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/botnobot/
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. A chariot charges a unit, any unit. It causes two wounds from impact hits. The rules state that these impact hits distribute as shooting.

My opponent's position was that impact casualties are pulled from the front. My position was that they distribute as shooting, meaning I can pull which models I choose.

Your thoughts?

2. A unit breaks from combat after being engaged by two enemy units, one to the front and another to a flank. Both enemy units have identical unit strength. Do you randomize which enemy unit the broken unit flees from?



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Suffer not the Unclean
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In the rules for removing close combat casualties in the CC section, it actually describes the process of removing CC casualties as being the same as for shooting! They are removed from the rear and it then elaborates that each fallen model represents attacks back that cannot be made. "..any casualties inflicted will reduce the number of..." bold of course is mine.

I believe the note about distributed as shooting in the chariot rules is just to state that impact hits will not be directed against an individual character who happens to be standing at the spot the chariot hits, they will always kill rank n file troopers if there are more than 5 models.

2) yes on p40 of the small rulebook, Move Surviving Fleeing Troops heading.
 

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/botnobot/
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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Nightlord
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It was my impression upon reading the rules that the impact hits were not removed as shooting but as close combat attacks. I don't have my book on me but that is how I remember it being. Which would then mean that the killed models would not be able to attacks back.
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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Hmm, I had assumed the dispute was over whether kills from impact hits meant models can't attack back?

In the chariot rules a few paragraphs up from the part about distributing as shooting it covers that explicitly, so hrm. It also says that you remove casualties the same as for a close combat. Distributing hits and removing casualties are separate steps. The as shooting thing only serves to protect characters. You'd pull models exactly the same as if they'd simply been killed by someone with higher initiative in a regular combat.
 

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Nightlord
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Exactly, just like with shooting you can't target out specific people with the impact hits, but the models are removed from the front like in close combat. I hope that clears it up.
 

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King of Librarium's Tombs
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Basically, what i think youre getting at is this:

Dwarf Slyer unit, 20 strong, 4 ranks. Front rank are all Slayer Champions. You cause 3 wounds from Impact. Do they kill Slayers, or Slayer Champs?

This is probably the best scenario for answering this Q, and the answer, i believe, is that you will kill the Slayer Champs.

As the models are different, your opponant should remove from the front here.

If all the models are the same, then as always the enemy would remove from the back ranks, just to be easier, although technically you shouls always be killing from the front.
 

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/botnobot/
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

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Suffer not the Unclean
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Hmm, I don't know anything about dwarf special rules. Are Slayer champions not a character like a normal unit champion? The distributed as shooting bit means even if your entire front rank were lords and heroes, you'd still pull regular models from impact hits. (Assuming there are enough of them of course.)

I guess anybody who's been through enough battles to take a wound and keep fighting has enough sense to get the heck out of the way of careening chariots. Johnny Green-shoes three ranks back is the one who goes all deer-in-headlights when 1500 lbs of wood, blades, and angry boar does a powerslide across the battle line. (Or maybe develops a hero complex and tries to stop it with his rusty pike...)
 

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Hominus Nocturnum
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Hmm, I don't know anything about dwarf special rules. Are Slayer champions not a character like a normal unit champion? The distributed as shooting bit means even if your entire front rank were lords and heroes, you'd still pull regular models from impact hits. (Assuming there are enough of them of course.)

I guess anybody who's been through enough battles to take a wound and keep fighting has enough sense to get the heck out of the way of careening chariots. Johnny Green-shoes three ranks back is the one who goes all deer-in-headlights when 1500 lbs of wood, blades, and angry boar does a powerslide across the battle line. (Or maybe develops a hero complex and tries to stop it with his rusty pike...)
Having played Dark Elves and Undead I've always pictured it as the more experienced members using the less experienced members as little more than a meat shield against the combat.
 

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King of Librarium's Tombs
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Having played Dark Elves and Undead I've always pictured it as the more experienced members using the less experienced members as little more than a meat shield against the combat.
Lol, thats just the Gor using Ungor as meat shields at range :p

As for the dwaves, or whatever unit you have. Say the entire front rank is made up of Characters then the hits will be distributed amongst them. You can only inflict wounds on actual models you are in base to base with at the time of striking in Init. order.
Other models step up to take the place of fallen allies later on, hence in the avarage unit, this is identical to removing casualties from the back and subtracting attacks in retaliation per wound you suffer.
 

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/botnobot/
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Lol, thats just the Gor using Ungor as meat shields at range :p

As for the dwaves, or whatever unit you have. Say the entire front rank is made up of Characters then the hits will be distributed amongst them. You can only inflict wounds on actual models you are in base to base with at the time of striking in Init. order.
Other models step up to take the place of fallen allies later on, hence in the avarage unit, this is identical to removing casualties from the back and subtracting attacks in retaliation per wound you suffer.
But they distribute as shooting. So a front rank filled with heroes would live, as long as the unit had 5 RnF models, no?



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King of Librarium's Tombs
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Hmm... against impact hits... possibly. We are going around in circles dammit!

RORK!!! where are you when we need you... :p
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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Wounds are distributed like shooting - i.e. they cannot pick out specific models unless the unit has 5 models or less. Should the entire front rank consist of characters, that still applies, you don't kill champions unless they are specifically targeted; which is something you can't do with impact hits/shooting.

Slayers and bretonnians are the rare cases where this is likely to come up.
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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I had it happen against Ogres where the unit champion and a character were standing next to each other, chariot hit in such a way it was only touching them. Although we failed to properly observe the rule at the time and my chariot got to mega-kill the hero... oops.

It could also happen if you hit a one rank unit in the flank and a character was standing on the end. (Which is actually good for the chariot in that case since otherwise their CR would be limited to the character's wounds...)

Conversely it could also allow impact hits to end up wounding characters you're *not* in base to base with if the unit is small!
 

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Picture this: Chariots smash into a unit of men. *Crash-bang-wallop* Men die, generally those too stupid or slow to get out of way (unlikely to be Champions and Characters, being as they are not the stupid/slowest). Unit rips into invading hunk 'o wood and metal with poky sticks and other such nasty things as the poor sods or mighty warlord rain blows down upon the heads of the unit.

So the flat conflict line in the game isn't the most representative of the actual occurrence in the game world.

The rules back this up, you can't chariot snipe characters and champions. Characters and Champions always get to attack if there is ablative armor, I mean 5 standard troopers, still in the unit.

Anyway, what is a chariot doing reaching your Dryads? Shouldn't you have shot/magic/terror/feared the poor bugger off?
 

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2. A unit breaks from combat after being engaged by two enemy units, one to the front and another to a flank. Both enemy units have identical unit strength. Do you randomize which enemy unit the broken unit flees from?
David i came against this on problem on tuesday night, and because we couldn't find anything in the rule book, we just randomised to see which unit they ran away from.

Funny thing that it was my unit of gnoblars were in combat with flagelants and great swords. They killed 2 gnobalrs, and we killed 1 great sword, 4 Flagelants. I still lost combat, but it was funny. And we still got away and rallied, next turn to win the game.
 

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/botnobot/
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
David i came against this on problem on tuesday night, and because we couldn't find anything in the rule book, we just randomised to see which unit they ran away from.

Funny thing that it was my unit of gnoblars were in combat with flagelants and great swords. They killed 2 gnobalrs, and we killed 1 great sword, 4 Flagelants. I still lost combat, but it was funny. And we still got away and rallied, next turn to win the game.
It's on page 40. Randomize.

My gnoblars don't come from as hardy stock as yours. :D



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