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What do you think of the old miniatures versus the new?

  • I love how learning to paint faces is no longer nesiscary!

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • They are exactly the same as always.

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • I love these characterful, less cartooney new figures. What these are the old ones?

    Votes: 5 20.8%
  • Hurray for plastic, instead of quality I get bitz!

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • What is GW's official line on this sort of thing?

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • I perfer the old ones.

    Votes: 4 16.7%
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

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A bit of alright.
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675 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This may upset people but I feel I have to say it, Citiadel has not made any good miniatures in well over a year. What upsets me however is that they insist to tell us, on every opertunity that they are better than ever and that they should be revered as gods.
Has no one else noticed that they charge top dollar for toy soldiers, wargames miniatures prices even? I'm happy to pay for quality and even convienience, that said I buy: paints at GW, I wish the list were longer.

As I see it
The old miniatures; cartooney, characterful and detailed.
The new miniatures; far more cartooney, characterless and simple.

Why do GW have to say that the older miniatures were worse than the new ones? Simple; the old ones were the best in the world, better is always good. Also however the new models do not speak for themselves; they are not endearing, as much fun to paint or characterful.

People refuse to realise that there are competitors that can match the older miniatures for quality, they are better than the present citiadel miniatures. GW have realised this and as such are mounting a two pronged assult to counter it; they speak ill of characterful miniatures, saying that the present [explitive] is superior to the style that made them big and that has been adopted by the competition. Also they are hiding away in the realm of plastic, being as plastic moulding is too expensive for most of the competition, a drop in quality is worth it after all if you can get the punters in.

If anyone can convince me of my folly, that I am myself wrong then please do so before it is too late but do not simply parrot GW's PR for the reasons detailed.
 

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Aliens ate my soul.
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1,413 Posts
I do agree that there are other companies out there that make some excellent models.
I disagree with your general statement.
Everyone has the right to there opinion but you are tarring all G.W models with one brush.
I for one love citadel mini’s. I think the current ranges of Tyranids are by and far much better than the old models from the 90’s.
If you like character models then using plastics are great way to convert your own.
In general these kinds of topics are unhelpful at best. You have not even suggested how or what can be done to improve the current range, and you seem to have forgotten that many of the old mini made by G.W are still available online from their mail order.
 

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Undersecretary of Decay
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184 Posts
Personally, I am a big GW fan. I disagree with some of thier practices, some of thier policies and some of thier tactics. It's true that (some) of the minis have been turning over to more mass produced, slightly less detailed, and a bit simpler. I am ok with that. They are fairly expensive. That is fine with me. I am not one of these complainers that is going to talk smack about a large company with a large following because I feel betrayed. If I really felt that way, I could stop playing 40k and sell my minis on ebay and be done with it. But I don't. Because I like to play, I like to paint and most of all, I like the history. I like the fluff. I like all the back story that comes with the game, the world and the universe. That's what I am buying.

edit: I didn't vote in the poll, and I think the answers are misleading.
 

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Senior Member
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351 Posts
The votes are not serious at all. The change is in the fact that GW is trying to be cost effective to them by providing playable miniatures, and not sacraficing enough quality to make you stop buying them. Enough said...
 

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Kut Maar Krachtig
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4,014 Posts
Have you ever seen the first edition chaos space marines? or the previous edition empire statetroopers?

Look at these and then tell me the current line is worse, i'll give you an example, here, older marines:




and these old orks:



Now you're honestly telling me these are better than these?





Every so often i see someone who thinks older models are better, try looking up older obliterators



and now tell me the older models are better.


I might not like a lot of stuff citadel does finance wise or how they treat us, but the models now are the best ever.


ps:
The votes are not serious at all.
Totally agreed.
 
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the mandrake
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352 Posts
What do you mean when you say that the new models are not 'characterful'? You seem to be having ago at the plastics, but how can an arm be 'characterful'? A helmet? Isn't the whole point of multi part plastics to give you the opportunity to make your army unique and 'characterful'?

Anyway, I think the quality has VASTLY improved over time. Although I wasn't around when the old models were big, I have seen alot of them online and a majority of them, to me, look kind of awkward and seem to be scaled a bit off. At least the more recent metals are in more natural poses, compared to the earlier marines and such who all seem to be holding their weapons as close to their chest as they possibly can. Also the new(ish) nids, as Boomer said, are the first that actually look intimidating.

My 2 cents:/

Also im not voting as your poll is a bit insulting to anyone who disagrees with you.
 

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The Biker Marine
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1,618 Posts
The old miniatures; cartooney, characterful and detailed.
The new miniatures; far more cartooney, characterless and simple.
Good Sir - I beg to differ on this one.

Please take a look at the mentioned Tyranids, Chaos Marines (possessed perhaps?!?), new Vampires or Orks and tell me here again that they are less detailed than before...

I look at the Ork Trukk and I know I would not collect Orks due to... the number of crazy details that I do not wish to paint after working on WH army for over two years now...

Probably everyone here was calling for GW to move to plastic due to the ease of conversion, so that everyone can create characterfull models on their own. Not like they are not by default - Shok Gun Ork perhaps?

