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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Army wide special rules:

Ambush: Gor and Ungor units can "ambush", if there is another equivalent unit of the same size or larger in the main battle line. They do so by rolling on the following table:

1 - Enemy chooses the board edge
2 + 3: Don't come in this round
4: Beastman player's left edge
5: Beastman player's right edge
6: Beastman player chooses (including behind enemy)

Character's can't Ambush, except for the special ungor champ

Primal Fury:

Units with Primal Fury (Gors, Ungors, Bestigors, Tuskgor Chariots, characters) take a leadershp test when they get in combat. They get Hatred if they pass, just for that phase, even if it's not the first phase in the combat.

Lords:

Beastlord: This is a fairly typical combat character. He's got 100 points for gifts + items, none of which are amazing. He's got 5 for str and tough, and 4 attacks, and that's about the most impressive things about him. He's also ld 9. The only mount options he's got are the tuskgor chariot and the new razorgor chariot. He's got Primal Fury.

Doombull: This is a much fightier guy. He's got an ogre base, and 5 wounds. He's got a point higher strength, and another attack. He doesn't have primal fury though, and his leadership is only 8. He's Frenzy, and gives it to any unit he joins (taking away their Primal Fury at the same time) and has BloodGreed. The new Bloodgreed makes the unit in question only pursue or overrun d6 inches.

Great Bray Shaman: This is the Caster Lord. He's more expensive than the Beastlord, natch, and doesn't really fight (though he's still t5). He's level 3 and can be upgraded to level 4, has 100 points of items, and can have a chariot if he wants. He's between the other two in terms of point cost.

Typical caster lord, he can use the new Lore of the Beasts, or any of the more evil lores from the main book (think Death, Shadow, Beasts).

Khazrak:

He's slightly more expensive than a typical Beastlord with full gear (comparable cost really), and has a slightly better statline. He lets his ambushers reroll on the chart. He's got a weapon that can trade out his attacks for the # of enemy models in the front rank, unless he's in a challenge. His armor makes enemy magic weapons mundane.

Gorthor:

He's about as expensive as a Beastlord with full items on a chariot. He rides a Tuskgor chariot, but can pay some points to get it upgraded to a razorgor chariot. He's got KB, and his leadership goes 18". It's 9 like the Beastlord though.

Malagor:

He's a level 4 Caster, who flies. He also can pick the same lores as the Bray Shaman, and flies. Enemy units in 6" of him can't use their general's ld unless he's in their unit, while friendlies in 6" of him get to reroll their primal fury. He's about the same price as Gorthor.

To my mind, he's the right Lord for a magic heavy list, better for the points than a Great Bray Shaman.

Taurox:

He's a Doombull made of brass, and he hits like a truck. He's got a pair of axes that ignore armor saves and are flaming, and he's just as frenzied/bloodgreedy as the normal Doombull, but has slightly higher stats. He's also toting a 1+ armor save. He's got a weakness though, if any attack hits him on a 6 and wounds him on a 6 and he fails his save it's instantly fatal. He's got more attacks and more toughness/wounds than a normal Doombull though.

Heroes:

Wargor:

Basic fighting hero. Just like a smaller Beastlord. He's only s4, same chariot options. He can be BSB

Gorebull:

Fighting minotaur hero, just like a smaller Doombull. He's still s5, still fighty, 4 wounds. Same frenzy troubles as the rest of the boss minotaurs. He can also be bsb.

Bray Shaman:

Typical caster hero. Take 2 with scrolls and call me in the morning.

Morghur:

He's about as expensive as a Beastlord with full gear. He's got a weaker statline (t5, 2 wounds are the standouts), and his powers are much reduced.

During the magic phase you remove a friendly model within 12", and on a 3+ put a spawn in its place. He's also still immune to stuff from beyond 12". He does s3 attacks to BSB models before init, so that's down a point of str. It still ignores armor saves though. He's also still unbreakable.

Slugtongue:

He's a level 2 mage, about as expensive as a Great Bray Shaman without gear. He can take Death or the new Lore. He's got regenerate and his one attack is poison.

His big gimmick is that after deployment you roll for each enemy unit within 36" of him. 1-3 they are fine, 4-5 they take d3 wounds without saves, 6 they take d6. He's like a famine guy.

