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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So guys. Explain to me exactly what makes you appealing.

I play Tau, Dark Eldar, 40k Daemons and LM in fantasy. I've recently gotten quite bored of LM. Two point and shoot play styles. Demolish my opponent with crazy amounts of power dice and strong casters, or march my dinosaurs they can't hurt to the other side of the table.

I really, really like skaven but I want to do a small competitive elitist *ehem easy to paint* army.

So tell me, what makes chaos good? What are 4 focuses of chaos gods? is it as it is in 40k? +A for khorne +I for slanny +T for Nurgle and ++ for Tzeentch?

How do your heroes work?

Are you competitive?

Themed armies? What are common themes that are still competitive.

Will keep my eyes out for your answers! Cheerio!

Glavas
 

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are you serious, whats not bloody cool about WOC. We have the hardest core infantry out, we can adapt almost any unit in our army to suit a situation by giving them a different mark, we have the hardest knights and our magic phase can be brutal.

The marks do work a little differently to CSM though, for one Mark of Khorne offers frenzy, plus one attack but makes them require a little more finesse in the way you use them as they will charge whatever is in front of them.
Mark of Nurgle grants a little more protection by making you harder to hit, the opponent is at -1ws in close combat and -1 to hit in shooting.
Mark of tzeentch gives you a ward save that stacks with other ward saves and plus one to cast.
and slannesh gives you all the pros of immune to psychology minus the draw back of being unable to flee when needed.
By mixing these marks effectively you can tackle any other force.

We arent top tier competitive apparently because you can pick up the book and automatically win, itll take some time to figure out what your units can take on, where to commit them and where to blast away with magic.If you lose a combat you arent usually going to have the static combat res to hold out against a cheap horde unit.

Basically WOC is the hardest hitting army in close combat you can get, but itll cost you a shit ton of points for all the fightiness. haha my 2250 army is 80 models and 20 of thats just hounds.

hope i could help.
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just saw you were form OZ too, im from perth, nice work.:handshake:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
are you serious, whats not bloody cool about WOC. We have the hardest core infantry out, we can adapt almost any unit in our army to suit a situation by giving them a different mark, we have the hardest knights and our magic phase can be brutal.

The marks do work a little differently to CSM though, for one Mark of Khorne offers frenzy, plus one attack but makes them require a little more finesse in the way you use them as they will charge whatever is in front of them.
Mark of Nurgle grants a little more protection by making you harder to hit, the opponent is at -1ws in close combat and -1 to hit in shooting.
Mark of tzeentch gives you a ward save that stacks with other ward saves and plus one to cast.
and slannesh gives you all the pros of immune to psychology minus the draw back of being unable to flee when needed.
By mixing these marks effectively you can tackle any other force.

We arent top tier competitive apparently because you can pick up the book and automatically win, itll take some time to figure out what your units can take on, where to commit them and where to blast away with magic.If you lose a combat you arent usually going to have the static combat res to hold out against a cheap horde unit.

Basically WOC is the hardest hitting army in close combat you can get, but itll cost you a shit ton of points for all the fightiness. haha my 2250 army is 80 models and 20 of thats just hounds.

hope i could help.
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just saw you were form oz too, im form perth, nice work.:handshake:
Haha! :handshake:

Hard hitting you are. But i'm a guy who plays themed lists too so there will be no mixing marks. Either everything has the same marks or nothing has any marks.

You're not THE hardest hitting army :p A sarus for 11 points has 2 attacks, even with spears!

But they're getting boring and don't fit in the "elitist category" I've written up a list. I'd love for you to take a look at it for me. I dislike the marauders. They don't appeal to me at all. So i'll see how I go with just warriors.

Feel free to take a check at the list in 10 minutes or so :p

Glavas
 

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A legend in my own mind.
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Yea but the Chaos Warrior has higher I higher WS and a better armor save. They are as good in combat as temple guard only no special rules and yes WoC can take halberds and great weapons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yea but the Chaos Warrior has higher I higher WS and a better armor save. They are as good in combat as temple guard only no special rules and yes WoC can take halberds and great weapons.
Not quite as good as templeguard :p You're not stubborn on LD8 with cold blooded.

Great weapons seem a waste. Losing that awesome I.

Granted, I'm not saying chaos warriors aren't as good as saurus in CC. point for point, they're the same really. 4 points more expensive and have a few advantages and disadvantages.

