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Im an experienced player that has took my first marine army,( Blood angels) . It only took 5 years to getting around to playing a marine army. Ive got a couple of questions on reserves and combat squads, especially for jump troops. .
Does the unit of Deep striking jump troops get placed in reserve as a 10 man unit and then during the game one reserve roll is made for the 10 man group and then they are split up into 2 – 5 man units before the Deepstrike takes place? Ie. 2 separate deepstikes.
Or---
Does the unit of Deep striking jump troops get placed in reserve as a 10 man unit and then during the game one reserve roll is made for the 10 man group and then they may be split up into 2 – 5 man units after the Deepstrike takes place? Ie. 1 deepstrike and then there are 2 squads clumped together in 1 deepstrike formation.?
Or—
Are they placed in reserve as two separate 5 man groups, and they each make a reserve roll and each a seperate Deepstrike roll.
Or—
Deployment only happens during the initial phase prior to the start of the game, so troops can not be split after the game starts.
Or-
am I totally off base here and its something else. ??
 

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You choose upon deployment if a squad will be combat squadded or not. If a unit is left in reserves, it is left there at full strength. The only exception to this is the Drop Pod, which has its own special rules for combat squads.

The Blood Angel FAQ has the following entry.
Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and
then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat
squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the
Drop Pod? (p32)
A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not
break down into combat squads.
 

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You choose upon deployment...
Be careful not to make assumptions here. Pre-battle deployment isn't the only deployment in the game.

It is left together when in Reserve, but what does a unit do when it comes out or Reserve? It DEPLOYS.

Check all the rules under Reserves and Deep Strike. They direct you on how to 'deploy' the unit. In fact, they say "deployed as follows".

The unit is therefore rolled together for Reserve rolls, and can then split up when deployed.
 

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The unit is therefore rolled together for Reserve rolls, and can then split up when deployed.
Not quite, a unit entering from reserve does "deploy" but a unit entering by deep strike can't combat squad. The deep strike rules say 'how' a unit must deploy, preventing it from combat squading.

Combat Squads
"The decision to split the unit into combat squads... ...must be made when the unit is deployed."

DEEP STRIKE
"First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table... ...Once this is done, the units remaining models are arranged around the first one. Models must be placed in base contact with the original model in a circle around it."

Combat Squads
"If you decide to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a seperate unit...."

You can't choose to seperate them on deployment bacause the deep strike rules have their own deployment requirements, and the two are incompatable.
Two seperate units can not be in base contact unless locked in assault, if you can't seperate them on deployment because of the deep strike rule then you can't combat squad them.
Reserves and Deepstriking jump infantry assault units. Combat squading.
If you're martching your troops in from the table edge then you roll for 1 ten man unit then as you deploy them from reserve you seperate the models into 2 seperate combat squads.
If you bring them in by deep strike then they're rolled for and arrive as 1 unit, they can't be seperated into combat squads.

Hope I helped. :p
 

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My take on it:

It looks like we've got the usual problem of deciding when "exactly" is the moment of deployment - is it when the player is *about* to place the models, or when the models are physically at last on the table? When coming from Reserve, the rules say that
the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later
From this I infer that the point of deployment is the time when the dice roll says "You may now deploy Unit X", because the models are not at that specific time physically on the table top. Reserves deployment can be standard (move on from table edge), Infiltrate/Outflank or Deep Strike.

The rules for Combat Squads must be invoked at the point of deployment, so regardless what way the unit is being deployed (standard, Infiltrate or DS) you have to declare at that point whether or not the unit will be Combat Squadding. CS rules state that each CS is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from then on, ie once that declaration has been made. To me, this means that a Deep Striking unit which has CS'ed must make two separate Deep Strikes since the unit is now no longer a full 10-man squad. The DSes are made individually as per the normal DS rules.

Just my $.02

E.
 

