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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I play Space Marines. Against Sisters, Orks and IG I do just fine. But I always get creamed by the Tyranids. What can I do?

My opponent usually has a mob of termagants, 2-3 warriors, a Carnifex, a Tyrant guarded by 3 Guards, and another squad of small things like stealers or Hormaguants.

I have no problem with the little guys, but the Tyrand and 'fex always frustrate me. I just keep shooting lascannons at them and they just won't die! Last time I tried something different - I tried assaulting his HQ w/ a full 10 man assault squad w/ vet sarge and powfist, led by a chaplain - I didn't do a single wound on the tyrant and only killed one guard.

If I gun down the little guys, then I'm not shooting at the big guys. And if I just shoot at the big guys then the little guys will swarm me.

I will be playing 400pt, 800pt and 1200pt games vs 'Nids very soon.

Any advice is appreciated.
 

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Slave to the flesh
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Try a whirlwind, against nids its lethal, make a shooty list to combat them, they are nearly always better than you in CC.

Keep HQ's cheap, terminators are pretty good at holding up units, they may work against the tyrant and guard.
 

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Small squads spread out as far as possible making the most out of the cheap heavy weapons that the squads get and maybe some razorbacks with the heavy bolter. Dreads are good for shooting the heck out of then tieing up the little critters and use the landspeeders assault cannons rock. a whirlwind is a bit of a risk as he dosen't use a swarm army. Also don't be afraid to shoot the big ones first since your army will be so spread out he cant swarm and stop you from shooting.
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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I actually prefer to take nigh full sized squad of marines. For one the facts are a bolter is not much less effective against swarm nids than most of the heavy/special weapons are(IE: still wounds on 3's and ignroes saves). But more importantly in a protracted battle(3-4 turns of combat) a marine squad actually generally beats out a squad of gaunts, even hormies. Gott survive the charge, but its all down hill from there.

As for the big nasties you may want some heavier firepower and a Librarian with a force weapon and FC. Don't forget to taken out genestealers at range. This can be acheived easily with a few HB's...though even normal bolters will work.
 

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The last thing you want against nids are huge squads because then once they get to you they almost leap from squad to squad! Small flexable yet tactical squads!!!
 

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wow the monstrous creature retinue? what a pain to kill.....okay so a tyrant is 3-4 wounds (I don't have my codex on me) and the tyrand guard has 2 each.....assuming the oppenent takes 3 thats 9.
9 plus carnifex is about 13-14 monstrous creature wounds depending on the biomorphs......

plasma cannons are the most ideal weapons for armor death on nids....in a pinch you can still shoot at swarms and deal a good bunch of damage. I tend to field 4 on a devi squad....the get hot rule will not kill you that much since you have 1/6 chance of getting it....and then you still get your save.....your opinion on if plasma cannons are worth the death but considering what you';re shooting at it evens out.....aka if the plasma cannon kills 3 genestealers you're a happy camper. having 4 can take down entire swarms still. And they still hurt monstrous creatures...possible 3-4 wounds each round of shooting. I would give them some body guard marines if the opponent has shooty fexes or tyrant.

to deal with swarms just rely on the bolters.....if the termagaunts are that much trouble do the drop pod method....if you have faith in them. Drop a good 5-10 (I forget how much a pod can hold...codex is upstairs and I'm lazy) man squad of bolter marines and depending on the 12 inch double tap range....which should be fine for drop podding thats double the bolter shots. You may lose the squad in a bad situation however but it kills genestealers quite easily.

another option is landspeeders assault cannon configs....you're shooting out 7 shots of AP4 strength 5-6 with 4 shots rending....thats seven dead bugs each turn....and they do work once in a while against heavy creatures. I have three of them and the majority of the swarms never make it to the my marines.

flamer assault squads are good for hordes still....they move faster than most nids too if you plan on assaulting while you're at it(only viable against the gaunt types.)

my two cents on fighting nids so much at my GW
 

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Ok u need 1 assault unit to hold off or kill off the fastest moving buggers so that the rest of ur army can shoot for another turn or two. As Deek said u might want to consider a librarian-led assault squad to counter flying tyrants or such.
The rest of ur army should be shooty (ur not going to try to CC with Nids eh?). LSTs are very good for horde-control, remember to shoot the genestealers first with them and u'll do fine. Tac squads should either have las/plas to shoot MCs or HBs to shoot hordes. If the MC problem is serious then take a Predator with lascans - Nids dont have too much AT and if u shoot his gun fexes with 4-5 lascans per turn they'll go down fast.
 

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Sounds like you just need to increase your AP2 loadout. Try and increase your number of Lascannons, take a Lascannoned up Predator or Devastator squad. Give everything plasma where you can, hopefully the rain of AP2 should hurt them.

In the old days a Vindicator used to own Tyrant Guard, now longer due to Synapse :(.

