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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right I have a 10 man space marine scout squad, I had thought of taking a rhino as a dedicated transport with the idea of using it to quickly move the scoouts to an objective and then it would limited LOS on the scouts. Then I was thinking on using a razorback instead. My plan is as follows:
use scout move to move scouts and razorback
Pop smoke from razorback
1st turn razorback and scouts fire,
Hopefully the razorback would make back the extra 5 points it costs to take it.

Now the rules questions:
Do space marine scouts confer their scout rule to their dedicated transport
AND IF SO can their dedicated transport still perform a scout move even if the scouts are not in the transport?
 

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EWOP
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For a start, Rhinos and Razorbacks aren't Scout dedicated transports. See the unit entries in the SM codex for these. Scouts don't get any, but they can use someone else's with certain restrictions-see the 40k BRB page 67, boxed entry bottom of right-hand text column and read pages 134 and 135 of the SM codex. The owning squad doesn't have to be embarked at the start of the game. The Scouts may then use other dedicated transports but they don't get to confer the "Scout" ability. The exception to this is "Scout" transport (the Landspeeder Storm for example-see page 75 SM codex). Refer to the 40k BRB page 76, "Scouts" entry, third paragraph.

Ultimately scouts are quite poor and only serve as distractions or spare squads for desperation moves. Their BS is below SM average and the possibility of losing a useful bit of kit like a Razorback just to get a 4+ armour save squad closer to the enemy is too high. I can see where you thought you were going with your idea though, and it was a good try. You would definitely be better off with cheap LS Storms for their multiple abilities to either Flank, Scout, Infil or Deep strike as well as their five-man comnat squad carry cap and the additional weaponry that you could use to devastating effect on arrival (Heavy Flamer/Multi-Melta and Cerberus Launcher) prior to a possible assault by the on-board squad. They can carry Scout combat squads in multiple lifts and given that they're not dedicated (just a Fast Attack entry) you have the flexibility to do what you like. It's what most SM players with Scouts do.
 

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EWOP
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The 40k BRB entry on p.76 ("Scouts") "deployed inside A dedicated transport" bit is the stumper. It makes it sound like you can put Scouts in ANY dedicated transport and make it Scout. You can't deploy Scouts in someone else's dedicated transport at the start of the game as it doesn't belong to them. That's where the entry on P. 67 comes in.

Sorry if I sound a bit patronising Spittle72 but I couldn't be sure if you were reminding us of a rule or you had misread the BRB entry. I was just clearing up what was said in the book for Bdoydie's benefit and reinforcing yourstatement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, I cant believe i missed scouts cant take dedicated transports.
I think I know what Ill do, I will keep them in cover, with my master of the forge to bolster defenses giving them 3+ cover save, then either add telion or if points become an issue just give one a camo cloak for 3pts will give the whole squad stealth meaning I will have a 10 man scout squad 2+ cover save,
Then Ill put in a cuple of land speeders.

Mite not make much sense but Im making a deathwatch army so I have cantor, 2x Sternguard squads to capture objectives, 1 tactical marine squad and a squad of terminators,
I have some sweet conversion ideas for my elites choices so I really dont want to change them, thats why I took a master of the forge so I could use my dreadnoughts as heavy support.
 

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EWOP
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It's not a problem old son. In fact it's a fairly common argument-the misuse of transports is often quite the sticking point between those of us who read the BRB (I was going through it for the Scout rule this morning funnily enough) and those who enjoy taking the mickey deliberately, arguing the wording in the BRB itself (it's a good job GW is just selling crap and not trying to start a religion).

You've an excellent start for a Crimson Fists outfit. Have a trawl about the SM entries for some top ideas. Traditionally Scouts are fluffy for Kantor's lot but don't stack well against other units with greater impact like Terminators. However if you put the Scouts on your objective with some long-ranged weapons, they'll be a sodding nuisance and someone will come along to investigate. This should almost certainly lead to a face full of Terminators, who are rubbish at scoring but ace at saving the day for the weak and innocent. This leaves your Sterns to get stuck in with the Razorbacks after a turn of shooting with their special ammo (from personal experience, this combo is dynamite), and a ranged Dread and Forgemaster are useful here. If you get into trouble then they are quite capable of joining in somewhere handy. Some good "redundancy" there.

Just remember that Scouts are useful but don't put your faith in them for anything but their annoyance value. They fit into any grand plan as well as anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeh I was basically planning on the scouts annoying people plus with sniper rifles and telion maybe on the off chance of taking down something big and nasty just for the thrill of it,
the sternguard atm are in drop pods with locator beacons but Im afriad this will leave my scouts sitting ducks for the first couple of turns. the scouts also have teleport homers so the trminators can come save the day if needs be. I am thinking of putting cantor with the terminators as assualt terminators with 3 attacks each is nasty.
My dread noughts I have one TWLC and Missile launcher and one Plasma Cannon and close combat weapon, thinking one for long range and one for closer range maybe to take down anything with flamers trying to get too close my my scouts in cover.
 

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Bear in mind that the whole scout squad must upgrade to Camo Cloaks or none at all. There is no option to upgrade a single model. (GW's wording is up to the usual standard here so i understand why you missed it.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have just posted on another thread reguarding this,
In codex SM it says "the squad may take" but for vanguard it says "The ENTIRE squad may have jump packs"
So I took that as for vanguards it is pointless to have one or two with jump packs as they could not use the benifits and would be limited to the same movement as the rest of the squad,
BUT the scouts could only equip a few with camo cloaks as the stealth ability is then conferred to the rest of the squad.

HOWEVER after some thought I have decided only taking one is a bad idea as it would only save 27pts and the risk of losing that one model from template weapons of similar abilities to Telion to allocated wounds it is only sensible to equip the entire squad.
 

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I see what you're saying, but in cases where upgrades are not all-or-nothing, it is stated as "any models may take..." which is actually used within the same scout entry as when it says "the squad may take camo cloaks at cost of ".

Like i said, GW's wording finest. the word "entire" is entirely superfluous in the vanguard entry.

There are many many examples of this. In the latest Necron Codex even, it states (p46, Upgrades box) that Spyders "cannot use their repair claw if they have gone to ground". Spyders being MCs, are never allowed to go to ground under any circumstances according to p51 of the BRB! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes i understand, like I added at the end of my post I have put some thought into this and regardless of whether it is legal to only take one or not I think for the points value it makes more sense to equip the full squad anyway.
 
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