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Discussion Starter #1
Reading the scout special rule and the turbo boost special rule in the 5th ed codex I see that you can do a turbo boost for your scout move, assuming you move at least 18" and end up at least 12" from your opponent. I just want to confirm that if your opponent gets first turn that the unit that turbo boosted gets a 3+ cover save.

Similarly, if a skimmer moves flat out during its movement phase it gets a 4+ cover save if your opponent gets first turn, right?

Here is a link to a previous thread that looks like it was written for 4th ed. I didn't see anything in any FAQ when I looked at the GW site.

Ravenwing Scouting 24
 

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The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss
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Just reading through the TB rule : that phrase "in the Movement Phase" jumps out. A Scout Move is not done in the Movement Phase. It is performed *before* the Movement Phase which suggests to me that regardless of the wording in the DA codex, the TB move is precluded when making a Scout move. So no 3+ cover save.

In the Scout USR, there is that phrase "make a normal move". A bike's 'normal move' is 12", not a TB move. The same applies to the Skimmer, suggesting it can't go flat out unless it's a Fast Skimmer.

E.
 

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only one way to settle this..."is eiglepulper correct?"
alright lets do this! <shakes magic ball> looks like it says "all signs point to yes."
 

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Charitably Tables People
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I'm not sure I agree on the interpretation.

The concept that "normal move" implies 12" is false by default ... a bike may move up to 18" ... that is the move allowed under "normal" circumstances, implying that is the normal move ... there are things that happen to the bike depending on the circumstances of its actual move (i.e. dangerous test if it moves through terrain, can't shoot / cover save if it moves over 12" / etc.), but you can't relegate a unit to a fixed movement value ... all units are allowed to move *UP TO*

Also, "in the movement phase" applies to all movement in most cases ... unless you SCOUT of course ... the logic of saying that you can't turbo boost b/c it says "in the movement phase" could be applied equally to moving at all, with the subsequent "you can scout, but you can't scout" conundrum.

The heart and soul of the question, then, revolves around what a normal move is ... and that varies by unit. Just as a scout marine who can only move up to 6 can "scout" move 0-6", a bike that can move up to 18" (albeit with penalties if he moves through terrain or over 12) can "scout" move 0-18".

My $.02
 

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page 53 states 12"
turb boost is not a normal move it is a selection available for the bike to be used in the movement phase but is a special move, utilizing a special rule. which is where our disagreement starts I think.
you make a normal move the same as if it were the movement phase.
thoughts 1: normal does not incorporate any special rules
thoughts 2: allows any and all options as a normal movement....

okay ready? GO!
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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For some reason I was under the impression Codex:DA has a line that specifically forbids Ravenwing scout bikers from turbo boosting? Are there any bikes that are allowed to scout move anyway?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The specific units that I am talking about are from the new Space Marine codex.

- Scout Bikers have bikes and the scout rule.
- The new land speeder storm is a fast skimmer with the scout rule.

Also, turbo boost and scout rules are both universal special rules in the 5th ed rule book. When I look at those two rules, I don't seen anything that forbids that scouts can't move flat out or turbo boost. Just like Djinni said, the question about whether or not scouts can turbo boost lies in how to interpret the reading of those two rules. I'm still under the opinion that scouts can turbo boost, but I'll write a response to that later when I have the rule book in front of me so I can quote it.

My question is more to confirm that the cover saves for turbo boosting or moving flat out are applied if your opponent gets the first turn. Considering the rules say you get the cover save in the subsequent turns shooting phase, I think they do.
 

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My question is more to confirm that the cover saves for turbo boosting or moving flat out are applied if your opponent gets the first turn. Considering the rules say you get the cover save in the subsequent turns shooting phase, I think they do.
that would have to be something to confirm before the game, since one could argue that it happens outside the normal sequence and does not reflect the scouts moving last turn attempting to cite that they are utilizing their experience and skill to slowly sneak into position. as a logical reason.
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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Ah, the new book, muddying up the world as always. I am in the camp that says you can't turbo boost to begin with.

Also, turbo boost and scout rules are both universal special rules in the 5th ed rule book. When I look at those two rules, I don't seen anything that forbids that scouts can't move flat out or turbo boost.
The point is it has to say somewhere that you can. There are an infinite number of things it doesn't forbid. 'In the movement phase' means exactly what it says. It's not the movement phase, you can't use that special rule. Scout does not say that this pregame meta phase counts-as a movement phase in any way. Merely allowing you to make a 'normal move' does not automatically make it a 'Movement Phase' and carry along any special rules that come with. Turbo Boost is a special rule used in the Movement Phase in place of making your Normal Move. The criteria to use the special rule are not met during the Scout movement.