I'd also recommend you give all your Sergeants Powerfists. Not being IC they can't be singled out and so can keep swinging away till everyone else is dead. Being caught up with a couple of Powerfist wielders should really hurt them (hurray for the nid invulnerable save!).
 

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i have three/four guns for you, of which you cannot get enough of against nids.

heavy bolter, assault cannons and plasma guns/pitols i play nids alot and i have not lost for a very long time. i play most tournements at WHW and do well so i play at a good standard.

alot of people will say this is beardy but as you cant put a nid army that isnt incredably beardy (very, very good at what it does) i find this hard to take, like you i to was once getting my backside chewed by those infernal nids.

nids are great and i have always loved facing them but most guns they have are strength 10 or ap3 and they are the best close combat army in the game by some way IMO!!!

the reason i use these weapons are because:

a) the HB & AC's come on landspeeder tornado's (something that can match them for speed)
b) other than AC's you can have loads of them very very cheaply.
c)the HB & AC's are multiple shot quite high strength and low enough AP.

this might sound nasty but i rub my hands togethrer when people by lots of extended carapase and they still dont get saves.

i use the plasma to take down the big stuff, usally in an assualt squad with a character because of there speed and theres a chance to get 4 plasma pistols in that squad.
but always get rid of the fast stuff first which is easy enough to do with these guns.

last but not least i deploy way back into my deployment zone so that even if i lose first turn there not on me and i should still get a good round of shooting in on them hope fully to by which time there shouldnt be much small stuff left.

good luck i hope this isnt to strong for you, like i said i got sick of loseing to them too!!!



purge the alien scum!!!
 

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If possible, try to get an LRC on the table too. You can use it to transport your Librarian up the field, and all those stormbolters, TL AC and melta will help take down any opposition until you reach the enemy HQ. Plus you can assault right out with the LRC and your Librarian will be able to use his force weapon effectively. My strategy with this would be, if you have the first turn, deploy the LRC and the Librarian + his squad as close to the nid HQ as possible. Board on the first turn and zoom your way towards the HQ, firing at anything in the way. Plus you can tank charge them too which will help for squads that just won't die and get out of your way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Great suggestions!

These are all great suggestions! A couple of questions though - someone said take a Librarian with a Force Weapon and an FC - what is an FC?

Also, I'd like to take a Librarian with a jump pack to help get him where he needs to be, but since he's an IC, even if I surround him with an assault squad he can still get picked out whenever he's in base-to-base with something, right? But if I give him a familiar he gets I 6 and gets to go first, or at least simultaneously. So I could jump in, do my attacks first, and maybe kill enough guards that the rest of the assault squad survives for another round.

A Codicier w/ Jmp Pack and Familiar costs 130pts - thats 3/4 Initiative 6 attacks that have the potential to instakill. If I add Termi Honors that's another attack. This is sounding pretty good!

So I could tie up either the 'fex or the Tyrant and 3 guards with the librarian assault unit - and focus plasma cannons on the one that's not being assaulted.

Hmm, I'm going to have to ponder this some more. I'm thinking about taking on 'nids in CC again and that's just crazy...

And the assault squad /librarian combo eats up a lot of points...

Thanks for all the helpful advice guys!
 

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A strategy that worked for me when I played my friend's tyranids army. I deployed all my infantry squads in my deployment zone, each had its own APC on standby right next to them. Meanwhile my bikes and land speeders sat on my flanks to defend my flanks until further orders. I had my Terminator chappy ready to teleport in, my venerable dread was loaded on a drop pod as well as two assult squads that were ready to mop up any remeaining nids after what i did. When my friend began to cross the table I opened fire with my entire army. Thats 2,500 points worth of Space marines shooting. Thankfully it was a great round of shooting and i managed to thin out his ranks a little. Since nids move fast I decided to put my plan into action. The inf squads got the order to mount up into their APCs. The majority of the nids were withing range of my tanks if they went full throttle. My transports drivers put the pedal to the metal, with the land raider at the tip of my spearhead, and tank shocked the incomming nid horde. This too killed a bunch of them. Anything that could break my tanks open was targeted by ever heavy weapon i had. The tank shock really messed up his synapse and then I ordered my bikes and speeders to execute a pincer attack on both flanks of the nids that were left over from the tank shock. When I began to land my reserve forces behind his army, the crossfire made the game pretty much over.
Basically when fighting nids you want maximum firepower for maximum destruction. Dont let them get in close with you or its not going to be pretty. Of couse the tech priests of my chapter dont like this tactic. They still finding nid arms and guts in the undercarriage of the company rhinos.
 

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zgeist said:
These are all great suggestions! A couple of questions though - someone said take a Librarian with a Force Weapon and an FC - what is an FC?
Probably Furious Charge. However this means you've got to take a command squad, and so you can't take other transport modes (jetpack etc). However S5 I7 is always nice when you've got a force weapon...

