Librarium Online Forums banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
LO Oldie
Joined
·
1,248 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It makes me sad what GW has done with making the assault cannon rending. Its simply too powerful. i think the 4 shots is fine, but rending is too good. I mean, notice how tornados were ignored until assault cannons were changed. now the other speeders are useless. i mean, nobody in their right mind would use a typhoon over a tornado.

The fluff doesnt even fit.

but thats just my opinion.
 

·
Slave to the flesh
Joined
·
3,354 Posts
Agreed, but the assault cannons needed changing, maybe keeping the range at 36", still have three shots and rending?

Rending is fluffy for the weapon but in game terms it is a bit too powerful on a land speeder, I think the only reason LS still are armed with assault cannonswas beacuse they were in the old codex, realistically they shouldn't sport quite that much firepower. Missile launchers I can handle but the ass. cannons are just sick.
 

·
No Rest For the Righteous
Joined
·
1,140 Posts
My brother plays Salamanders and uses the Typhoon constantly, and it can sometimes be better because of the immense range on the thing. Its pretty much always nearly 36 inches away, so its harder to kill than a Tornado, which usually is within 24 inches after it shoots. He uses it to make people spread their formations out, so if they try to assualt him they wont get a good charge with lots of models engaged, and if they are stretching their range to shoot, the models in back dont get range.

Tornados cost 80 points and are super fragile. I think they're fair enough considering every army has good fast attack options available to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I agree that the assault cannon are rather powerful for their point cost. I remember looking at assault cannons when the new codex came out thinking that they were very good with the number of shots changed to 4, perfect for terminators. That was before I even realized that they were rending now. The fact that only a few rather expensive (land speeders, dreads) units have access to them and that land speeder tornados can be very fragile somewhat balances it out .
 

·
Son of LO
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
I don't really think that it's all that bad. I mean, not everybody fields all that many things in one army list that can take an assault cannon. The most AC's I've ever seen in one list, in fact, was a list that had two Terminators with them and two Drednaughts with them.

It's just my opinion, but the Drednaught really needed Heavy 4 Rending on it's Autocannon. Anything less, and you might as well just slap a Lascannon on it. For the amount of points that a Dred costs, it had better be able to dish out a decent amount of firepower and I think that the AC fits it perfectly.

Now I'm just waiting to see the army that has nothing but Land Speeders, Dreds and Terminators.... all with AC's. Cause that would be so wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
ravenwing/deathwing...assault cannon galore:(
 

·
Now with STFU flames!
Joined
·
5,917 Posts
H0urg1ass said:
Now I'm just waiting to see the army that has nothing but Land Speeders, Dreds and Terminators.... all with AC's. Cause that would be so wrong.
You asked for it! Though... admittedly there aren't any Termies... but I think the sheer amount of Dreads makes up for that fact.

Click Me
 

·
Ghost of LO
Joined
·
3,861 Posts
Your annoyed at assault cannons? if you want to pick on a weapon, look at the starcannons, same strenths, 2AP, far more effective weapon. And there speeders are 20 points left.

I highly doubt that assault cannons are making your army that unblanced. Further more, if your losing lots of games to space marines, its probably because YOUR list isnt very good, not that assault cannons arent a balanced weapon.
 

·
Son of LO
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Oh SNAP. Now that list would suck to play against if I were using my low-model-count White Scars. Good thing I don't know anyone who actually owns that many LS's or Dreds. :O
 

·
Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
Joined
·
1,148 Posts
Assault cannons are one of the few wepaons that keep SM's balanced with chaos and nids at the moment...They are the SM monstrous creature.
 

·
No Rest For the Righteous
Joined
·
1,140 Posts
Thats the other thing that kind of balances them out. Not everybody has the money to dish out for craploads of Land Speeders, Dreadnoughts, and Terminators. An army with nothing but one type of special weapon would seem a little boring to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
It makes sence if yopu think about it though... A million little bullets hitting the same area in a matter of seconds is going to have a chance of ripping right through it...
Havent you guys watched the opining movei for DOW, i mean look at the fire power that dreadnought lays down...

Or have you ever seen a modernday Minigun in action? It awinspiering.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
771 Posts
The only thing that bothers me about the new assault cannon is that it is more likely to kill an armour 13/14 tank than a lascannon. The four shots I like, the ability to perform well against tough infantry and vehicles, I like as well.

The fact that it outclasses a lascannon at heavy anti-tank...that seems a bit too far.

That being said, it is about the only thing that keeps marines up there with the ridiculousness that is chaos...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
LC's have twice the range though, not that it really matters with LS's I suppose, since 12" move + 24" fire isn't much worse than 48" fire.
 

·
No Rest For the Righteous
Joined
·
1,140 Posts
That isn't true Bean, the Assualt Cannon has to hit before it gets a chance to rend. Statistically only two or three shots hit, then those shots that hit need 6s to get the rending effect. Also, like monkey king said, they only have 24 inch range. With a landpeeder's movement, that comes to 36, but it puts the landspeeder in harms way, as opposed to safely blasting it from behind cover with a troop.