Moonclaw:

He's the price of a Great Bray Shaman, with an option to buy a cavalry mount for him for like another 50 points. He's a weak mage (can't recall if level 1 or 2), and he makes everyone within 12", friendly or enemy, Stupid. One round 1 2 or 3, determined secretly beforehand, he gets d3+1 stone thrower shots. He's also got a 5+ ward save.

Core:

Gors: Bad fighting infantry. They are about like Ork boys, tough 4 and ws 4 are their best points.

Ungors: Worse fighting in fantry, they are abotu like skaven warriors, minus anything terribly good. They have a super champ who's pretty cheap. He gets ld each round, pass and he's a better warrior, fail and he's a first level mage with a random spell.

Ungor raiders: Skirmishing archers with short bows. These guys and the two above are Ambushers.

Tuskgor Chariot: 5 points cheaper, no scythes, still counts for mandatory choices. Tuskgors no longer have s5 on the charge, now s4 all the time. These guys and the above 3 have Primal Fury.

Warhounds: Same as WoC warhounds, don't count for mandatory Core.

Special:

Minotaurs: They are over 50 points each before you give them wargear, and their gear is pretty expensive. They can have full command, and are s5 before the great weapons. They've got Bloodgreed, so they only pursue and overrun d6 inches and get frenzy if they win a round of combat.

Centigaur: They aren't fast cav. They don't move through terrain. They are just basic cav now, move 8 at least. They've got spears, and can buy great weapons if they want. Just medium cav. They get to roll on a table before the game, 1-2 is +2 init (bringing them from 2 to 4), 3-4 is reroll failed primal fury rolls, 5-6 is stubborn, but -1 move.

They can take a special character champ, who is actually pretty cool. He's got a good ws, s5 and a d3 wound weapon. He also makes them core, and can take Look Out Sir rules as long as there is one of his unit left.

Razorgors: Great Ogre based models. They are the same cost as Minotaurs, but s5 and t5, with 4 attacks and on the charge their s goes to 6. They go 7 instead of 6. First class unit.

Razorgor Chariot: Super chariot, 5 for str, tough, wounds. One razorgor pulling, one bestigor riding, one ungor driving. Price is between 2 and 3 Razorgors.

Bestigors: They come with heavy armor and great weapons, and still have primal fury.

Harpies: As per Dark Elf codex, but they are also able to Scout for +3 points each.

Rare:

Ghorghon: This thing is almost 300 points, basically a super minotaur. It's got frenzy, ITP and stubborn at ld 10. It only pursues/overruns d6. It's got amazing statline, almost all 6's, like am mini-kholek. It can do a Swallows Whole thing, but it's really bad, better to just fight.

Cygor: Same point line as the Ghorghon, but with 5's for wounds, tough, and only ws 2 instead of 4. It's a stone thrower though, as long as it doesn't march, and it can reroll hits vs. anyone who is undead, has magic items, or magic attacks, or has a ward save, or is a Mage. Also, enemies within 24" have to take a ld test at the start of their magic phase, if they fail any failed casts are miscasts. Still stubborn, but only 8 instead of 10 for ld.

Jabberslyth: Flying thing with 5's for stats (str, tough, attacks, etc.), so it's a flying terror causing rank breaker. Also, any non ITP enemy within 12" has to take a ld test or take wounds equal to however much it fails. Not sure if it's stubborn, but I don't think it is.

Giant: Same as Ork giant. Typical guy, typical price.

Spawn: Same as elsewhere, 1-2 for a Rare slot.

Spells:

Don't recall precisely, but the 0 is a move spell that can't make charges, the 1 is a 5d6 s1 magic missile that doesn't ignore armor saves, there's a blessing that gives +d6 attacks and +d6 str, but 6's wound the guy without a save, s3 breathe weapon from caster or someone nearby that ignores armor save, spell that makes mounts and monsters rebel and attack handlers/riders, spell that makes enemies take ld or take wounds equal to how much they failed by, and a spell that summons a Monster, basically any of the rare choices.
 

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Nightlord
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All in all a pretty uninspired armybook based on what I read as well. I can't list points here, but suffice to say the standard Gor lost skirmish, gained a Ld, and went up in points. I honesty don't see why anyone would field any of the core units in the army aside from the minimum. Looking at Gors and Dark Elf Warriors, the Gors are more expensive for a unit that has worse Ld, Worse init, and has no armor, and has to test for hatred instead of having it all the time. Loosing skirmish, the thing I started playing the army for, is a big hit in my opinion. It might be one of those books that new players to the army love and old folks who like the old rules now hate. I'll play a game with the new rules, but I expect them to just be overpriced brown orcs. Heck, even the centigors are more expensive than Empire Knights (and we all know how "meh" those are) for a model with only a 4+ save.
 

