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Saying you were going to do a doubles tournament...

1763 Views 19 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Sir_Prometheus
....with Black Templars (cuz it's fluffy), 1250 pts each, what you pick to support the BT's? I'm trying to decide btween using GK or Tau. The Tau work better for me, and seem more useful in combination with BT, but the teams will be rated on fluffyness, and BT and GK are pretty fluffy, versus Tau are not.
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Fluff-wise, yeah, probably best to go with the GK.

In terms of support for the Templar.. I've never played them, but I hear they're pretty assault-oriented etc, so.. maybe some Dreads for anti-tank, and or mounted IST squads? Get your freind to stick a teleport homer in his land raider assault squad and hit the opponent with black templar followed by deepstriking GK termies/FAGK? I can see it being somewhat upsetting.

ANyway, GL in the tourney.
How is BT + GK fluffy? One hunts witches and crusades for the Emperor. The other hunts Daemons and is a secret force that doesn't just fight on the battlefield next to other armies.

That said, a fluffy GK force would consist of IST for Troops, an Inquisitor to lead, and then as many GK as you want, but all of them Deepstriking.
Ok, first off, throw out the idea of making a "fluffy" army. GW screws over fluffy armies every single time they publish a new Codex or FAQ, so don't worry about that part.

What I WOULD do is play a pure GK force since you have good allies to back you up. This is one of the few times where a pure GK force is actually something to be terrified of. Mainly because you can use your opponent to fill in the weak gaps in the GK force, which is mainly anti-armor, and you can use his huge squads of SM's+Neophytes to cover your approach.

The best thing to do in a doubles tourney is to coordinate army lists and make sure that every role is being filled. I played a 40k in 40 minutes doubles tourney once where I played White Scars and I took nothing but bikes and my opponent played Dark Angels and filled up on long range shooting. So he was pounding our opponents with shooting and then I was engaging them in CC by turn two. It was a magnificent plan and we won too.
If you want to fight effectively though, consider your armies as one big 2500 point list, not two seperate 1250 point lists (I've some experience with doubles play).

Dedicate each army to their strengths. E.g. The DH are pretty weak for anti-tank, so make the BT player take a Lascannoned Predator (preferably 2). I'd bulk out on FA PAGK and then choose whether to deep strike or set up normally. I'd also of course consider adding the GM + GKT retinue. Then if you play against an army like Tau or IG you can drop little bundles of pain all over his lines.
How would you support BT? My man, you got it all wrong, think in terms of....How will the BT support you? You have str-6 troops :yes: No, but seriously I would support Addoran's post on this one...
Well, here's what we're thinking so far. (keep in mind the alternative is very unfluffy, but very shooty Tau, 12 stealths, crisis squad, two hammerheads, 18 kroot, a few FW).

So.....we're thinking 3 LRC's. He apparently has a lot of luck in 1500 pts games with using two LRC's, yes it's a huge pt sink but the enemy never has enough firepower to kill them, and certainly not both. I guess this is similar.

Plus, 3 Land raiders on the table has got to be pretty intimidating.

1)So, he's going to have two LRC's with two full crusader squads inside (15, or nearly, might have to take off 1 or 2 newb guys), one of them also has his Chaplain with the orb of antioch. Each squad has a Melta, Plasma, and a power fist. He will also have predator annilator, with the full lascannon layout.

2) I'll have the one LRC, witha 10 man GK squad inside, 1 incinerator. I'll have a 5 man squad on the ground with two psycannons (it's my mini purgation squad). I'll have a dreadnaught, with CCW and TL lascannon (unconventional, but I want the long-rage anti-tank, and we'll have enough AC's, and the whole army will be assauklting, might as well have him come along). Lastly, I'll have the Grand Master with 4 termies, one psycannon in the squad, and a master-crafted weapon.

We're doing this cuz it's really fluffy, and my GK are painted prettier than my Tau. Plus, the 3 LRC's are just awesome. I told him it's risky, all our eggs in one basket and so forth, and what if we come across two eldar?

But then I did the math. 12 brightlances, BS 3, kill .5 landraiders a turn (assuming they popped smoke, we are talking first turn, here). I don't think we'll see 12 brightlances. But f we did, we'll be ok.

So what do you guys think?
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It's an interesting tactic. It's also a massive gamble though, I'd be more worried about Tau than Eldar (a hit has a 50% chance of making you get out at the least).


