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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, first off thanks for all advice!, I am forming a new army of Vahallen IG. I plan on painting their greatcoats white like the russians of WWII, but adding a bit of grey camo to them. Can I post pictures and you guys give me advice?

I am going to call them the 927th Tundra Wolves. They look so close to the old USSR I am making the standard look very close to a polish or russian flag. I got an miniture of a dyrewolf as a pet for Commander Chenkoff. Ideas, thoughts, tatics?

I noticed no one said anything about keeping my ratling snipers or my ork like big human guys ( I forgot what to call them) are they worth anything?

Also I found a web site to show me how to scratch build a tank from styrophome board, when I told my friend who works at GW about this he said ..."OH GOD YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE.." is this a social fopa? should I not do this, this is an expensive hobby and tanks cost a mint.
Please advise me on this!:soldier:
Thanks for the advise and help so far, great group of guys!
PS any Vahallian web sites out there.

Chief Koz
 

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Also I found a web site to show me how to scratch build a tank from styrophome board, when I told my friend who works at GW about this he said ..."OH GOD YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE.." is this a social fopa? should I not do this, this is an expensive hobby and tanks cost a mint.
Well, let's put it this way: You work for a company that makes something. That's your job, that's your bread and butter. Then a friend comes along and starts talking about how he's going to try making his own something for dirt cheap and without having to actually buy anything from your company, hurting your business.

Depending on where your friend works in GW, talking about building your own tanks from scratch may be more or less of a bad idea. Granted, he's probably going to see the end result of your building the tanks, but I wouldn't actually discuss it with him until the project was well underway and you had something to show for it, so he can at least go "Huh, that's neat."

Anyway, I like the picture I'm getting in my head of this army. Get some pictures up soon.
 

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I approve of the idea, but this is the wrong forum to put it in. It should be moved to Librarium Online's Modelling forum.

Modelling - Librarium Online

Even if you, like me, don't have anything to post there (yet), it's still worth a gander. There are some absolutely mindblowing conversions/scratchbuilts in there, even before they are painted (when they are an amalgem of various materials including plasticard and greenstuff).


On your idea; stylistically, you should be fine. However, I would be very careful and put a lot of thought into making your battle standard actually represent that of the Soviets or Poles. At least the former may offend many people (relatives of those killed by the Soviet Union chief among them), and instead of indulging your own imagination, you are tying 40k, a realm where imaginary people do horrible (but imagined) things to untold trillions of people (who don't exist), to real regimes that committed real crimes against real people. That is where most hobbyists draw the line.

That said, an army that wears trenchcoats and those funky fur caps is okay, just, I would advise, lay off the hammer-and-sickle.
 

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Also I found a web site to show me how to scratch build a tank from styrophome board, when I told my friend who works at GW about this he said ..."OH GOD YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE.." is this a social fopa? should I not do this, this is an expensive hobby and tanks cost a mint.
Please advise me on this!:soldier:
It depends on the quality of the conversion. If your custom-built tank is the best looking/painted conversion ever, people will love it. If it's a block of unpainted styrofoam with a big nail sticking out to represent the barrel... prepare for some hate. It would be akin to trying to play basketball with a $2 Spiderman yard-ball from Wal-Mart. Yes, it's round and about the same size. But anyone over age 5 will be annoyed with you for not taking the game seriously.

Generally, the good conversions take a lot of time/love and cost *more* in materials than simply buying the official set. People do them to get something unique, not to cheap-out.
 

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It depends on the quality of the conversion. If your custom-built tank is the best looking/painted conversion ever, people will love it. If it's a block of unpainted styrofoam with a big nail sticking out to represent the barrel... prepare for some hate. It would be akin to trying to play basketball with a $2 Spiderman yard-ball from Wal-Mart. Yes, it's round and about the same size. But anyone over age 5 will be annoyed with you for not taking the game seriously.