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Remember you can roll for hatred/frenzy in EVERY turn of combat though. Not just the first.

I agree, it's a shame that they have taken away the skirmish side of the army - now we only have two units that are skirmishers - Harpies (Which can also be scouts - thus getting a first turn charge) and Ungor Raiders (Scouts as well I think, plus archers - so all of them can shoot, no 'first rank' limitation)

The newer models are nicer, I must admit, I do like them more. The minotaurs are filthy now - they gain cumalative frenzy if they win combat.

Centigor can be made core choices and I always loved these models and their stats.

I don't believe the Gor went up in points - the Ungor did by 1 I think. I did a comparison of the two books when the book came in ages ago with the black box.

The Ghorgon swallow whole ability - HEALS it, it's used when he's been beaten around a bit ;)

Cygor can only see magic, they have a low WS but reroll to hit any mages, and anything magical - Hello Undead! Hello Champion with that nice shiny ring!

Jabberslythes make enemies insane.

The level six spell of the Wild Lore - SUMMONS a chaos giant, a Ghorgon or a Jabberslythe - players choice! For Free. That's a rare for free. Downside? Could kill the shaman, and the shaman can only move - no combat or magic until the summon is killed - it cannot be dispelled or dismissed after casting.

There is a spell which makes all mounts, chariots and monsters attack their riders with no bonus to AC for being mounted or anything - because it's turned on them.

Overall I'm excited about the release, they are very different from the old book - they've been given a new culture and the army will play differently - but not in a major, major fashion. Biggest changes, admittedly, are to the Gor/Ungor which were our staple and should still be. They're separate in units but still could work together very well. Ambush could produce amazing results. The table is incredibly balanced - granted a lot of other armies are not so much anymore, but we have other rules that are quite nasty!

[Edit]

There are also several other things you missed like Minotaurs causing impact hits and such, but I have to get ready for a party so will have to check back later :)
 
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The level six spell of the Wild Lore - SUMMONS a chaos giant, a Ghorgon or a Jabberslythe - players choice! For Free. That's a rare for free. Downside? Could kill the shaman, and the shaman can only move - no combat or magic until the summon is killed - it cannot be dispelled or dismissed after casting.
I was wondering whether to get beasts after reading about godzilla armies in 40K, but with only 2 large targets at 2000 points I gave up my dream......this spell pleases me. Plus yay for converting 4+ crazy chaos mutants (fingers crossed).
 

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Cygor can only see magic, they have a low WS but reroll to hit any mages, and anything magical - Hello Undead! Hello Champion with that nice shiny ring!
Cygor: Same point line as the Ghorghon, but with 5's for wounds, tough, and only ws 2 instead of 4. It's a stone thrower though, as long as it doesn't march, and it can reroll hits vs. anyone who is undead, has magic items, or magic attacks, or has a ward save, or is a Mage. Also, enemies within 24" have to take a ld test at the start of their magic phase, if they fail any failed casts are miscasts. Still stubborn, but only 8 instead of 10 for ld.

How does this apply to the range? Does this mean the stonethrower partial hits get to reroll?
 

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King of Librarium's Tombs
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I pretty much agree with Frozencore. Yet another well themed army has been tossed out in favour of "power". Ill get the book if only to have a read through, but otherwise ill be sticking to the old army book me thinks (or my own if possible ;))
 

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Cyph3r Shadow: This only applies to close combat.

In the name of devils' advocate though, I will say rulewise, not a lot has changed. Marks are gone, herds have been split, skirmishers are fewer. We have been given rules that would have fit previous edition beasts as well.

So if you had a marked army or full minotaur army - I can imagine you being fairly pissed.

As it is though - a lot of points of things hasn't changed. I did a side by side between the two books when it first arrived in the store. A lot of points haven't actually changed, but special rules have been adjusted to bring up the power a little - the stats haven't been shuffled around all too much either. A few tweaks here and there.

I am saddened by the loss of skirmish, as it's one of the many things that drew me to this army. However, you could probably arrange in friendly games to still utilise skirmish rules or raiders rules with your opponent on a game to game basis.

