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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is my second take at my upcoming pet project. I've definetly decided upon using the Space Wolves as my Chapter, though not necessarily their fluff. Fluff will be more in line with the Salamanders and how they like things burny. Keeping in line with my love for all things gimmiky, the entire army utilizes Deep Strike, with the exception of two units.


Note - the list has been edited since this post. See post #4 for changes that were made.


HQ -
Venerable Dread - 210 points
+Multimelta, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Drop Pod

Battle Leader - 117
Bolt Pistol + Frost Blade
Space Marine Bike, Frag Grenades

Battle Leader - 117
Bolt Pistol + Frost Blade
Space Marine Bike, Frag Grenades


Elites -
Dreadnaught - 150 points
Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Drop Pod.

Dreadnaught - 150 points
Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Drop Pod.

Dreadnaught - 150 points
Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Drop Pod.


Troops -
Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 204 points
Two armed with Bolter and Powerfist, rest armed with Bolter/CCW.

Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 204 points
Two armed with Bolter and Powerfist, rest armed with Bolter/CCW.

Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 204 points
Two armed with Bolter and Powerfist, rest armed with Bolter/CCW.

Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 194 points
Two armed with Bolter and Power weapon, rest armed with Bolter/CCW.


Fast Attack
Landspeeder Tornado - 75 points
Multimelta+Flamer

Landspeeder Tornado - 75 points
Multimelta+Flamer


The Battle Leaders are there to simply fulfill the HQ requirement. I hope that the enemy moves a few units up the battlefield to remove them, allowing better placement and target selection for Drop Pods.

The Ven Dread is armed with a Multimelta, which hopefully his increased BS will allow him to toast a tank on the turn he arrives, even with a bad scatter roll. The other three are "Dreads in training" and haven't earned their Meltas yet, though are armed with Flamers to toast anyone hiding in cover for when my Drop Pods arrive.

I think this might be the list I go with - anyone have any changes they suggest?
 

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Ghost of LO
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Well,

Battle Leader - 63
Bolter + CCW

Battle Leader - 63
Bolter + CCW
These obiovsouly arent being used effectively, for 15 points, you could at least arm them with a powerweapon. Youve already paid for termintor honours with them, its to your advantage to at least make some use of them.

Venerable Dread - 213 points
+Multimelta, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers, Drop Pod
This guy is extreamily expensive, and will rarely earn his points, a melta + ten strenth DCCW is way to high a priorety for most armies to allow to live. Id suggest you take him with an assault cannon, so he can lead by example, instead of superiorety.

Hes also a far better infantry killer then he ever will be tank hunter.

Dreadnaught - 153 points
Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers, Drop Pod.

Dreadnaught - 153 points
Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers, Drop Pod.

Dreadnaught - 153 points
Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers, Drop Pod.
There isnt a situation where having smoke makes sence with these dreads:
Your going to start somewhere between 1" and 11" from the enemy. So, a result that prevents you from shooting, still allows you to charge, popping smoke then is simply a wast.

invest the 9 points towards powerswords or something like that.

Troops -
Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 224 points
Two armed with Bolter and Powerfist, two armed with Meltaguns. Rest armed with Bolter/CCW.

Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 224 points
Two armed with Bolter and Powerfist, two armed with Meltaguns. Rest armed with Bolter/CCW.

Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 224 points
Two armed with Bolter and Powerfist, two armed with Meltaguns. Rest armed with Bolter/CCW.

Grey Hunters Pack, eight men in a Drop Pod - 224 points
Two armed with Bolter and Powerfist, two armed with Meltaguns. Rest armed with Bolter/CCW.
You may only have 1 melta gun per GH squad.

Landspeeder Tornado - 75 points
Multimelta+Flamer

Landspeeder Tornado - 75 points
Multimelta+Flamer
This the heavy flamers, dont deep strike these, simply keep them out of LOS behind cover, that way, you have more anti tank when your first dreads arrive.