I'd broadly warn you though not to try the hand to hand route to much. The meat of your phase against Tyranids should be shooting. Pack your heavy weapons and try and hurt them before you get into hand to hand. Assault squads etc should be of secondary importance to your devastators squads.
 

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Beating tyranids is just like the game: rock/paper/scissors.
Tyranids are basicly paper, overwhelming there opponents with massive assault.
SM are basicly rock, steady. Paper will win against rock, unless you play SM just like a scissor.
So winning against Tyranids would be breaking there lines. You can't win with a massive counter assault against there whole army. So breaking the army into parts would be the best, shooting and overrunning the little parts.

In return, when a SM player uses his army just like a scissor, the tyranid army must concentrating his army and attacking the SM army at 1 point would be the best counter attack, preventing the tyranid army to break apart (just one of the countless possibilities ofcouse)
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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Probably Furious Charge. However this means you've got to take a command squad, and so you can't take other transport modes (jetpack etc). However S5 I7 is always nice when you've got a force weapon...

I'd broadly warn you though not to try the hand to hand route to much. The meat of your phase against Tyranids should be shooting. Pack your heavy weapons and try and hurt them before you get into hand to hand. Assault squads etc should be of secondary importance to your devastators squads.
You have good points, but the reason i mentioned the Lib with FC is because i'm not one to take chars without a retinue unless its a small game. Personally My Librarian with his command squad of 4 termies have a rather high MC kill count on the bottom of their bases and thats because their are few Tyranids out their who can take 6 S5, I7,re-roll to hit and wound attacks. And if they do...well the 9 PF attacks that come after should do the trick. The squad is a great MC killer, even against carnifexes. the key is to get the charge of course. Which is best served via a LRC or by deepstriking close to a MC thats already in combat with something so it can't come after you.

Alternatively you can attach the Lib(withotu FC i'm afraid) to a squad of assault termies with TH+SH. These guys are great for taking hits and dishing pain against MC's.

I do agree though that there are few marine units you should actually take against nids in CC, but it should be known that there are a few.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sabe said:
You have good points, but the reason i mentioned the Lib with FC is because i'm not one to take chars without a retinue unless its a small game. Personally My Librarian with his command squad of 4 termies have a rather high MC kill count on the bottom of their bases and thats because their are few Tyranids out their who can take 6 S5, I7,re-roll to hit and wound attacks. And if they do...well the 9 PF attacks that come after should do the trick. The squad is a great MC killer, even against carnifexes. the key is to get the charge of course. Which is best served via a LRC or by deepstriking close to a MC thats already in combat with something so it can't come after you.
That's interesting what you say about the Lib /Termi /LRC combo. I have tried using Termies vs nids but they are just way too slow. Even with an LRC. They jump out of the LRC and just stand there the first turn (bolters don't do much against a Tyrant and guard) - it's only 5 termies. Then they take hits from the Tyrants weapon and the Fex's - killing a couple leaving only about 3, then the 'Nids charge - usually a Tyrant and three guards and it's over. If I'm lucky I get one swipe with a PF.

I'm not saying it can't work - just that it doesn't for me. And deepstrike totally sucks - I always end up scattering and there's so much terrain that inevitably some models die - which is a lot of points to waste.

I've thought of giving an assault squad or a bike squad a Teleport homer - anyone try that?

Also, I'm mostly trying to come up with an 800 pt list and then a 1200pt list - so LRCs and Terminators are a bit expensive for that.
 

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zgeist said:
I've thought of giving an assault squad or a bike squad a Teleport homer - anyone try that?
yeah ive tried it and continue to its great fun to no they are coming down in one piece.

if you are playing to win like in a tornament or against some one you keep getting pasted by then i would advise not deep striking termies as you have said are to expensive to be open to assult especially from a big nasty group of genesteelers and with there speed its hard to deep strike were they cant reach you espeicaly when you could have had twelve inches movement with them already.

even assault termies cant cope with them. to many chances to rend and to high initative the they dont stand a chance. you can see why the ultramarines 1st company went down.

i make my termies shoot there a great way to get assault cannons moving and firing.

again as you've said termies are far to expensive to have in an army of anything less than 1500 points, of course as always IMO
 

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I have tried the Librarian option, and it was worth it just to see the look on my mates face when I told him his ubercarnifexofdeath had died to one wound from my Librarian. Sweet!

However, massed gunfire is the way to go. A vindicator is still useful for making him think twice about going near it, and heavy bolters will tear swarms apart. Give your sergeants powerfists, and melta/plasma weapons for the big gribblies.

If you are playing recon, consider giving p and saving your troops a lot of pain and anguish...
(j/k)

RoV
 
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