The guys who wrote the book admitted they wanted to convey the fact Beastmen were an armed, militant force to rival any other in the realms - not a rag tag group of loose raiders that barely pose a threat. Which I believe is the main influence on blocking units. Block infantry simply gives that message clearer than a skirmished unit - may not make me a fan of it, but the logic is there :(

Fluffwise, I liked the books, in contained some interesting details yet I found some points a little presumptuous on reading the Beasts of Chaos rulebook, and having a prior knowledge.

There are certainly some core changes in the way you form an army, it does require a shift in gear tactically, but I don't think it's Beast-Breaking. The book is certainly worth a read - and a serious try, a few battles with the new book before looking at it with negative eyes *is* worth it. I have only played a scarce few battles with the current book, so I know that I am coming from a position many of you are not with and I am not 'upping' the book as the new messiah of beastmen. I just don't agree with the sentiment the army is ruined and lacking flavour, they have just used a different selection of spices that an acquired pallete needs time to consider.
 

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Organised Chaos
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Entirely agree with Phoenix. It looks as though another one of my armies has just been nurffed in order to get me to use/buy the NEW power units. I am going to morn the loss of skirmish alot. it also makes me wounder wether this could be the way wood elves may go, as beastmen for a long time where meant to be the mirror of woodelves in the game in alot of ways.

Having looked at the book it seems as though alot of the new units were a rush job in both terms of idea and design chucked in the book with little care. It even looks as though there is 2 (3 if you want to include the gorgon) giant type modles in the book which baffles me as the design concept im sure was smaller things that actualy hide in the woods, hence the loss of dragon ogres, trolls etc. Explains why there are no new models for the bigger new units whislt previously we have seen the stegadon, hydra, and varghulf all make apearances for other armies.

The sculpt of the razorgor left alot to be desired for me aswell. Just seemed a bit of a lazy job putting an old spawn arm as a tail on a boar with greenstuff, but thats just my opinion on it. Im sure alot of people thought it looked fine/great, but it just doesnt sit right with me. People in my local store are already reffering to it as rabid Pumba.

The new minos on the other hand look awsome and thier new set of rules, although never a freind to frenzy, it doesnt seem to have done much harm for bloodknights or khorne knights if used right.
 

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I agree with Phoenix.

I read through the new Beastmen army book yesterday (my store had an advanced copy), and while I'm glad Beastmen didn't go power hungry in the way of Demons of Chaos or Dark Elves, I am a bit perturbed that one of the defining aspects of playing a Beastmen army (many skirmishing units) has gone away. It seems like now they will be played like a more traditional army (blocks like Empire, Elven armies, Orcs, etc).
It really makes me worry about the rumored Tomb King release for May. Are they gonna take away my chariot units? Are they gonna forgo Incantations for a more traditional magic system? I want my armies to be unique!

It does feel like some of the books are being rushed nowadays, especially when the new big scary monster thing that you know everyone will want to try doesn't have a model (Chaos Warshrine, Skaven Abomination, all three of the new Beastmen monsters). If Tomb Kings get the Sphinx that everyone on LO wants, will there be a model for it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I don't agree with the sentiment that the army has lost it's character. Skirmishing Core, Check. Chariot core, Check. Units appear on random board edges starting on turn 1, check. I think it's kept it's character while simplifying its rules, and also improved it's playability.

Previously, Beasts lost all the time. With the new units, new rules, and most importantly new inventory/statlines on our heroes, maybe we can win a few. Bout Dang Time.
 

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To be completely honest I am a bit disappointed by the release of Beastmen. The reasons for this are two fold.

1. In a truly competitive list I don't see many people taking 'herds' of beastmen gors, ungors, bestigors. They are only really useful now for housing a lord or character, but a chariot or ungor skirmishers (in the case of a shaman) work just as well.

2. The current trend of releases has left many players flabbergasted at the real lack of models being produced for it. Especially so in our case, as we now have so many missing models. One could make a cygor from a giant (as I did) or a felbeast jabberwock, but what about the myriad of special characters who have no real compatible models? Or the very fact that while we have a aptly jibed "Pumbagor" we have chariot for it without conversion.

I'm not against conversion, I actually enjoy it. However, it is a bit unrealistic for GW to expect every player to convert models just to use them in a game.

Besides those two things I can say I'm relatively happy with the release and summarily look forward to getting my own copy of the book.
 