You have overlooked an incredably good asasult/anti tank squad. That beind wolve scouts, which your armies would support amazingly well. Take a look at them in your dex, then combine that with 4 drop podding dreadnoughts.

Thats a pretty nice combo.

I suggest you load your scouts out like this: 6 man 1 melta gun. WG leader, powerfist + bolt pistol.

Now youve got a squad that can, A) tank hunt on rear armour, B) assasult basically anything inside the enemy deployment zone, such as dev squad, or dark reapers, crisis battle suits, ect.

Behind enemy lines is one of the best abilities in all the game.

Good Hunting.

Changes above would be 79 points, minus 30 for powerswords, so, thats 49, youd need nother 100 from somewhere to field the scouts.

Anterantlivly, you could take a very scaled down version of the scouts, made only for anti tank, 1 melta gun, 4 dudes.

thats a very inexpensive squad, with desent anti tank.
 

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This is actually a very interesting twist on the Wolves. I never thought I'd see an "amost all" drop pod SW force (even though the superceded codex use to force all drop pod forces). I really like it and would like to see how it pans out.

I love the idea that the V Dred takes Multi-Meltas as part of the fluff versus cheesing out with more assault cannons. I also love that there are FOUR Grey Hunter packs...definately balances out such a heavy Dred force...

Also, very interesting use of WGBL....as basically tools for mis-direction. I think the rules are somehow broken when your HQ has to WALK-IN on foot while the rest of your force drops in. One idea, is to give them bikes...but why when they're there to mainly mis-direct your opponents early game. However....

As already noted, GH packs can only take ONE Meltagun. I suggest you direct the extra points to bikes for your HQ (just to taunt your foes with mobile annoyances), or extra plasma pistols for your GH packs.

As for smoke...hmm, unless you need to shave points, one never knows when smoke deployment might be needed.

Just my thoughts,
Fox
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good stuff, both of you. Just what I was looking for.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
These obiovsouly arent being used effectively, for 15 points, you could at least arm them with a powerweapon. Youve already paid for termintor honours with them, its to your advantage to at least make some use of them.
Originally, I was going to give them Termie armour and DS them with the army. But apparently, Space Wolves are chickens about that whole thing, and refuse to. So then I was looking into mounting them on bikes and giving them Meltaguns through the bike, but apparently Loyalist marines can't do that. So many toys that you Loyalists have to do without - how DO you get by? Combi-meltas are too expensive, and if I'm going to pay 35 points for a Bike, I might as well pay 5 points less points just to buy them their own Drop Pod (I hope I interpreted the rules correctly, but it doesn't really matter now). So with that idea gone, I just figured they'd be throw away figures. ^_^

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
This guy is extreamily expensive, and will rarely earn his points, a melta + ten strenth DCCW is way to high a priorety for most armies to allow to live. Id suggest you take him with an assault cannon, so he can lead by example, instead of superiorety.
No, you're right - the Multimelta is too much. It just fit so well in the fluff. Normally I sacrifice fluff in favour of effectiveness, but I don't think I'm going to do so in this case. While I want the list to be good, I'm not willing to sacrifice all of my fluff ideas for a little bit more in the way of fluff.

Although, if I'm short ten points on something, I'll keep it in mind.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
There isnt a situation where having smoke makes sence with these dreads:
Your going to start somewhere between 1" and 11" from the enemy. So, a result that prevents you from shooting, still allows you to charge, popping smoke then is simply a wast.
Good point. The smokes were added as an after thought - extra points, nothing to spend on.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
You may only have 1 melta gun per GH squad.
Again, I blame the lack of toys in the Loyalist legions.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
This the heavy flamers, dont deep strike these, simply keep them out of LOS behind cover, that way, you have more anti tank when your first dreads arrive.
Good point. I'll keep that in mind.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
You have overlooked an incredably good asasult/anti tank squad. That beind wolve scouts, which your armies would support amazingly well. Take a look at them in your dex, then combine that with 4 drop podding dreadnoughts.
The problem I had with Wolf Scouts was that for every unit of them I use, I lose a Dread. And to add in a Wolf Leader I'd sacrifice another. I did want to use them, but felt to keep in line with the fluff I was writing I'd make all Elites choices Dreads. There is one Dread for each Troops choice, sort of like a Mentor.