If a unit with an Auspex spots an enemy, can they decide to Run?

Not going to tackle any of the rest of it without a book handy =)
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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Ha-ha! So it does. As we say in the vernacular, i r pwnt. Perhaps it is my just reward for turning away from the gospel of the good lord GW lately and playing so much Warmachine...

So it comes down to the totally undefined meaning of 'normal move.'
Can't say I have much of a balance issue with it. The prohibition on coming within 12" of an enemy remains. It was only really objectionable when combined with Deathwing assault.

As far as the saves, it would seem the Bike gets it but the skimmer does not. The bike says 'in the next enemy shooting phase', which turn 1-1 is. The Skimmer says 'if in the previous movement phase'. The skimmer has definitely not had a previous movement phase.
 

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Ha-ha! So it does. As we say in the vernacular, i r pwnt. Perhaps it is my just reward for turning away from the gospel of the good lord GW lately and playing so much Warmachine...
burn the witch!


As far as the saves, it would seem the Bike gets it but the skimmer does not. The bike says 'in the next enemy shooting phase', which turn 1-1 is. The Skimmer says 'if in the previous movement phase'. The skimmer has definitely not had a previous movement phase.
one could also argue that in order to have a "next" you must have a previous,
and that since the phrase "exactly as if it were the movement phase" denotes a previous movement phase for the landspeeder alone.
 

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Pedantic Englishman
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Sorry to jump late into the discussion, but..

one could also argue that in order to have a "next" you must have a previous,
Let's not go there. That'd mena that if you got first turn and turbo-boosted, you wouldn't gain the save.
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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I think we all agreed that they can do so after I got my head out of the sand and checked the new wording =) The real sticking point that the FAQ doesn't address is do they (and scouting skimmers) get cover saves in the top of turn 1.
 

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Charitably Tables People
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The rule refers to the model's previous movement phase ... which they had, even though most everyone else didn't.

It doesn't really matter what turns they occurred on, so it doesn't matter that it didn't happen on a turn.
 

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they would receive all benefits and disadvantages of the moves as if they actually had occured in the normal sequence of events. (ie they get cover) [Eigle: "Exactly as in their movement phase" or something similar]

The rule refers to the model's previous movement phase ... which they had, even though most everyone else didn't.
technically they didn't have a movement phase, they just moved.
 

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The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss
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Originally Posted by MVBrandt
The rule refers to the model's previous movement phase ... which they had, even though most everyone else didn't.
I dunno - the Scout move occurs *before* the initial Movement Phase, not in the Movement Phase itself. The TB rules say that the cover save comes from the bike performing the TB in its Movement Phase, so the Turbo Boost used in the Scout Move IMHO would not allow a cover save in the enemy's following Shooting Phase as it doesn't quite fit the RAW.

It might be one to check with your opponent before the game. Personally speaking, I wouldn't be happy claiming the cover save for the Scout move - and I play Ravenwing and White Scars!

Like I said though - this is only MHO.

E.
 

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Victorus aut Mortis
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I dunno - the Scout move occurs *before* the initial Movement Phase, not in the Movement Phase itself. The TB rules say that the cover save comes from the bike performing the TB in its Movement Phase, so the Turbo Boost used in the Scout Move IMHO would not allow a cover save in the enemy's following Shooting Phase as it doesn't quite fit the RAW.

It might be one to check with your opponent before the game. Personally speaking, I wouldn't be happy claiming the cover save for the Scout move - and I play Ravenwing and White Scars!

Like I said though - this is only MHO.

E.
I can understand what you mean E, but I have to disagree. The scout bikes turbo boost before the movement phase yes, but how does that exclude the rest of the rule?

The entry doesnt state that the actual TB has to be in the movement phase to be able to claim a cover save.

"A unit using TB must end its move at least 18 away from its starting point to claim a save." Thats the only real restriction we have on the rule. So you end your scout turbo boost move at least 18 away, and youve followed the rule.

So following the rule, in the next enemy shooting phase the bike gets a cover save. IMO theres nothing stopping you from doing it.

~SR~
 
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