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Well this is my take on my Beast of Chaos.

I love the addition of the new models and im so glad they took out the dragon ogre shit and worthless crap. I was so happy seeing some of the things i told Phoenix really come to the book and was excited for a STONE THROWER!!!!!!!!
However
I was a huge fan of massing worthless core and making them run around the board like screaming wimps with their crap LD, i had so much fun failing every fear check and always losing. I main the VC and they are such a none random army, for me the BOC where the madness to my VC tactics.

They didnt fix the main problems the BOC had, which is their serious lack of real Armor saves. No army can win when the shit tarpit units can mow down my best beast squads, its really embarrassing. I was able to move units into flank and rear charges and put numbers on my side to prevent the massacre that my beast always take in battle... So far it looks like our armor still sucks, LD got a boost which is nice, but losing skirmishing was a huge mistake. I mean were worse than most armies core for our pts and oh boy we can have hatred multiply rounds if we pass a LD, i think i speak for all BOC players there is never multiple rounds for Beast, we either win and run to the next unit, or get wiped out.
 

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I've had enough!
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The only real mistake GW made with this book is making Bestigors special. Competeing with too many good choices, now no-one will take them...however

BEASTMEN RULE

These are the Beasts that march to war, that destroy half the Empire and should be feared. Doombulls are finally where they should be and hit incredibly hard on the charge - we're talking upto 8 attacks with impact hits - then Bloodgreed pumps it up even more!

I wouldn't dismiss Gors so easily - when you consider what they get for 8 points vs an empire swordsman - +1T, +1M, Primal Fury, 2 hand weapons and Ambush...for a couple of points? Sounds about right.

Ungors are different though. I can only really see them in small units designed to redirect, bunker or ambush. A big unit with Spears is doable, but who wants to play defensive with these guys? By the time you spend points on a big block of Ungors, just use Gors. I don't even understand the praise for the Raiders - they will do the same thing but in units of 5 - short bows are kinda crap....but if they kill a Seeker, they've done their bit :p

I'm pumped by this release, and I'm excited that I can finally make Beastmen my number 1 army again with a full army book - but like all Chaos lists, I just can't fit everything in! :(
 

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So basically what I am reading is this is going to be an elite army now? kinda like HE where you tak the min core choices, take uber strong heros/lords and power elite units with border line cheesy rules?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I like this army list, alot. It'll get the job done.

The decision of which fighting Lord to take is brutal. Beastlord for the control and universal hatred? Doombull for sheer killy?

The rare choice is similarly brutal. Dual Ghorghons? Dual Cygors for shooting? Maybe a flying Rank breaking Jabberwock? Too hard to choose.

My tentative list is as follows:

Characters

Beastlord w/ + d3 attack claws, blackened armor (2+ ward save vs. flaming, 4+ for unit), talisman w/MR 2 and anti-good guy magic
Wargor w/Great Weapon, BSB w/banner of + 1 str
Bray Shaman w/scroll
Bray Shaman w/scroll

Core:

3 Tuskgor chariots

Special

4 Razorgors
4 Razorgors
20 Bestigor w/FC, banner of rust
5 Harpies w/scout

Rare:
Cygor
Ghorghon
 

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In response to Timk1111: The reason the ungor raiders are a hell of a lot better than regular ungors is that they can screen your big expensive units. Not only can they screen a larger area with just 5 of them than a block of 10+ ungors, they can also get out of the way a lot quicker. I don't see them killing much, but then again you're paying 30 points for a unit of 5; they can't be worse than warhounds. :p
 

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i am da Wahhchief
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30 points for a skirmish unit? dang! that doesnt count to 3 core minimum does it?
 

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So basically what I am reading is this is going to be an elite army now? kinda like HE where you tak the min core choices, take uber strong heros/lords and power elite units with border line cheesy rules?
any help?
 

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LO Zealot
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any help?
@2250 I would suppose all your special slots would be used up. The rares are way overpriced for what they do, but as long as you play them smart, you'll probably prefer them over the terrible core choices. The only core that count are chariots and maybe small skirmishing ungor units. The rank and file are pretty bad. There are no cheesy rules. Every unit is pretty underpowered for its price imo. Characters are more expensive and the magic got tons worse, unfortunately we still have no counter to psychology or shooting or magic. You'll probably have to have 2 scroll caddies standard in every list.
 
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