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Why is everyone dissing shotguns there great as long as your not TAILORING... Vote now i perosnaly love them!
 

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Slave to the flesh
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Shotguns-cool:yes, good:no

I love shotguns, they are dam cool to have on scouts and they make them look rather thugish.

The reason noone takes them is because they are pants compared to the other weapons they can take, if you want shooting take bolters or sniper rifles, of you want assault take BP and CCW.

The harsh truth is that they just don't cut it when they are strength 3.
 

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Bolt Pistols + Close COmbat Weapons can do everything shotguns can and give you an extra attack in close combat as well. Its pretty much a no brainer especially since bolt pistols actually have an AP value.
 

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Well, this is sorta off-topic but you can equip IG veterans with shotguns. Because of the new rapid fire rules, this is only a good option if you want a couple for extra firepower in a CC veteran squad (not a good idea) or in a jungle fighters list where they are just as good as lasguns (moving=2 shots at 12") excpet that they allow you to charge and finish off a weakened enemy.
For Marines, no. As has already been stated before, there are much better weapon options though I would like to see str 4 shotguns with a bit of ap and maybe a couple special rules to make it worthwhile. :yes:

--smguy
 

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Yes, in comparison to a bolter you'd expect a shotgun to pack more "punch" even if they are range limited. This is something I think Games Workshop have needed to change for a long time - I doubt it will happen of course :(

It is tempting to make a beefy shotgun conversion though and count it as another weapon that would have similar characteristics...
 

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hmm

i think shotguns should be D3 shots and +1 to any cover save, then people would actuall use them to effect
 

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CaptShrike said:
i think shotguns should be D3 shots
I do like that part - it emphasises the random use of a shotgun that you might experience while shooting in real life.
 

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fluffy yes. Useful no. That 'bout sums it up. If they were to do anything with a shotgun I would increase the strength as you get closer, representing more of the spread hitting your target. i.e strength 3 at 12 inches strength 4 at like 8, strength 5 at 6 and so on. 'course thats to complex for most of the dimwits that seem to play this game oh well.
 

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Greenbeard The Ex-pirate said:
'course thats to complex for most of the dimwits that seem to play this game oh well.
Says the one who thinks Caboose would make a good senator! (I love Red vs. Blue by the way).

But yes Games Workshop tones down its rules for the...erm, not-so-gifted market?
 

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S3 + no AP = crap

AP 5 would make them worth taking. As shotguns stand now they have no place on the battlefield in the 41st millenium.
 

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skagrad said:
But yes Games Workshop tones down its rules for the...erm, not-so-gifted market?
Can you imagine playing the game where every weapon had several special ruules like that? The game would stretch from taking hours to taking days..
As for shotguns, apart from looking cool, they have no place in a marines hands.
 

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omegoku said:
As for shotguns, apart from looking cool, they have no place in a marines hands.
Hmm, to me Marines have always had that elite sense in an SAS kind of way and I can quite easily see an entry team using an automatic shotgun in tunnel fighting.
 

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they should make a special shotgun template at 90 degrees for 4 to 6 inches. a cone, but wider than the flamer template. also stubbier. huh............ FUNNYY!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry.........
 

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skagrad said:
Hmm, to me Marines have always had that elite sense in an SAS kind of way and I can quite easily see an entry team using an automatic shotgun in tunnel fighting.
really the melta gun would be the equivalent of an entry weapon. high pow/short range, perfect for blowing the door off a bunker. as for clearing a room, flamers would be the weapon of choice there.
 

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changing the rules would make it more viable....like D3 S4 AP6.
 

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just heard

DominionWeaponsGroup said:
i'd like to see str 5 ap 5 assault 1 range 6. they take one good blast and then pile-in
just talked to my local ordering source scouts with shotguns or any assault weapons for that matter are going to direct mail order only that means discontinued with a years time .:|
 

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skagrad said:
Hmm, to me Marines have always had that elite sense in an SAS kind of way and I can quite easily see an entry team using an automatic shotgun in tunnel fighting.
In real life, shotguns make poor combat weapons. They have a low ROF and poor accuracy beyond a short range. In previous posts people have said that a shotgun should have some sort of template similar to a flamer, etc. This would indicate use of bird shot or pellets, which are very weak and would cause even less damage.
 

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Lord Malachi said:
In real life, shotguns make poor combat weapons. They have a low ROF and poor accuracy beyond a short range. In previous posts people have said that a shotgun should have some sort of template similar to a flamer, etc. This would indicate use of bird shot or pellets, which are very weak and would cause even less damage.
It's worth noting, actually, that against modern military body armour, a shotgun is absolutely devastating up to a range of about 25 or thirty yards--while shooting large shot (not birdshot).

Point in fact, a piece of shot deforms far less on impact than almost any pistol round, making their penetration against things like Kevlar better, and, of course, there are a lot of them (around a dozen) and their spread is not nearly as great in actuality as we tend to think--or see demonstrated by games such as Counterstrike.

Imperial Guard armour is about the equivalent of modern military armour (it's probably actually a little better, but then it can be expected that shot and propellant are a little better, too, in the 41st thousandth century).

All told, I do think the Shotgun should be a combat effective weapon--that strength three and maybe AP five would both be appropriate. I don't really know what would need to be done to make these guns worthwhile for scouts--honestly, aside from a possible AP upgrade (which still really wouldn't make them worth taking) I see them as being represented fairly well in the game. The problem isn't that Shotguns are underpowered as much as that Swords and Pistols are overpowered (and that getting a pistol which fires enormous, self-propelled, explosive shells costs the same as a shotgun).

If being in 'close combat' weren't so valuable, if getting extra close combat attacks didn't come for free with a very comparable weapon, or if ranges were more variable (in increments other than 6" ones) there might be a niche for the shotgun to fill. As it is, I think it's represented fairly accurately and then shafted simply by the way the game works.
 
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