Firstly I'd throw your termies in the LRC. They are your most powerful CC unit, I'd stick a dangerous termy squad in there and then use the fact that you can assault straight out of the vehicle to unleash a paincake on someone.

If your really that worried about Eldar, don't the Black Templar have have an armoury selection that nullifies the Bright Lance....

Again though, I'd throw as many PAGK into FA as possible. At least then you get the oppurtunity of Deep Striking them. Even at the cost of dropping the Dreadnought (you really aren't lacking armour now...) try and fill out your FA slots even it's just three 5 man squads.
All this is presuming popping smoke, which means no pens first turn.

I believe BT have an upgrade that voids meltas, not lances.

If I put my termies in the tank, then my huge GK squad has to get out an walk. I don't have any ST or other troops, so I can't make tem fast attack. Even so, and I didn't mention, my selections in this touny are limited, we only have the 3 slots between the two of us.
Nope, it (Blessed Hull) just nullifies lance weapons. It's a nice upgrade if you know you're going to be facing Eldar, otherwise it's paying 10% of the tank's cost for absolutely nothing.
Yeah, another thing we're worried about, a teams going to be farsight enclave along with kroot mercenaries.

hm, rail guns. Farsight. Figure a GK sqaud outta a LRC can wreck farsight plus buddies?
So apparently there will be a Farsight/Kroot mercenaries army. The farsight army has farsight, 3! Broadsides, and a hammerhead. Worked that out, on avg they'll kill .5 LRC's first turn with smoke launchers, same as the 12 Bright lances, but second turn, they 1.75. The kroot are like all mercenaries with eviserators and inflitrating, some winged.

There's also a Eark Eldar/ Eldar combo, fortunatly, only has about 5 Darklances, which at BS 4, you guesed it, kill about 1/2 LRC a turn.
I'm gonna guess you meant to type "Dark Eldar" and not "Eark Eldar"....:alien:

Anway, it looks like it should be a good battle so if you would, please inform us of how it goes, you seem ready for it :yes: so kick some arse for the Daemonhunters!
For those of you who care, the touney was last saturday. We totally killed the first guys (eldar and tyranids, they were kinda newbs, nice guys, but they didn't have much of a chance), the second, dark eldar and eldar (7 dark lances), guys were close to a draw on the basis of killing units, but we managed to secure our objectives (tokens) they did not, so it was a trouncing in terms of battle points.

Third battle was just f*ed up. All they had was one brightlance, but several Pulse lasers (eldar and chaos), but they managed to get a 6 to pen and then a 6 to destroy with the pulse lasers, twice! Third landraider rolls a one on a difficult terrain test. How lame was that? Battle was over before it stated. The Black templar ran scared at enemy fire and went off the table! I didn't even know that was possible. We are talking about absolutely rediculously bad luck. My GK's did manage to get into combat, managed to kill a lot of guys, but ultimately, it just wasn't doable.
Kill 3 for every 1 you lose, and I see it as a minor loss. How many of your own did you lose total? I've never liked superior aliens, and I want to know how many died on thier high chair.
Well, all the LRC's were dead or disabled first turn, and one squad of Black templars fled, another was annilated by warpspiders. My GK's (most of them, they only suffered light shooting casuties, so the termie squad, main GK squad, 2 psycannon left from another squad) killed two chaos squads, a wraithguard squad, and a daeomnette squad (the first time, befoe they came back, cuz y'know, calling them Daemonhunters was actually just a joke). About 800 pts, outta 2500. Eh, it was something, and the GK did not despair.
The best armies for a doubles tourney (not factoring fluff cause they would never fight along side one another) are nids and crons cause if you take a deciever pariahs and nids take 2 ht with psychic scream and 3 zoanthropes also with psychic scream your opponent will have lots of LD2 leadership tests to take and even fearless units will run from a deciever. I'm not really a fluff person and I dont know much of the background of the BT but I don't think GK would really fight along side any other SM chapter as they are the elites and only take IG as glorified meatshields (and to bring some AV weapons to the table) Id say if you were gonna play fluff your friend should play IG and you can pilot GK DH and have a whole inquisition theme going.
"black templars will not fight alongside any army that has a pakers save Grey Knights"
To your post above, Prometheus - You said they got a 6 to pen. and a 6 to destroy with the pulse laser....did you mean 6 to glance? Because the pulse laser is only str-8, it can't pen. a LR and it does not have the "Lance" ability, to bring the armour down to a 12.
"roll to pen" as in "when they rolled to pen, they got a 6, and so glanced"
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