6" assault move as long as there's no terrain blocking your way, so in this example they would be placed around the 'Fex's base.

Second Q: all the attacks can be made with the power fist.
 

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would all of them be placed around the circular base of the 'fex or do i move them in a straight line to keep it neat?
This can cause quite a bit of argument because the rulebook is rather ambiguous about this. On pg 62, there is a comment the you need to move all the closest MODELS in the most DIRECT route. Some folks argue that you move your closest marines directly at the fex'. The models a bit further away would then be able to 'lap around' to the rear of the model if they are able.

Others would argue this contradicts the first part of the rule for assaults 'all the models must move into base-to-base contact with the enemy if they can do so'. So if by lapping the closest models to the rear of the mini (and still move within 6") you get as many models in base-to-base as possible. I always move one model that is the closest to the enemy in a direct route (straight line). That way I have engaged the enemy unit, and then move the remaining models in a manner so that I get as many as possible in base-to-base.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ah, thanks to both of you. Hish, that's what I was confused about b/c although a much more simplified game than Battletech, there is still a lot of ambiguoity in places. Ok, I do have a sorta follow up question as well.

The space wolves have the counter-attack ability where they, when assaulted, may take any models in the unit that was assaulted and assault back by moving up to 6 inches to get into base to base contact. Now my dad, who takes the reading of the rules to the letter thinks that's only if they are within 6 inches and can only move if they can be in base to base. I think that since an assault includes units up to two inches out of base to base, one must move all of the models in the unit up to 6 inches towards the assalting enemy unit despite whether or not they actually make it into melee combat.

Heh, thanks for the help again guys :lol:
 

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one must move all of the models in the unit up to 6 inches towards the assalting enemy unit despite whether or not they actually make it into melee combat.
I don't play Space Wolves, but I'll take a stab at this.

If you assault an enemy, you must be within 6 inches and move at least one model into base-to-base contect with the opposing unit (sometimes you can fall short even being within 6", say assualting through difficult terrain). Once you have a model in base-to-base, those units are in an assault. I think the rule allows the space wolves to move unengaged (models not in base to base) an additional 6" to maximize the number of models in HTH. This sort of acts like the results of a tied assault. Both sides move models up to 6" to get them engaged (base-to-base).

If you play larger units, you will see how a lot of models that are assualted are out of base-to-base, and not within 2" of an enemy. These folks lose thier attacks. I think the counter assault allows unengaged units to get into base to base contact. Try it out. Get 10-15 models in a roughly 8-12" circle. Make another unit (about same size and in the same configureation, a 8-12" circle) and position them so that 2-3 models in the unit are just about 5" away from the other unit. Have unit A assault 6" into unit B. You will see unit A will have more supporting attacks (units within 2") over unit B.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
:D Thanks for the help fellas.

In regards to battletech, I love it. It's my first boardgame/miniatures/book/computer game love. Sadly...no one plays classic B-tech anymore...especially now that clicky-tech has come about. It's even more expensive than Warhammer 40k in my opinion too, (unless you buy completely online).

As for the Space Wolves counter-attack advantage, i figured that they could move the 6 inches for models that are unengaged, but i wanted ot know if that meant all the models in the unit or not? Say a unit of 15 blood claws is stretched out in a line with one each between each bases, and only one half get assaulted and the other half are not involved in the cc. With their counter-attack ability, would I then move only the ones that are within 6 inches of range (seeing how they can only move six inches) to engage in CC or would i try to keep coherency and even move the models that are farther than 6inches as well to keep the unit coherent, even if they do not make it into CC? That was my question. :ph34r: :ph34r:

heh, that's just a cool smilie.
 