Generally, the good conversions take a lot of time/love and cost *more* in materials than simply buying the official set. People do them to get something unique, not to cheap-out.
I agree with the sentiment, but this is a slight over-generalization. What Kgoreham is stressing (to my mind) is that if one is to try and build one's own tanks instead of buying the models as GW packages them, one must show considerable effort and devotion and skill and imagination in service of building the model, or it is seen as cheapening 40k.

Does your model have to make GW cower in fear and awe of your skill? No. There are very few people in the world who could do that on a level playing field, and this is hardly a level playing field. You are expected, though, to put your best efforts in, to show that you are not cheapening the game by not buying the prescribed models; instead, you revere the game enough to want to add something of value.

Can there be flaws in your work? Yes. Does the model need to show signs of devotion, hard work, and ingenuity to be appreciated by your fellow wargamers? Very yes.

--Rafi
 

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lay off the hammer-and-sickle.
We have nothing lose but our chains, and an entire world to win. Workers of all countries, Unite!

As an Irish-American, I feel the same way certain people may feel about the Soviet Union in regards to the English Empire. I nearly got into a fistfight with a power gamer over the fact that my IG army was once referred to as the Fenian Guard. The guy actually challenged me to some kind of 1930's style bare-knuckle boxing match right outside the store. (It should be noted he was getting a new hole stomped into him by these Fenian scum.) A distant great-Uncle died in the H-Blocks in the 1960's, but I hold no ill will against the English people of thier government. That was a long time ago, English policy toward Ireland has changed with those times, and the Soviet Union died out twenty years ago this Christmas. And I will admit, the Soviet Union did murder thousands upon thousands, perhaps millions of it's own people and others, but that very history can be incorporated into your army, and if someone gets offended, well maybe they should be at home with the TV off.

My favorite opponent has old-school Tallarns painted as such, and while he never refers to them as Al-Qieda, the leader is named Bin laden. When playing him I have never thought about 9/11 or any of the horrible atrocities that group has committed.

Now I have never seen anyone with a swatstika painted on thier regimental banner, and I think that may be going a bit too far...so maybe that makes me a hypocrite. Maybe you shouldn't have even bothered reading this.

My two cents,
Lord Castellan Currans
 

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*snip*
As an Irish-American, I feel the same way certain people may feel about the Soviet Union in regards to the English Empire.
*snip*
Wow. As an Englishman, I'm tempted to say Thankyou, but seriously, there's no such thing.

If it weren't for the contributions of the Welsh, Irish and particularly the Scots (all by and large violent, inventive so-and-sos, and I'm glad we have them all on our side), the British Empire - for such it is - wouldn't have made it to the size it did, nor lasted as long. Likewise, under Empire, the Indian and Kenyan regiments were arguably the pride of the army; currently, under the commonwealth system, every officer knows the value of Fijian and Samoan men. England is a very small part of things, all told.

England is an administrative area within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or "The UK". Unlike Wales and Scotland, which have active devolution programmes and national assemblies, and Northern Ireland, which has been fighting for independence on and off for longer than I've been alive, England has no special say beyond being a majority stakeholder. But no decisions are taken 'for England', and no laws passed in her name. It's Britain.
 

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Well, let's also face it.
I'm an American, so I am mostly concerned with cheeseburgers, playing the lottery and watching cable TV. So what do I know about international affairs. (I didn't vote for Bush either time though.)

I mean no disrespect to anyone's homeland, I guess what I was trying to say that the horrors of the past should never be forgotten, but we shouldn't hang our heads low for atrocities committed half a century ago. The world has moved on, as should we.
 

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Now I have never seen anyone with a swatstika painted on thier regimental banner, and I think that may be going a bit too far...so maybe that makes me a hypocrite.
This made me lol.

Just wondering, what about if someone made an army based around Genghis Khan, a man who killed huge numbers of people, and raped so many women that a relatively large proportian of the modern world is decended from him.