Cartooney - yes, THE OLD ONES were - dare to rememer the old Tyranid Warriors perhaps?

What is the real cause for your post?
 

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Registered
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52 Posts
I'm not going to flame you, as your opinion is your own... but I think the comments here speak for themselves. If you're talking about back in rogue trader days... then i'm not sure what you mean? The models were pretty awful looking... i know i played back then. You'd have an army of 60 orks all in the exact same pose... And lest we forget the old dev squads???? lol with the stupid guns up on their shoulders.. hahaha

Those models will always hold a special place in my heart... but at the end of the day i have to say that I really really enjoy the new ranges that have been released in the last couple of years.
 

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Registered
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324 Posts
Well then, I feel that the inclusion of more and more plastic sprues is a very good thing for the hobby. While it is true that the metal figs can hold a bit more detail, they can be very unwieldy for mods, plastic is very easy to change add/subtract/bond. Also, I feel the overall quality of the modelling has come a very long way.

*side note, painting faces... I dont see how the plastic models make it hard to paint? the smoother surface encourages you to blend and highlight where you feel the need. In the past with deeply grooved texture, I saw people painting faces that would shame a blushing clown-hooker.
 

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Ayatollah Moomintroll
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1,465 Posts
I'm going to join this debate myself, for two reasons. Firstly, I deplore the misspelling of Citadel, and indeed the other careless misspellings in the original posters initial post. Please be aware that this standard of carelessness really grates on the nerves of educated people. However, it IS an interesting and provocative topic, and for that I commend you.

My opinion, with over twenty years personal experience of collecting and modelling Games Workshops miniatures is that the current ranges are generally better than ever - with a few unfortunate exceptions. The move to plastic means that far more flexibility and imagination can be deployed by the modeller than the old metal minis. The plastic figures are also lighter and more tolerant of damage - so can are less likely to be a burden, either physically or emotionally (if they are accidentally dropped, for example) for younger hobbyists.

However, there are some classic miniatures that it would be impossible to better in plastic, metal having the advantage of allowing finer detail and mould undercutting. For example, Juan Diaz's sultry metal Daemonettes - currently there is a new plastic range of Daemonettes being brought out that are stocky and clunky by comparison (and not to mention far less nubile and sensual). And also Jes Goodwin's Sisters of Battle - apparently Jes was asked if he could design the moulds for plastic versions of these, and he wisely said that they would not be able to retain the subtlety of the 15 year old originals using current plastic moulding technology (I dare say there were other cost implications for a relatively slow selling army though, developing moulds to cast plastic is a costly process).

Although I often admire the new releases (will probably get a few of the new plastic Orks and Skeleton warriors when they are released - just out of curiosity or for old times sake maybe) it is to be hoped that the quality of these new ranges is maintained, and that they help to pull Games Workshop out of the very real financial problems that the company is suffering from.

 
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Dusk Phantom
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713 Posts
Well I'm not sure. All I can say is I've noticed that in the past years the cost of said miniatures has risen tremendously. Back in Italy the cost of let's say... a pack of plastic orcs that contained (I think) 25 orcs was something along the lines of 25 euros. Very steep if you ask me, for plastic. But today, you go GW and that same pack of orcs now has 20 orcs and costs 35 euros. As far as hobbies go it's starting to get seriously more expensive.

It makes no sense if they're mass producing them with less quality. If this is the fact then they should be cheaper. - Also I heard rumors (may not be true) that the miniatures are no longer made in England, but China. If they're made in China for heaven's sake they should be cheaper. Not more expensive. To me it just feels like they're cutting corners and raising the price of things further just to fill their greedy pockets with cash.

I haven't bought from GW in a LONG LONG time. I used to buy from this store called Goblin, until the local GW closed it down, forbidding it from selling Warhammer Miniatures. So it switched to selling DnD stuff. Now it pains me to say this, but even the paints - all of it which 5 years ago was so great, has turned to crap. All this constant 'new new new!' stuff is crazy, even Codices are more expensive. I remember a WH Fantasy Codex was about... 18 Euros. Now it's 25 Euros. Come on. Not even the bloody Chaos Codex who we all know is always the thickest.

Yes the books are beautiful, yes they're great quality - but come on. 25 Euros? That's more than 30 dollars. And the Rule Book? Bloody hell - costs more than my Contract Law book or Tort Law book that weighs ten pounds.

My point with this rant I guess is that if the miniatures are easier to make, more plastic than metal and so and so - they should be cheaper. And they're not.
 

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Rushing Jaws
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1,541 Posts
It makes no sense if they're mass producing them with less quality. If this is the fact then they should be cheaper. - Also I heard rumors (may not be true) that the miniatures are no longer made in England, but China. If they're made in China for heaven's sake they should be cheaper. Not more expensive.
I'm pretty sure that was just a rumour. As far as I know, they still make the models in England and in the US, and I want production to stay here!