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and only one half get assaulted and the other half are not involved in the cc.
All of the models are in the assault. Some of the models may be out of the 2" range to lend a supporting attack, but they are a single unit in an assault.

would I then move only the ones that are within 6 inches of range
No, you can move all the unengaged models up to 6". If some models are out of the 6" range, they can still move as close as possible (and hope to get them withinn 2" of enemy models).

would i try to keep coherency and even move the models that are farther than 6inches as well to keep the unit coherent
Move all the models and gang them up. You are attempting to get as many models in base to base or within 2" of the enemy. Unit coherency in an assualt is ignored. You only have to worry about coherency when a unit (all the models) is not in close combat (pg 43 of the rulebook).

As I said earlier, this is a rather neat rule for Space Wolves. Larger units that are assaulted may find many of thier models out of base-to-base, or not within 2" of the enemy. You lose a lot of attacks that way. This rule seems to allow the player to get as many models in HTH as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ah, muchas gracias senor Hashem :lol:
I worked with a guy named Hashem at a car dealership, you don't happen to be Arabian/Egyptian at all are ya? lol Thanks again for the help
 

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Originally posted by Korias@Jun 13 2003, 00:16
Hey, I'm a newb obviously, and my dad uses a Space Wolves army and I'm learning with a Tyranid one.
I know these questions are really generic, but hey, I already told you I was a newb ;)

Ok, so when moving into base to base contact for CC, say a squad of 10 marines is assaulting a carnifex, and is only 3 inches away after moving, would all of them be placed around the circular base of the 'fex or do i move them in a straight line to keep it neat?

Also, when a model with a powerfist attacks in CC, but has say, a bolter as well as a power weapon and charges, giving him 3 attacks, do all three CC attacks count as a power weapon, having to roll last (assuming the model survives) and do all of them ignore armor saves? or does only one attack, the one representing the power fist, count?

Thanks for the help. I'll try to learn fast B)
I wanted to go back to the original questions as it seems they weren't ever answered properly...

With the NEW CC Rules, you MUST take the closest model and engage the closest enemy (unless you shot at them, then you have to shoot at what you charged except terminators, bikes, dreadnaughts or anything that counts as stationary when it fires). You then can only assault in a straight line from the flank you charged, meaning you cannot wrap around the carnifex! AFTER the first round of combat, and morale checks are taken, the remainding models close in for the kill and THE wrap around the carnifex. Hope that helps.

As for the close combat power fist attacks.. models than can have wargear upgrades, such as wolf guard champions in your case, can only have TWO 1-handed weapons, OR ONE 1-handed weapon and ONE 2-handed weapon. This means, you can have a Powerfist and pistol/sword OR Powerfist and bolter. With what you're saying, the model has a powerfist (1-handed), power weapon (1-handed) and bolter (2-handed). This is wrong as I mentioned. and unless they have TRUE GRIT, they don't get +1 attack from the bolter.

The answer to the second part of this question is that you must state before you make your attacks, what weapon you are using. If you use the power weapon, then no armour saves are allowed, if you use the bolter, then armour saves are allowed. Finally, if you had a power fist, and wanted to use the power fist, you would strike at Initiative 1, and THEN all of your attacks would be with the powerfist.

I hope this helps you understand a bit more. Good Luck!
 

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With the NEW CC Rules...
This is going to add so much confusion to folks that ask questions, but a good thing to bring up here. There is a proposed alternative to the Assualt section in the 40K rulebook, Korias. I am assuming you were talking about the 40K rulebook rules and not the ones Darkness is reffering to. What Darkness is talkign about applies to the trial assault rules.

What are the 'new' proposed rules? You can get them off the GW website. Are they official? Yes and No. GW is wisely having players try these proposed rules out. You might find more clubs and tourneys using them. I suggest to download them and give them a good read (and even try em out). Are these the new assault rules you have to play by? No. However, I expect when the new addition of 40K comes out, some form of these rules will be included.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Heh, thanks a lot again gentelmen. Being a newb can really suck sometimes ;).. It's a lot harder than when I played battletech, b/c when I played that, I was both the attacker and defender playing on my own :D I could never "lose" lol. Anyway, I *might* go and check out the new rules, but not sure yet. Thanks again.
 
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