[GunTAG]

So, I'm looking at maybe including a big monster in my list as I grow past the 1000 point mark. Something nasty to mash things up good and fight other big nasties.

By the looks, our two big monsters are the Dragon Ogre Shaggoth and the Chaos Giant. Not really going for a dragon because I don't want to spend the points on the rider. Ditto on the Manticore.

Personally, I like the look of the Dragon ogre Shaggoth much more. TBH, I'll eventually get this model just to paint and stick on my desk, probably. But that's not the matter at hand.

Shaggoth:
Pros:
Great Weapon makes him Strength 8.
Scaly Skin and Light Armor gives him a 4+ Armour save
Immune to Lightning and can gain Frenzy
Cons:
More expensive

Giant:
Pros:
Interesting attack options
Can be marked for mild customization
Stubborn and Leadership 10
Cons:
No save whatsoever

Same:
Tough 5, 6 wounds
ITP, Large Target, Terror



So, I want to hear your experiences, opinions and suggestions. Oh, and why not? Which model do you think looks better?

 

[Pinkus]

I've been playing beastmen a lot lately and was running both together. I get back into Warriors and found they are slightly different and not in a good way.

The giant is immune to psychology. I don't know why this was needed, because its immune to most panic and causes terror itself and rerolls any panic checks at LD10 if it does get panicked. So that was a huge nerfing. Fleeing with giants catches people off guard. Now you can't. It also can't get an armor save and is more expensive. The shaggoth gets +1 str at the cost of -1 armor save, but he is cheaper than the BoC Shaggoth. I found that going from a 3+ to a 4+ made this guy die a lot faster than I thought he would.

But you really don't need to compare them to the BoC equivelent. The giant dies very easily and costs a ton. The shaggoth barely costs more than a giant, specially if you count in marks. That being said, I think the shaggoth is a better value. But it depends on what you need. If you are going for a slow army, then a giant getting stuck in combat for a few turns can be very beneficial to you. However, I think a faster army would want a shaggoth to combo charge with. Not much can take a chaos knight unit and a shaggoth at the same time.

And to be honest, out of all of our monsters I'd rather take the hell cannon.

 

[Fizyx]

The Shaggoth and the Giant are both very situational pieces that I would not use in any competitive setting. If I want to have a nice fun game, I'll bring the Shaggoth. If I want to have a hilarious time, I'll bring the Giant and try to mimic whatever roll I get from him. If I am playing a game that is part of a tournament or league, I will usually leave both at home and either bring the Hellcannon or another unit of knights.

Shaggoth:
Pros:
Great Weapon makes him Strength 8.
Yes, but S8 is only more effective than S6 if you are going after some serious toughness or very good armor save.
Scaly Skin and Light Armor gives him a 4+ Armour save
Without a ward save or regen, this is almost worthless. This is not a pro, especially for a large target.
Immune to Lightning and can gain Frenzy
Unless you are rolling with Kholek, I highly doubt you will ever get shot with Lightning.
Cons:
More expensive
"Very expensive" would be my phrase of choice.

Giant:
Pros:
Interesting attack options
Only interesting in a non-competitive setting.
Can be marked for mild customization
MoS is fantastic, by the way.
Stubborn and Leadership 10
Cons:
No save whatsoever
Low/no armor + large target = death to a shooty army.

Same:
Tough 5, 6 wounds
ITP, Large Target, Terror

To clarify my first paragraph, I would never bring the giant to a competitive game. As for the Shaggoth, I would probably bring him if I could maximize his strengths. This means I would use him if I knew my opponent would not be immune to psychology, would not have ASF, would not have heavy shooting at S4 w/ AP (so no guns) and definitely not a lot of D3/D6 wounding shooting. As you can see, this cuts things down my options quite a bit. Of course, if one of these elements was present I could probably work around it pretty well, but of two or more would, I would be seriously hurting.

Sometimes I like having a Shaggy:

-Against another WoC army. Seriously this guy was built to take our own army out.
-If I knew my opponent would be running an independent character outside a block of regular infantry/calvary.
-It was a larger game where a nice hunter/killer could be used effectively and have enough screening from opposing charges.

Anyways, I hope this helps. Honestly, the Shaggoth is a great model and very fun to paint. I do own one and love it and would never get rid of it, I just don't see it being very practical in a tournament setting. However, in a fun game my opponent knows there is a very good chance of Shaggy making an appearance, and its always a riot when he does show up.

 

[kyuzo]

I definitely think the giant has a place in a competitive setting. You need to use him to your advantage, and he can mess with your opponents mind greatly. Playing a giant is difficult and shouldnt be done by the point and move player, but he definitely has a place in the army.

 

[DravenHavok]

I have seen Giants played well, and by that I mean strategically and smart. Being chaos Giants, however, means that their attacks are unreliable and there's plenty of things in our army that have a luck factor to them, and truly being a game it's all part luck. The Shaggoth can hurt, I fight versus high elves who like star dragons waaay too much and the Shaggoth is a good opponent for dragons, hydras, Steggadons and other big nasties. If you want something that will make your opponent's face drop then I'd say take the shaggoth, they look pretty in the battlefield and can bring a world of hurt. And with that said, I agree with previous posters in that they are both situational, and a Hellcannon or extra unit of knights will do you better in the end. If you can learn how to judge distance the Hellcannon will pay it's points every time.

 

[Pinkus]

TBH the only bad thing about shaggies is their cost. On the battlefield they are very effective. If they cost more around the 225 mark I'd always bring one, but 285 is ridiculous considering that other monsters are a lot cheaper.

 

[russellt]

There is nothing a Shagoth does that 3 great weapon dragon ogers don't do better and cheaper. 5 str 8 attacks vs 9 str 7 attacks, 6 t5 wounds vs 12 t4 wounds. Same Armor save, the Ogers dont cause terror but can be screened by dogs.

 

[Pinkus]

Shaggoth is a lot more maneuverable. And terror is HUGE. And he does't take up special slots that are used for knights and chariots.

 

[Hashulaman]

If you want a laugh take the giant. His attacks are humorous even when they aren't effective.