But this isn't about who's better, I'm converting to YOUR side :p

Glavas
 

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Also, unlike in 40k, it's rare (in lore) to see an army devoted to a single god. The gods even bestowed their power upon one individual, Archaon.

One of my friends plays LM and I do agree that templeguard are good, but expensive for a slow moving unit that rarely sees combat in larger games. For my friend they've mostly been a protection unit for his Slann. What WoC can do to counter this however, is make a fast army and just avoid the TG all together :D

With marauder horsemen for core, knights and D-Ogres for special, a lord on juggernaut and maybe a hero on disk for your characters, and hell maybe even a shaggoth for rare, you can definitely out flank most other armies (except for wood elves and brets ಠ_ಠ).

I personally run more of a mixed army. Usually a lord on juggernaut in a unit of 5 nurgle knights with banner of rage and a standard, just in case. If I have the points I'll also put a champion in there in case I want my lord to damage the unit rather than being forced to challenge and waste wounds on a champion ;_;. For core I run a big unit (18-20 ) of warriors with 2 units of 15-20 marauders for flank guards. Hounds are necessary for screening your frenzied units or you'll soon get baited into a unit of skinks or something lol. Also NEVER put khorne on a chariot, I found that out the hard way. My opponent killed the hound screen protecting it, and next turn I was forced to charge a unit which of course fled and led me DIRECTLY into a forest, almost killing my chariot, but rendering it essentially useless.

Hope I've helped somewhat and remember to try and balance your WoC for friendly games, as we can get very competitive army comps very easily :)
 

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Champion of Chaos
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Yeah, the humans that worship the chaos gods, worship them all, maybe one more than the others, but they still worship them all.

The theme for my army is, "I'm going to try my hardest to table you" and I use my Master-blaster to do it.

Anyways, saurus are WS3 and as slow as warriors with a weaker armor save. Meaning we both will always get charged, but the warriors will win more often, by taking less wounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yeah, the humans that worship the chaos gods, worship them all, maybe one more than the others, but they still worship them all.

The theme for my army is, "I'm going to try my hardest to table you" and I use my Master-blaster to do it.

Anyways, saurus are WS3 and as slow as warriors with a weaker armor save. Meaning we both will always get charged, but the warriors will win more often, by taking less wounds.
I'd debate that personally and saw that Saurus will win due to causing more wounds. When saurus get charged, they've got 21 attacks back before casualties :p

Do warriors really get charged that often? I thought the idea was to bait them and then charge with the warriors :(

Is it worth giving warriors great weapons or extra HW?

Glavas
 

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Do I get to put MoN on my Warriors? Now you've got the initiative of a refrigerator and a WS2
versus my WS5. Ouch, Mr. Saurus!

Ouch.


... they are WS3 aren't they? If not, I am retarded and withdraw the previous barb. :soldier:

You'd think I'd know this without a doubt. One of my regular opponents is a Lizard. :beer:

I realize you're talking base stats here, I'm just being a poo-disturber. My Warriors rarely leave home without their halberds, but that's just me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Do I get to put MoN on my Warriors? Now you've got the initiative of a refrigerator and a WS2
versus my WS5. Ouch, Mr. Saurus!

Ouch.


... they are WS3 aren't they? If not, I am retarded and withdraw the previous barb. :soldier:

You'd think I'd know this without a doubt. One of my regular opponents is a Lizard. :beer:

I realize you're talking base stats here, I'm just being a poo-disturber. My Warriors rarely leave home without their halberds, but that's just me.
No you don't :p

Guys, is an all troll army viable? something along the lines of

Throgg

4 x 4 trolls

3 x 10 hounds

3 x 3 dragon ogres /w great weapons

Dragon shaggoth

Would that be viable? I've seen trolls play once. It wasn't great because I killed the WoC general with a hail of magic/shooting in th second turn and all they did is fail stupidity.

Glavas
 

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I played a game with a troll type army just for fun and it was decent. Ran a group of 6 trolls with a chaos lord w/ favor of the gods, another group of 3 with throgg, and another group of 3. Backed it up with some dogres and 1 khorne ogre group/hounds, and 2 warshrines to beef my main troll unit. The lord/trolls got stubborn 4+ ward(+3 MoT on my lord) with +1 leadership making them stubborn10 and the trolls got an additional +1T from their special rule and this unit could not be killed. Also had the collar on my lord for the MR2.

would I use this normally? no
 

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Champion of Chaos
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Not worth giving them GWs, because one of our advantages is our initiative. Halberds work very nicely though.