Sure it can try to do anti tank with assualt cannons for a turn if you need it desperately, or if you have lots of them, but saying that it beats Lascannons as an anti tank weapon is wrong. I have tried it and it just isn't reliable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Assault cannons are good. I admit that and field 2 in my terminator squad and plan on taking 3 LS tornados with the cannons. But they are balanced by being limited on certain units (if tactical squads could take them then that would be unbalanced)

But they're only good against certain armies....if you play against eldar, nids, or orks these things will eat you alive. If you play against necrons, SM, or CSM its not that really worth equipping.:yes:

Rending gives them a decent chance at killing vehicles but its still difficult to get the right rolls. BEtter for killing light vehicles that a landraider or something since its all or nothing. They have to be sixes and thats harder than it sounds if you roll somewhat decent and nothing happens still. They're above average in a pinch if you really need a tank dead but don't expect them to pull through everytime.
I take lascannons over them any day since I'm guaranteed the kill if I roll decent. NEver expect the assault cannon to replace anti-tank weaponry.
And besides...shooting at certain vehicles are still a pain.....I hate eldar holoshields, etc.

You you want to see rigged weapons? Eldar starcannons are AP2 and they can easily be found on Vypers. AP death to every 3+ armies out there. oh and they have good range......the only thing they can't do is kill tanks...easily.

Chaos bloodletters are cheap for 25 points only. power weapon....S5, invulnerable save, and a 3+......for 25 points!?:wacko:

tyrant guards are 2 carnifex wounds and power armor with better close combat than space marines for only 45 points.
(don't forget rending)

my two cents
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Ebon Hand said:
That isn't true Bean, the Assualt Cannon has to hit before it gets a chance to rend. Statistically only two or three shots hit, then those shots that hit need 6s to get the rending effect. Also, like monkey king said, they only have 24 inch range. With a landpeeder's movement, that comes to 36, but it puts the landspeeder in harms way, as opposed to safely blasting it from behind cover with a troop.

Sure it can try to do anti tank with assualt cannons for a turn if you need it desperately, or if you have lots of them, but saying that it beats Lascannons as an anti tank weapon is wrong. I have tried it and it just isn't reliable.
listen to this guy okay? the assault cannon will never become an anti-tank weapon. And besides.....every army in this game has a weapon that also does decent at other roles.....or some other thing that pays off too well for its points

1. Eldar warp spiders can teleport, shoot at rear armor and get lucky. thats all I see them do now where I play
2. REnding genestealers kill tanks. Toxic miasma is only 6 points and you lower WS of every enemy in contact by 1.
3. Eldar wraithlords are a 3 wound dreadnought. Starcannons are everywhere.
4. Necron destroyers are moving assault cannons without rending. oh and they're T5.
5.Bloodletters.....:O
etc....
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
771 Posts
Ebon Hand said:
That isn't true Bean, the Assualt Cannon has to hit before it gets a chance to rend. Statistically only two or three shots hit, then those shots that hit need 6s to get the rending effect. Also, like monkey king said, they only have 24 inch range. With a landpeeder's movement, that comes to 36, but it puts the landspeeder in harms way, as opposed to safely blasting it from behind cover with a troop.

Sure it can try to do anti tank with assualt cannons for a turn if you need it desperately, or if you have lots of them, but saying that it beats Lascannons as an anti tank weapon is wrong. I have tried it and it just isn't reliable.
Actually, it is true. Did you even bother to do the math?

Lascannon against armour 13: 2/3 (to hit) x 1/2 (to get a result) or a 1/3 chance to get a result from a single shot.

Assault Cannon against armour 13 (one shot): 2/3 X 1/6 (one you've rolled a six against the armour, a result is guaranteed) or 1/9 to get a result. That makes the chance over four shots of getting at least one result 1-(8/9)^4 or around .38 (38%) 38% is higher than 1/3 (which is about 33%).

In addition, the chances of the result from the Assault cannon being a Penetrating hit are much higher than the chances of the result from the Lascannon being a penetrating hit. In addition, while the lascannon can only get one result--and is less likely to get even that one than the assault cannon is to get at least one, the assault cannon can get more than one (even though it's unlikely). It only goes more in the assault cannon's favour when you go up to armour 14.

Do the math next time before you 'correct' things that don't need correcting ;).


That being said, the Range does reduce its effectiveness somewhat--but still, at a range at which both have shots (which isn't hard for most of the ass. cannon toting units to achieve) the ass. cannon performs better against high-armour vehicles than the lascannon.


Also, for referrence, the Assault cannon is definitely a common anti-tank choice. It isn't replacing lascannons in tac squads or devastator squads, but that's only because those units can't take them. I use Assault cannons almost exclusively for anti-tank in my lists, and they're great.
 

·
No Rest For the Righteous
Joined
·
1,140 Posts
I wasn't trying to correct you, I am well aware that mathmatically assualt cannons are better, but from experience I have never found them to be reliable at all at tank hunting. Maybe it's just me, but assualt cannons never do anything against tanks, while lascannons blow up tanks all day.

I think range is a big factor since one try is often not enough, and units at long range are safer than ones at mid to close range, and so get more chances to do the job.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top