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The rules for Combat Squads must be invoked at the point of deployment, so regardless what way the unit is being deployed (standard, Infiltrate or DS) you have to declare at that point whether or not the unit will be Combat Squadding. CS rules state that each CS is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from then on, ie once that declaration has been made. To me, this means that a Deep Striking unit which has CS'ed must make two separate Deep Strikes since the unit is now no longer a full 10-man squad. The DSes are made individually as per the normal DS rules.
Can't realy do it that way around, by that point it's already been rolled for as a single unit.

While in reserve they are a single unit and are rolled for as a single unit, 'after' a successful reserve roll they are deployed. At this point they can be combat squaded.
Yes, you must declare CS upon deployment, but you can't declare deployment from reserve untill you've rolled.

They must be rolled for together and deploy from reserve together. For most forms of deployment they are free to seperate and combat squad but the deep strike deployment prevents this.

It's the same as entering from reserve in a transport, (except drop pods) while inside the transport they physically can't seperate, therefore, can't combat squad on deployment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Two seperate units can not be in base contact unless locked in assault, if you can't seperate them on deployment because of the deep strike rule then you can't combat squad them.
Where in the book does it say this??


Anyway....

1>"the decision to combat squads is decided when the unit is deployed" "when" being the word in question. it implies neither before or after, but a meaning of "at the time"....

2>"Both combat squads can be deployed in separate locations" Allows me to split the squads before deepstrike, but does not make me split squads beforehand.

3>"The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod - the player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks." Now "disembaks" probably wasnt the best wording here. But I assume they wanted to prevent people from wheeling around in a rhino for 3 turns and then combat squading when they get out. They could have been clearer on units choosing to deepstrike.

it tries to tie 1 and 2 together with an exclusioary phrase and doesnt do a very good job at it. I have to assume that they ment "the drop pod is the only way they can split after the get here"

not that Id really want to drop them as 1 group and have them all bunched up for pie plate goodness but it may have its uses, especialy if I have dante in the group and need an accurate drop and then to decide to split them up.
 

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Can't realy do it that way around, by that point it's already been rolled for as a single unit.
You're missing a step.

The squad has been rolled for, must now deploy, then splits as you deploy it.

Basically, at what point does the rule apply? (A: When it deploys.)

Your argument that they can't use the rule doesn't pan out, because you have not yet reached the moment in which the rule takes effect.
 
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hi i'm also getting to grips with the new blood angels after playing them for many years in the old codex the new way is far better.

to ansewr your questions thier is two legit ways to do it

ither chose your assault troops at 10 man units then deepstrike as 10 or split the squad into two 5man teams ( combat squads ) if you combat suad however a deep strike for each squad neads to be taken.

now a little tip dont pay for the extra 5 men in a assult squad just take the first 5 for 100 points below is an example as to wuy

10 man assault squad sargent powerfist and 2 guy with a melta gun 235points

now my choice is this

5 man assault squad + sanguinary priest power wepon + infernus pistol( furios charge and feal no pain to all freindly models in 6inch) add onto that the powerfist from a sargent and the melta you have a verry poweful sguad that can tackle both troops and tanks alike and for all this only comes to 240 points

the other reson i chose to 5 man and not 10 man is the chance to gain in two 5 man teams at 135 points each the two pewerfists and 2 melta so a total of 270points witout a priest so in efect for an extra 35 points over the ten man team you get

2 melta guns 2 sargents with powerfist and 3 normal marines so even not adding a priest it works out better for the extra powerfist and melta then a 10 man teaam whold cost :)

plus on the other hand if you wish to lose the jump packs put them in a razorback with lass canons as its consderd a fast vehiacle for blood angels it can still move 12 and fire its las canon or assult canons for the chance of rending hits :) takeing a razor back over jump packs basicly will let you upgrade it for free with twin las can assault can or plsama can :)
 

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So the FAQ updates actually cover this.

"Q: When a unit of 10 Space Marines with the Combat
Squad special rule arrives from reserve as two combat
squads, can they move on from, or Deep Strike onto,
two different locations? (p51)
A: Yes."
 
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