Or seeing as your an american, what about an obviously american based army. A nation which set out with the intention to wipe out an entire ethnic group, and who have been the cause of quite possibly the most horrific scenes of destruction the world has ever seen.

Having an army which is blatently directly related to pretty much any nation of the world is likely to cause someone offense, certain ones will obviously cause more offense to some than other. By all means do it, just be aware of what you are referrencing, and don't be surprised if someone takes offense to it.
 

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Or seeing as your an american, what about an obviously american based army. A nation which set out with the intention to wipe out an entire ethnic group, and who have been the cause of quite possibly the most horrific scenes of destruction the world has ever seen.
You are actually very correct in your reasoning, but at the risk of turning this political I had to respond to this.

Since the only time America has set out to "wipe out an entire ethnic group" was early in its history in relation to the Native American, I will assume you are referring to this. While I agree that this was horrible and the cause of great violence and injustice, I think it is pretty clear that them good ole Nazi's caused far more destruction.

If you are trying to make some kind of statement in regards to the current conflicts in the Middle East, you aren't making sense :p. America doesn't want to wipe the Afghanis/Iraqis out, they just want to take all of their oil :p.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
uuuuh guys...

ALl I wanted was an opinion on my army....not to start a politicaL DISCUSSION...now I know how wars get started..so any how I posted some pix, advice, ideas etc...
Chief Koz:soldier:
 

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If you are trying to make some kind of statement in regards to the current conflicts in the Middle East, you aren't making sense :p. America doesn't want to wipe the Afghanis/Iraqis out, they just want to take all of their oil :p.
In regard's to this statement Afghanistan doesn't have any oil, so the rest of the world is unsure why you are there, for that matter I'm unsure why we are there (being Canadian). On the extended topic I really like themed armies even if they do make slightly provocative connections, I wouldn't do swastikas because I think it might offend someone, although personally I do have a strong temptation to do a Nazi orks, but anyways...

For the OP I really like the colour scheme and the army in general, not too much too comment on because my painting skills are meagre at best. But how about different coloured gloves? The ones now look a little metallic. Looking forward to the rest of the army.
 

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Politically America ae in Afghanistan to stop all the terrorists living there and to try and help stabilise the country.
I think that you can base your army on Russians just don't mention it directly, as it would cause.

As to the paint scheme, I like it. You've done the white.
 

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Or seeing as you're an American, what about an obviously American based army. A nation which set out with the intention to wipe out an entire ethnic group, and who have been the cause of quite possibly the most horrific scenes of destruction the world has ever seen.
On the other hand, an American army done with a sense of humour could be excellent. Doubly so if they're led by Inquisitor Truman, and his battle-barge Enola Gay, just waiting to rain down Exterminatus on the Tau, and Inquisitor McCarthy, who sees chaos and heresy under every bed and in every dark corner. In fact, if I didn't already have a fair-sized army in the pipeline, that would be my next project - Korean war themed Catachans (complete with M*A*S*H reference special characters), led by Inquisitor Mccarthy.
 

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ALl I wanted was an opinion on my army....not to start a politicaL DISCUSSION...now I know how wars get started..so any how I posted some pix, advice, ideas etc...
Chief Koz:soldier:

Indeed. ENOUGH.

If this keeps up, I'll lock the thread. This tangent has been done to DEATH in the General Discussion boards, but if you must keep this going, then take it there.

Keep it on topic, please.
 

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I don't want to continue this as a discusion, and therefore will not be mentioning anything else, I just wanted to clarify one thing...

If you are trying to make some kind of statement in regards to the current conflicts in the Middle East, you aren't making sense :p. America doesn't want to wipe the Afghanis/Iraqis out, they just want to take all of their oil :p.
I was in no way referring to any conflict, present or past, in the middle east.

Back to the thread.

I like the colour scheme, but if you are going to be doing the face in detail it looks like it needs a bit of touching up.
 

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This made me lol.