So I've edited the main post - dropped the Smoke Launchers and illegal Meltaguns. Is it even worth keeping the single Meltas in the squads then? I don't mind wasting an entire turn of Bolter shots for two Meltas, but only one? I can't see that as worthwhile. If I drop the Meltas all together, I can afford Drop Pods + Frost Blades for both the Battle Leaders..... let's give that a try, and see what we come up with.
 

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Well, if your firing that melta in kill zone range: 6 inches, and for some horrible reason you miss :cry: You can assault ull get 4 more trys with powerfists. So your not completely wasting the bolter firepower.

Also, melta guns have more uses then just tank killing.

There are many enemies, such as tau, which you wont ever be able to charge, but popping them with a melta gun will help even then odds. And with some luck, and crafty drop pod use, you might just pull of a draw.

Yes us layalist marines have it very rough, especially space wolves, they need a specail rule allowing there HQs to drop pod with GHs and maybe Blood claws.

Although, space wolves are one of the best chapters around, they certainly arent deathgaurd.
All the codex chapters have it pretty rough at the moment.

Nerfed Bts, Dark angles(with the exception of ravenwing) horrible, Blood angles now have a useless rihno.. yay overchagred death coffins! And of course Space wolves have no place to put there HQs, which they need more of then any other chapter.

Dark days for the space marines...

I forgot about your 3 elite choice limit. Thats a bummer. I suppose more drop pods is better then scouts...

Rune preists kittied out can be great, frost blades are wounderful.

And storm caller will recude injuries during your infantry advance.

It does... and it doesnt fit with your list, in a sence, but space wolves have nice termintors. They dont cost you an elite choice.

Storm bolter + lightening claw, great combo, with 3 assault cannons + HQ. Its a very VERY expensive, but fun way of getting lots of shooty power, as well as CC abaility.

Peace
 

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I don't think you can put Wolf HQs into Drop Pods by themselves...

I was trying to find a way to do so, but without Terminators/Wolf Guard, I don't think it's going to happen. No where in Codex: Space Marine can an independent HQ take a drop pod for themselves. They must have a retinue (or for Space Wolves, be accompanied by Wolf Guard Boydguards).

With two thinned out drop pods, you have a solid 60pts to play with.

I recommend meltas though for your GHs. Not only to pop vehicles but also to give your wolves a bit more bite at longer range especially against "tougher" units. More so, against tougher monsterous creatures, popping a few melta shots at them may weaken them before the pure powerfisting goodness comes into play during CC. I've had a game where the melta whacked off a wound on a Wraithlord, and in CC my Rune Priest cut it down with his Frost Blade....the Eldar player sat there stunned...not knowing what to say. The poor wolf pups didn't end up using their powerfists...poor guys.

With extra points, you can always get...err, Frag Grenades or Plasma Pistols for your GHs. You can also restore smoke for your Dreds.... Imagine last turn, your Dreds are holding ground but are out of range to rain assault cannon death upon your foes Heavy Support.... Pop the smoke and hold ground!

Another option....drop the Frost Blades and squeeze in another Speeder. That would be anti-tank scaryness. That would mean...FOUR solid troop choices....THREE Anti-Horde/Light Armor Dred action, one mean mother of a V Dred, and THREE solid anti-tank (or whatever) speeders. This would make your force very formidable, very versatile, very aggressive, and very different for wolves. I would love to see how this plays out. And imagine starting the game with TWO models on the board....the war leaders of the Wolves....kinda reminds me of that moment in Gladiator when the Germanic Barbarian leader stands before the Roman lines screaming insults and waving his sycthe.