Just for fun:
6 wide warriors with shield charge saurus. They average 3 wounds. Leaving you 9 models left to attack, that's 19 attacks. Roughly 1.5 wounds back after armor. So you being cheaper lets you have 1 more rank maybe. Its a push. However, every round after that we keep out killing you, you'll lose that rank sooner or later and start losing combat.

Heaven forbid we throw khorne/nurgle troops at you. Where warriors shine more is from things like minotaurs to the front. Khorne with GWs, 16 attacks. We lose 4 models, while saurus will lose roughly 8 models. Saurus probably do better against humans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not worth giving them GWs, because one of our advantages is our initiative. Halberds work very nicely though.

Just for fun:
6 wide warriors with shield charge saurus. They average 3 wounds. Leaving you 9 models left to attack, that's 19 attacks. Roughly 1.5 wounds back after armor. So you being cheaper lets you have 1 more rank maybe. Its a push. However, every round after that we keep out killing you, you'll lose that rank sooner or later and start losing combat.

Heaven forbid we throw khorne/nurgle troops at you. Where warriors shine more is from things like minotaurs to the front. Khorne with GWs, 16 attacks. We lose 4 models, while saurus will lose roughly 8 models. Saurus probably do better against humans.
Well ultimately, If we need something to anvil as hard as warriors, you really do need TG. Then you're paying the same.

Saurus however are anvils in the sense that they are killy. Hard against high T or good saves.

What about extra hand weapons on warriors? I figured GW were a no go. Even on chosen?

Glavas
 

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i had a unit of khorne warriors with extra hand weapons, 20 strength 4 attacks is kinda overkill on most stuff, it decimates any unit facing it. i just dont really use infantry any more, by far the most attractive aspect of our army is its knights, they are iconic. Nurgle knights with banner of wrath are super killy, only thing harder might be blood knights.
 

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I played in a tournament recently with a unit of 18 chosen as my anvil. They were nurgle with banner of rage and a BSB in the unit, 6 wide, and additional hand weapons. I had a champion too for favour of the gods, so in total:

21 strength 4 attacks
6 strength 5 attacks

So that's 27 attacks from a 6-wide frontage. I also had the +1 save from EotG at the time, so I got charged by a unit of about 18 slaanesh daemons, saved all wounds, and got my 27 attacks back. Needless to say they obliterated about half the unit, and all but 1 from the rest of them crumbling due to the combat res from all those wounds.

Great weapons have also served me well in a unit of chosen. The only thing is you have to know how to use them properly, and are generally not worth the pts compared to halberds. However if you have the points, it can be fun to get 19 attacks from a 6-wide unit of chosen with strength 6 and MoK/Banner of Rage on the charge :) They obliterate any unit you throw them at.
 

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Yeah, khorne is a lot more manageable on foot troops who have low movement.

The problem with GWs over halberds is that anything you need str 6 to kill instead of str5 more often than not will be able to kill T4 4+ armor save guys first.

Also, I don't like foot solders neither. Knights are way too good, definitely #2 behind blood knights and they can make a great argument for #1 if they wanted to. And horsemen are incredible good and cheap, so they complement the knights very nicely.
 

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I've recently gotten quite bored of LM. Two point and shoot play styles. Demolish my opponent with crazy amounts of power dice and strong casters, or march my dinosaurs they can't hurt to the other side of the table.

Glavas
I would advise not picking up WoC as a second army as I suspect you will soon grow just as bored with them as you are with your lizardmen. You cite using "two point and shoot play styles." The LM book and the WoC book are, in my opinion, the two most well-balanced books out there. By well-balanced, I mean that they are able to take a little cavalry, a little infantry, a little magic, and a monster or two and be competitive at a standard tournament points level (which, in my area, is also the standard size for friendly games.) You don't need to cheese out with either army list to be strong.

If you've found yourself often only using two playstyles with your lizardmen, I'm not sure what attraction WoC will have for you with a smaller variety of unit types (especially if you don't like marauders.) Our magic is just as strong as LM, if not stronger in some aspects, and our ability to terror-bomb and field monsters is just as good, and in some cases cheaper, than LM. We don't have any non-character flyers for march-blocking and precious little shooting, something LM have plenty of access to. If you aren't happy using the several different playstyles that LM offer you, and think WoC will bore you to death.
 
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