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I play Crons myself and I base my strategy upon warriors, of course, and my friend plays orks and complains everytime that I try to attack him right after he asssaults me. He brings up this thing about if youre in assault, you cant get shot, but every1 else I talk to says thats only in base-to-base combat. Grr! can somebody clarify?
 

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In the 3rd ed. rules, you can't shoot at any unit that's engaged in melee. In the TAR, you can still shoot at any model that isn't in the melee, even if the unit is (that means any model that isn't allowed a rockthrow attack for that assult phase).
 

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to clarify, that means that base to base isn't what counts.

If the unit took part in the CC, (i.e. was engaged, either through base to base contact or by being within 2" of a friendly model that is in base to base), then they can't be fired upon.
 

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this is what will be the biggest loophole that I can see right now.

say you got a squad that charges a line of units, soemthing that a lot can be taken of..Wolf blood claws, or genestealers, ripper swarms, gaunts. well..even if a small unit is surrounded, a full attacking squad is going to be havin a few still not in base to base and outside of 2 inches.

what about when a template weapon..ie plasma canon is fired..sure..you can place the template as you see fit..but it must cover the same number of units..are the ones in closer than 2 inches counted.do they ignore the damage..what?
 

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If it's an Ordinance template, i would say sure if the ORIGINAL placement doesn't cover any models in CC. Deviation might well take it into the CC, and could possibly hit some of your own troops. (this isn't so unusual, as deviation fron a unit NOT in CC but very close to one could have the same effect.

As for blast templates, I'd say it could be moved around the unit so long as it isn't moved over ANY model already in CC.

This seems to be "in the spirit" of the rule to me, anyone else?
 

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I agree with templates that can scatter on their own (ie, Ord templates, but there could be others).

However, I think the owner of the unit being shot at should be able to move the blast marker (if it doesn't scatter) wherever he wants in his unit, including over units in close combat. This would make it more difficult to pick off specific units (like heavy weapons troops or sargents) and make it less desirable to fire blast weapons into units engaged in close combat, since the marker may now cover the shooting players units as well as the units being shot at.
 

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Originally posted by LordHat@Oct 17 2003, 14:09
If it's an Ordinance template, i would say sure if the ORIGINAL placement doesn't cover any models in CC. Deviation might well take it into the CC, and could possibly hit some of your own troops. (this isn't so unusual, as deviation fron a unit NOT in CC but very close to one could have the same effect.

As for blast templates, I'd say it could be moved around the unit so long as it isn't moved over ANY model already in CC.

This seems to be "in the spirit" of the rule to me, anyone else?
I agree.

There are rules for firing ordinance into CC, there aren't for Blast. Thus GW seems to think that blast weapons should not be striking models in CC. Simple enough to me.

There is a q&a statement that suggests that blast markers can always be moved by the player being targeted, even if the blast marker is moved onto enemy troops, (i.e. troops friendly to the source of the blast). I think that's bull personally. The original intent of the rule for moving blast markers was to keep attackers from targeting specific models in a unit, the Q&A I'm referring to is obviously changing the rule to move it away from that intent. I disapprove of GW's decision in this case, but I don't use blast markers much so I'll live.
 

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There are loopholes in the logic of the game, but its all for balence. Otherwise, the orks and tyranids would be able to fire into their own assaults. But no, you can never shoot anything that is in a squad that was assaulted or had assaulted something else.
 

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well if there is a friendly model in cc then you cant shoot into that combat even if the other 15 guys arent. remember combat doesnt just stop with that one guy fighting by himself it's meant to represent a wild melee with people running everywhere, city fight really captures this best.

if you still wanna fire into a combat which contains friendlies then after rolling to hit roll a d6 for each hit and on a 1-3 it hits on of yours and on a 4-6 it hits an enemy. this is just a house rule used by me and my mates.
 

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Originally posted by Carcaroth@Oct 19 2003, 14:56
well if there is a friendly model in cc then you cant shoot into that combat even if the other 15 guys arent. remember combat doesnt just stop with that one guy fighting by himself it's meant to represent a wild melee with people running everywhere, city fight really captures this best.

if you still wanna fire into a combat which contains friendlies then after rolling to hit roll a d6 for each hit and on a 1-3 it hits on of yours and on a 4-6 it hits an enemy. this is just a house rule used by me and my mates.
I think that is incorrect, according to the TAR.

The "swirling melee" only exists with the models in base to base contact with the enemy and then models within 2" of those combatants. Therefore, your models outside that gap are not represented as being a part of the melee, and they can be targetted. (that's also why they don't contribute attacks to the CC, after all).
 

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I always thought the rule about shooting into melee was it was NEVER EVER allowed, but stuff can scatter into it...
 

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Well i play IG/Necron and don't see why i can't shoot at any unit in combat. Realistically necrons are souless therefore would not care if they hit there own team and IG use their troops as a massive bulletshield. So i think you should be able to shoot into combat anyway. But that jus my opinion
 

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There are alot of scenarios where the 40k rules fall short. It's just not *that* complex of a game. The random hits by roll of the dice technique is a decent option though, if you really want to play that way.
 
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