Fox
 

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Ghost of LO
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I didnt notice the drop pods on the HQs, heh. Yea, i think thats ilegal, im not sure, but you know you cant select a rihno for an HQ alone, so it seems reasonable that you cant select anything else either.

Thats probably for the best, no reason to give your opponent an easy kill, put those guys with the greyhunters and make the greyhunters the terror that they are ment to be.

Peace
 

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As per 4th Edition rules though, I don't think the ICs can join the Grey Hunters (Troop choice) in the Drop Pods. I know it sounds rediculous....but that's what the rules state! ICs can be deployed with a unit when the game begins...but that's it. They cannot "attach" to a unit after Deployment...so if they were to come in as reserves, they would have to walk in, and not jump in the Drop Pod with the other Wolves (how sad is that????).

So as the army stands, the two wolf lords...WALK in on foot! How even sadder is that????
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Let me explain my reasoning on how I came to the conclusion that Space Wolf ICs can take Drop Pods -

In the Space Wolves FAQ, it says that you follow the rules for Drop Pod Assault from the Space Marines Codex, but you continue to use the list of eligable models from the Space Wolves Codex. Essentially, anything that's listed in the Space Wolves Codex as eligable can take Drop Pods from the Space Marines.

Reading the Space Wolves list of eligable models, it states that "...any model in power armour or terminator armour...."

While I agree it's dodgy, it seemed legal enough. Of course, only Space Wolves have this option, and only because it's a loop hole in how the rules are laid out.

Regarding the Battle Leaders themselves - I'm not willing to sacrifice any other units for their sake, and they can't join any other unit that has a Drop Pod (silly rules). Considering that, it looks like they'll be foot slogging it.

What do you think about Termie armour for them? The Storm Bolter would help give them longer range, and the armour help them survive the trek in.

Or, if I give up Extra Armour on two Dreads, or possibly the Multimelta on the Ven, I could give them bikes.
 

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Interesting take for the Space Wolves and Drop Pods. Hehe.

I don't think giving up extra armor is a good idea...have em' walk! They are there only to fill compulsory slots...as you know. Keep em' cheap and let your army do their thing!

Termie armor is great, but I would keep your leaders cheap...at 60-70pts each, that's way cheap meaning you can deck out your main units. These guys are unlikely to see close-combat till turn...3 or so if at all. And using your leaders to "shoot" with storm bolters? That's investing TOO many points into them just to shoot. Maybe a power sword or something or even Frost Blades would be better. But again, your leaders are forced choices that you are filling just because you have to. Plus, on some level, they will greatly distract your foes. Some players, I think, would rather try to blow away your 60pt Wolf Leaders versus your much more terrifying and deadly Speeders. Now if your HQs were decked out with all sorts of fun toys, I can see why you'd want to give them extra armor or speed (bikes) to rush them into combat...but here, that's not the case.

Plus, we all know the V Dred is leading this assault force.

Just my thoughts... Might want to play test it a few times to see what works better.

Fox
 

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Ghost of LO
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Actually, i think bikes are a great idea. They could play the mission of the scouts.

Zoom them up 24"s and out of LOS the first turn, alone with your melta skimmers.

Then when on the average 2 dreadnoughts and 2 GH squads arrive, zoom them out again, and assault Heavy weapon units. 2 HQs is generally more then a enough to overwhelm the enemies shooty eliments.

I suggest you free up points by removing the heavy flamers on the skimmers.

Your skimmers wont really get any targets, the second turn, they need to shoot tanks,

The third turn, almost everything infantry will be in CC. + you already flamed between 4 and 6 times. Probably nothing left thats really gonna get hurt by the flamer.


I think your list is great with the dudes on bikes.

Nicely done.
 

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That looks nice Caluin.