Just wondering, what about if someone made an army based around Genghis Khan, a man who killed huge numbers of people, and raped so many women that a relatively large proportian of the modern world is decended from him.

Or seeing as your an american, what about an obviously american based army. A nation which set out with the intention to wipe out an entire ethnic group, and who have been the cause of quite possibly the most horrific scenes of destruction the world has ever seen.

Having an army which is blatently directly related to pretty much any nation of the world is likely to cause someone offense, certain ones will obviously cause more offense to some than other. By all means do it, just be aware of what you are referrencing, and don't be surprised if someone takes offense to it.
That's why I play Eldar. The only people that I could possibly offend that way are Socrates or the Persian Emperor. Neither of whom is around today. I kid, I kid.


But seriously, I would suggest staying away from ALL reality-themed armies, unless you play Space Marines and field one of the Chapters that is intrinsically based on real people, such as the White Scars and Ghengis Khan, though to be honest even that is kind-of a grey area in my eyes.
 

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I like the russian theme, and I think ratlings snipers fit really well into that theme with images of stalingrad. that being said it would be awesome if you were able to make all the ratlings women and teens and such. dunno where you'd get many models though, only know of 2 female guardsmen (warrior woman from last chancers and the female grenadier) both of whom are not appropriately dressed for the winter.

I've based the tanks that go along with my tanith (who are in turn scottish) on the narmanians (who are germans). I'm not trying to say anything about the germans in WW2 other than acknowledge that they had perhaps the best armored units/tactics that this world will ever see, and as far as the scottish go I'm sure abnett picked them cuz they practically invented the gillie suit (camo cloaks) and they have cool accents.

of course most people would see the tanith reference before they take the extra step back to their real world counter parts. But I'm pretty sure the vahallans were meant to be WW2 russians anyway
 

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I like the russian theme, and I think ratlings snipers fit really well into that theme with images of stalingrad. that being said it would be awesome if you were able to make all the ratlings women and teens and such. dunno where you'd get many models though, only know of 2 female guardsmen (warrior woman from last chancers and the female grenadier) both of whom are not appropriately dressed for the winter.

I've based the tanks that go along with my tanith (who are in turn scottish) on the narmanians (who are germans). I'm not trying to say anything about the germans in WW2 other than acknowledge that they had perhaps the best armored units/tactics that this world will ever see, and as far as the scottish go I'm sure abnett picked them cuz they practically invented the gillie suit (camo cloaks) and they have cool accents.

of course most people would see the tanith reference before they take the extra step back to their real world counter parts. But I'm pretty sure the vahallans were meant to be WW2 russians anyway
There's some scorching female mini's in the escher range, (okay, not dressed for winter) and a very cool female commissar knocking around out there (more in the US than the UK)
For a good theme try out commissars, and of course conscripts.
Of course, you could be themed with your play style, by just throwing down alot of barely equipped troops and surging towards the enemy regardless of casualties.

You could always convert valhallans to be female - green stuff boobs (I hope that's not censored for being lewd. we will see....) and get a bunch of ork heads with top knots, and have them coming out of the back of the helmets like hair.

