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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In light of how old the current Necron Codex is and of what special character terrors have been coming out from the 5th edition Codeceis, I was just thinking how could we change the rules and stats of the C'tan to make them truly nasty in 5th edition?

First thing's first, the C'tan unit type. I would remove their Independant Character status and instead make them a Unique unit of 1 (Monstrous Creature). This keeps the same effect as "Above all others" (and IC that can't join units) as well as making them immune to certain abilities that target IC's (i.e. Mephiston's gaze, Zogwarts squig-ifying power...).

For special rules, there's not a lot I would change (maybe get rid of "Above all others" as it's pretty much irrelevant in 5th and when the C'tan is no longer an IC) but I would upgrade the "only takes 1 wound from Wraithcannons" thing into Eternal Warrior. Both to simplify and to make them immune to Force weapons, Boneswords, etc.

Also the Necrodermis I would make more impervious to harm, like a 2+ regular and 4+ invulnerable (or maybe just a 3+ invulnerable, if you want super-cheese could go for a fabled 2+ invulnerable...probably too far) pretty much just because of massed poison attacks and Snipers/Sternguard ammo. It's just daft when small arms fire and little poisoned glands are better at taking down a C'tan than really big guns, with a 2+/4++ the really big guns would just be as effective as before and the C'tan would be much more resistant to poisoned attacks.

That statlines seem pretty much fine to me, nothing much I would change there (aside from the armour save entry of course).

For the Deceiver special rules I would just want to clarify any ambiguities, like if the power he can use in the shooting phase counts as a shooting attack or is just a power that just happens to be used in that phase. Really not sure how to classify it, as if it was a shooting attack (that doesn't need to roll to hit, but I think it does need LOS) then it would affect when he can and cannot assault if he uses the power.

For the Nightbringer special rules, I'd again want a little bit of clarification (his gaze of death which says it "ignores all armour saves", does it or doesn't it include invulnerables? I think it should...) and also a bit of an upgrade with regards to his tempest. Make it affect strength 4 or lower models and boom, much more useful power and also clarify it so that it always uses the base strength of the target unit and the majority strength of that unit.

A few tweaks and some fairly big changes, but I think if you're paying 300 points or more for a single model then it must be a total beast and very hard to take down in one turn. The most potent changes towards that goal would be Eternal Warrior, no longer and IC and the armour save of 2+/4++, in fact if only those three changes were implemented right now I think C'tan would be as unstoppable as they were back in 3rd rather than a sternguard drop pod away from destruction.

Any one else have some good (or better) suggestions as to where we could take the C'tan as they are right now? This is independant of the thought of taking away the C'tan and putting them in Apocalypse only of course, and is not really about what might be their equivalent in the 5th edition codex (should we ever get it). Just think about how they are now and how you could make them more 5th edition compliant.
 

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Some good ideas here. What I would add is to classify all the C'Tan powers (Gaze of Death, Decieve, etc.) as shooting attacks as they can still move and fire.
They should probably also have Fleet too, which goes some way to mitigating their biggest weakness: how bloody slow they are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Some good ideas here. What I would add is to classify all the C'Tan powers (Gaze of Death, Decieve, etc.) as shooting attacks but give the C'Tan the Relentless special rule.
Hmm, not sure how useful relentless would be for them, especially as they're already MC's which I think already confers relentless and iirc allows them to shoot two weapons per shooting phase to boot (so it could be a good idea to make sure each C'tan has at least two shooting attacks).

I could see Gaze of Death being more useful in the shooting phase rather than giving up all your attacks in the assault phase, although if it is still a large blast placed upon the Nightbringer I doubt it would be that useful unless you were in base-to-base contact with something. Either keep it as it is, make it a shooting attack that can still be used when in close combat (very messy rules wise) or just change it from a large blast to the flamer template that can only be used as a shooting attack. Possibly could even go JotWW with it and just draw a line 24" from the Nightbringer, probably without the sniping opportunity however...(unless you're feeling really vindictive).

They should probably also have Fleet, which goes some way to mitigating their biggest weakness: how bloody slow they are.
I'm really not sure about fleet, it might make them a bit too good if they get a potential 18" charge range. Not as far as Mephiston yes, but then there's nothing that can negate a C'tans abilities nor does terrain do anything to a C'tan. Does seem a bit weird when they can run and just stand there like lemons though. Hmmmmm, definately something I would test before deciding if it's a good idea, I mean they do have to have at least one downside now that they're really hard to kill eh?
 

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Blood Angels have three wound Eternal Warrior with 2+/3++ save so C'Tan *need* better survivability.

Anyway, I think C'Tan being basically gods they are more suitable to Apocalypse games. We should just get more different types of lords including a few unique ones.
 

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Blood Angels have three wound Eternal Warrior with 2+/3++ save so C'Tan *need* better survivability.

Anyway, I think C'Tan being basically gods they are more suitable to Apocalypse games. We should just get more different types of lords including a few unique ones.
Yeah, but my question is what's his toughness? Bolters cannot WOUND a Ctan, T8 is huge...and 5 wounds. You're talking Powerfists wounding on 4's which isn't much. I agree the 4+ invul only save is sad, I think a 3+/4+I would be nice, but still.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah, but my question is what's his toughness? Bolters cannot WOUND a Ctan, T8 is huge...and 5 wounds. You're talking Powerfists wounding on 4's which isn't much. I agree the 4+ invul only save is sad, I think a 3+/4+I would be nice, but still.
My thoughts exactly, the huge toughness is very nice along with the 5 wounds, the only real problem is the 4++ save doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to poison attacks. Not to mention the fact that a C'tan versus said 2+/3++ space marine/blood angel will rip it to shreds but something like Mephiston will rip up the C'tan instead (similarly the 2+/3++ space marine with eternal warrior will most likely rip up Mephiston strangely enough).
 
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