On your thing with the Meltaguns, You can either drop the bolters on the grey hunters, so all are CC based and can charge anyway (trough pistol firing) or get yourself a plasmagun instead of the Meltagun, so you line up with the bolters.

On your thing with the bike versus Drop Pod. Bikes are more commonly used than Drop Pods, and to be honest, would be more effective, so you can pose a real threat to your opponent first two/three turns. Team them bikers up. Even I made a list with two Biker Battle leaders. Really heavy stuff. Next to that, a lone drop pod seems a bit of a waste...

Next to that, I really like the fluffy 'flame and be purged' idea.
As for staying Wolfish, I say, make them the Fire Breather army.
Matches your idea (no, that ain't a typo :p)

Greetings,
Wulfbanes
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
You guys convinced me to give the Battle Leaders bikes. I like the idea of them being harassing units up front, and actually being something for the enemy to worry about rather than ignore at his leisure. Dropped two Powerfists to Power weapons in a Grey Hunters pack to make up the points - also dropped the Bolters to Bolt Pistols on the HQ to free up enough points for frags.

It also makes a bit of fluff sense - the Bikers/Landspeeders are the scouting party, looking for enemy encampments. When they find the enemy, they call in the Drop Pod ready troops.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
I suggest you free up points by removing the heavy flamers on the skimmers.
That I'm iffy on. I play a few infantry heavy opponents, and having two Landspeeders than can only take out a single model per round seems wasteful. Atleast with the Flamer they can stand to kill two or three MEQs, with a bit of luck. Ideally I'd like for them to have Assault Cannon + Heavy Bolter, but I promised myself fluff before effeciency.

Wulfbanes said:
Next to that, I really like the fluffy 'flame and be purged' idea.
As for staying Wolfish, I say, make them the Fire Breather army.
I was thinking "Fire Hydras." Cheesy, no? But hey, if you have a theme that works, stick to it.

Though there were a couple in that "I need a name" thread that caught my eye.

Thanks everyone for the input. The only thing I feel is missing is the special weapons in the Grey Hunters, but I think the Landspeeders and Dreads should be able to fill that roll just fine.
 

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If you decide on bikes, I would try to fit in a small bike squad with 2 flamers. It would be excellent against infantry (flamers that move 12" are very effective), and could kill a lot with a charge.

A 3 man bike squad with 2 flamers costs about 130 pts...

If you need to model 2 battle leaders on bikes, a white scars commander box would be excellent, as the head already looks SWish and you could add some SW embellishments to the model.
 

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Caluin I agree with you on leaving the heavy flamers on the 'Speeders. About the GH special weapons, you indeed miss them, but there isn't really a place you could roam for points.
Unless you wish to drop one GH pack for 1 (or more) units of Bikers to support the WGBLs.

I was thinking "Fire Hydras." Cheesy, no? But hey, if you have a theme that works, stick to it.

Though there were a couple in that "I need a name" thread that caught my eye.
Well, there is a SW Great Company named after some fire-breathing wolf. I don't remember the exact name, but I figure that's the Fire Breathers Wulfbanes is talking about.

A 3 man bike squad with 2 flamers costs about 130 pts...
102 pts only that costs.


Tai'shar
 

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Araith said:
Well, there is a SW Great Company named after some fire-breathing wolf. I don't remember the exact name, but I figure that's the Fire Breathers Wulfbanes is talking about.

Tai'shar
That I was talking about, although I understand the misconfusion. There is some fluff on them in the back of the Space Wolves codex, which I unfortunatly borrowed to someone today.

You could always play them as Hydra's with Wolf Rules if you want to, but I suggest to take a bit of time to look up some of the Fire Breathers Fluff. So you wouldn;t be in conflict with any other Space Wolf about the reality on your guys.

On the Speeder Flamer, I am not convinced with the usability (I like speeders cheap, and able to kill tanks. That;s why I have 2 multi-melta speeders for 130 pts.) But I say leave them on. They rock your fluffyness.
 
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