As for the topic, for the most part I really like the newer models, and I can think of very few of the older generation of sculpts that I prefer. I didn't play back then, so maybe some veterans have feelings of nostalgia about the old stuff, but if I'm being honest a lot of the really old models make me cringe. Okay some of the newer ones can do that too (the Chaos posessed before the new ones came out with the new Codex for example) but in general I think the model quality is steadily improving. I know plastics can't hold as much detail as metals, but they can still be fairly well detailed and I much prefer to work with them than metal.

Oh, and I agree with Wispy^ about the poll. It does seem fairly insulting to anyone who thinks that the newer sculpts are better.
 

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Lord of Purple
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933 Posts
Admittedly some of the newer stuff is rather nasty *COUGH* New daemonettes, metal possessed *COUGH*, But overall, the quality is increasing and becoming much more detailed, with a lot more variety and poseability (Is that even a word =S).
 

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A bit of alright.
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675 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Look at these and then tell me the current line is worse, i'll give you an example, here, older marines:




and these old orks:



.
As much as I loved Space Crusade I must admit that I don't care too much for the old plastic [flat] moulding techniques, they were throwaway pieces for MB though; aimed at kids rather than a more discerning audience. The old orks I adore, these three have more character in their faces than the entire present range combined.

What is the real cause for your post?
I felt the need for a rant and wished to see the reactions that it generated.

*side note, painting faces... I dont see how the plastic models make it hard to paint? the smoother surface encourages you to blend and highlight where you feel the need. In the past with deeply grooved texture, I saw people painting faces that would shame a blushing clown-hooker.
It is not the fault of the medium but of the sculpts. The plastic mould making techniques make it harder to sculpt a good face also. Metal models now don't have good faces anymore either.

I'm going to join this debate myself, for two reasons. Firstly, I deplore the misspelling of Citadel, and indeed the other careless misspellings in the original posters initial post. Please be aware that this standard of carelessness really grates on the nerves of educated people. However, it IS an interesting and provocative topic, and for that I commend you.
I apologise for the illiteracy that plagued me when I created this thread, I don't know what came over me, I am truly ashamed.
 

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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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2,642 Posts
First off, I corrected the misspelling in your thread's title and added an expiration date to your poll. I think the poll options are a bit slanted toward your opinion - if you'd like, we can modify them to be a bit more representative of the topic at hand. PM me when you get a chance.

Second, I disagree with you completely. I went on a gamin sabbatical for a few years and completely missed editions of both WHFB and 40K. The main thing that dragged me back into the hobby is the improved quality of the minis. Those orcs, for example, may have characterful faces, but aside from that an army full of that exact pose is anything but characterful. As a matter of fact, unless you're looking for differences, even seeing a few of them lined up will make you think they're all identical.

Having picked up Wood Elves as my first army after my sabbatical, I have to say that had these models not been redone, I probably would still be on sabbatical. For example, had I been told that my dryad units would be made up of these (link) instead of the current Dryads (link), or that my Wardancers would look like punk rockers (link) instead of the graceful ministers of death that they are now (link) I would have smiled sadly at the GW folks, thanked them for their time, and went home. There are exceptions, as there always are, but for the most part I find GW figures to be leaps and bounds beyond what they were before.

Some of these "superior" competitors you mention have the advantage of making figures for small, skirmish-based games. The games are fun, without a doubt, but an entire army of metal figures is problematic, as mentioned before. GW has partially resolved this issue with the move to plastic. Even if the quality had so drastically suffered for it (which, again, I say it has not), plastic minis are far easier on the hobby in general.
 

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Has a monkey!
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1,630 Posts
I really don't understand how you came about forming your opinion or why you think I would choose the condescending options on the poll. You said that you felt like a rant and wanted to see the reactions it generated- that sounds awful close to trolling.

My personal opinion is that GW models are incredible and I love how they look. I also love how competitor's models look. But I can't use those models in my GW army tourney-wise; ergo, I do not spend money on them because Warhammer 40k is a universe I have really gotten into.

I hate GW's prices. But that's about it; I don't care that WD has become a catalogue because that just means I spend less money. I'm confident enough in my own creativity that I don't need theirs if they insist on slathering it in advertising.
 

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Sparta!
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1,438 Posts
As pretty much everyone else has stated, I too think that the quality of the game has evolved from the early days - both in imagery and miniatures. The game itself has evolved - it is now a lot more dark and gritty, less of a high fantasy/sci fi and more of a dark fantasy with a grim demeanour and I think the current model range (with some exceptions) reflect this superbly.
Plastics are much easier to convert and the level of individuality available from the sprues and the opportunity available for conversions are near limitless - a lot of the sprues are now interchangeable opening up many new options.
The only major gripe I have is with GW's pricing policy and their refusal to discuss reasons behind this or even acknowledge that their customer support base has issues with their over-inflated prices is rather vexing to say the least. (It's cheaper to mail order from UK and/or USA than it is to buy from GW in Australia - that's with postage. What the hell?!)
 

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the mandrake
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352 Posts
Perhaps Walex, you could give us some specific examples of models that have 'suffered' in character, detail etc. I am genuinely curious as to which models you would consider worse (aside the few already mentioned).
 
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