I think all the old metal ranges were based on one thing or another:
Ice warriors - WWII russians. definately
Catchans - American Vietnam / Rambo films
Cadians - WWII americans / mixed with vietnam (helmets esp.)
Pretorians - "Orks sah, Faaaasands of them!"
Rough Riders - Mongols.
Mordians - A bit harder, but I'd guess dress uniform WWII Navy
Steel Legion - Very German (esp. if you use the double lightning bolt shoulder patches. In fact quite tasteless)
Ratlings - Old "Green Jackets"
and the new F/W renegades are WWI Trench warfare.
Even the tanks were based on WWII / WWI styles - The leman russ profile is if i recall a British MK IV, and they also got the rights for a Char bis II (Chimera), and - i'm acting on hazy memory here in all of this bit - GW got the original moulds by buying a Airfix/Similar existing model tank and 40k'ing it. I can't reference this unfortunately.
For a bit of a laugh I remember the epic Leviathan was based on a "Flying elephant" tank prototype - I'm not kidding. They called it that. Can you imagine "Look out Hanz, the flying elephanten is coming!"
If you wanted to add a little bit of depth to your tank fluff you can distinguish them as male and female - Original tanks were either Male with 25 Inch Naval Guns, of Female with machine guns. I'd assume lascannons = male, heavy bolters = female.
for extra detail, and a bit of banter you could add carrier pidgeon holes to the sponsoons (communication during battle before radio) Semaphore masts (colured flags, same reason) But it's a bit unfortunate you can't do the crew communicating by banging the side with a large wrench (The crew shared the interior of the tank with the engine, no cover. the fumes were so bad that after battle the crews would sometimes pass out on exposure to clean air). Apparently a good way of cooling down the machine guns, which were prone to jamming was to urinate on them, and chain mail was hung over the view points (and would disintegrate when shot, the early tanks were not immune to bullets at the view points or, even the main plates)
Edit: Oh, for you american enthusiasts out there, you could have your flamethrower equipped tanks steam driven - An early american tank was deliberatly steam powered as it also propelled the flame throwers.
Just don't have the fuel tanks at the top front of the tank, like the originals.

to be quite honest I like the idea of making your own tanks as long as you do a good job. You can get spare tracks off any old school IG player (I'd amassed enough and was planning to build a baneblade, with two sets each side before they released the plastic kit) although they also sell just the track sprues on the GW website (i'm pretty sure)
Plasticard will serve you well, If you find a old school IG player they may even have a spare set of sponsoons (depending how they equipped their tanks - triple HB's was a normal standard though)
To make rivets get 1mm evergreen rods / They're also found in the Gale Force 9 plasticard assortment pack, get a scalpel and cut thm in 0.5 - 1mm lengths and glue them to your plasticard sheet (blob glue onto the sheet, and i found dip just the tip of your scalpel into the glue and use it to pick up the cut rod, place and move about as appropriate. When totally dry take a flat file, and carefully file them all down to a uniform height.
You can buy the turret sprue from GW, or buy a F/W turret for almost the same price. If you find a Old School Ig player who has F/W turretts they should have some spare standard ones anyway. (Offer them some dollars, you're nicking alot at this point)
Oh, if you get the Gale force 9 assortment pack it comes with various I beams and tubes - the I beams are good for scenic bases and scenery, the tubes fit very well indeed into one another, if you cut two that fit into one another, and sink the bigger one into your hull and the smaller onto the turret it'll rotate. (I did some rather silly planetstrike defence networks using the vulcan megabolter from the shadowsword/other silly super heavy kits and made them their own plasticard turrets. There's 2 of them and a baneblade turret emplacement for apocalypse planetstrike games.)

I would THOROUGHLY reccommend making your tanks the same size as existing tanks - when you put them down you don't want your opponent complaining you have an advantage as it's bigger / smaller / has a better fire arc.
Also, to keep the Local GW happier I'd use some GW bits prominently so they can be that little bit more satisfied. (turret / sponsoons)
Dagnammit! I don't need any more tanks. I've just convinced myself to actually make a Adeptus Mechanicus Ordinatus "Counts as" shadowsword now. I started my adeptus Mechanicus Army as a 250 point "Clip on" to a warhound titan to make it a round 1000 points, then enjoyed it so much and recieved so many compliments I added 500 points, now i'm making a 1750 stand alone army with scratch build dreadnaughts, and I'm going to have to add a scratch built shadowsword now.
Aarrgghh!!! It's spiralling out of control !
PM me if you want more help scratch building tanks and we'll do it together (I'll be at least a month before i start, dreads to do first) and i'll take my time doing it, mind, and probably be tardy in replying to any help requests, but i'll do it eventually.
 
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