[R.A.P.T.O.R]

alright this is my 2083 pt space wolves list that i made, i think i should buy more rhinos so i can transport my infantry...only got 2 for my bloodclaws...what do u think

This is just a go-around army u know? against all races.

HQ-
wolf lord- frost axe, plasma pistol, belt of russ, wolf tooth necklace, wolf pelt, frag grenades

wolf venerable dread- assault cannon, close combat arm w/built in flamer, smoke launcher, extra armour

rune priest- frost blade, storm shield, stormcaller, wolf tooth necklace
(goes with blood claws, 9-pack)

TROOPs-
bloodclaws(9)- 7 w/bp+ccw, 2 w/bp+pf
-rhino-builtin storm bolter, smoke launchers, extra armour

bloodclaws(10)-8 w/bp+ccw, 2 w/bp+pf
-rhino-builtin storm bolter, smoke launchers, extra armour

grey hunters(10)- 7 w/bolters+ccw, 2 w/bolter+pf, 1 w/meltagun

grey hunters(10)- 7 w/bolters+ccw, 1 w/bolter+pf, 1 w/power weapon, 1w/plasmagun

grey hunters(10)- 7 w/bolters+ccw, 2 w/bolter+pf, 1w/meltagun

Heavey Support-
Predator annihalator- twin lascannon turrent, HB side-sponsors
Predator annihalator- twin lascannon turrent, lascannon side-sponsors

Fast Attack-
Land Speeder Tornado (3)- assault cannon+hb

Elites-
(no ven, already have one)dread- twin linked lascannon, missle launcher, smoke launcher

i dunno how much the bikes costs..too lazy to look at codex, but i have 5 that i dont put in my army, 5 bikers-wgbl w/pw, 1 w/ meltagun, 1 w/pf

 

[Manu_Forti]

pretty good list.
dont know if you should have 3 HQ choices though?

 

[R.A.P.T.O.R]

what do u mean, isnt it 1 hq for every 750 points? maybe ill add more grey hunters then .

 

[bicycle repairman]

Nice HQ's and troop choices

Change the preds to destructors with lascannon sponsons, cheaper and just as effective

If you have three tornadoes put them in separate squadrons, it allows more flexibility and the enemy cant destroy them all with one unit

 

[megaginge]

u doo need 3 hqs for 1500+

 

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

Ditch the PP on the HQ.

Your rune preists needs a chooser of the slain, (+1 attack)

Elites-
(no ven, already have one)dread- twin linked lascannon, missle launcher, smoke launcher

Trade this for scouts, who strike behind enemy lines. Give them a GW leader with powerfist, 1 melta gun. 7 man in total, looks like you have 20 ish points left over anyway, so you got plently to send on a great scout squad.

 

[Araith]

Scouts would be good, but this works too. It's nott that Scouts are really vital in this list. If you do take the scouts I'd save an extra 10 pts on them and give one of your GH packs a drop pod.


Tai'shar

 

[R.A.P.T.O.R]

Ditch the PP on the HQ.

why would i ditch the plasma pistol? And if I do, what shall I give him? a bolt pistol?

 

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

Yes. Dont equip charactors with PPs, generally you want him in assault every turn.

 

[Araith]

Well, PPs are a matter of debate and preference. Are you prepared to risk a very expensive character for a BS5 (almost guarantee hit) S7 AP2 pistol? Yes it is a small chance, but you never know. And most of the time you can spend those 10 pts elsewhere. In the end it's a matter of preference. Risk and pts shortage on the one hand, a very effective shot on the other.


Tai'shar

 

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

Reasons for not selecting a Plasma pistol:

A) You will overheat once per game, if shot in every turn of the game.

B) Everyturn that your not shooting, your wasting the potential of the plasma pistol, IE locked in assault

C) With the points on the plasma pistol, you could have armed another marine with a powerweapon, helping you win assault faster against opponents with armour saves, which is at least 80% of the opponents you will see in CC, at the very least, the inverable save will be less then the armour save, if they even have an armour save.

D) For 5 more points, you could have given a model a powerfist, and weapon of devine power, which will help you in almost every CC situation.

So you can see how a bolt pistol is in fact a better choice.

But allow me to guess: Youve bought some GW built metal model and dont want to, or dont understand how to cut the plasma pistol off. As it turns out, that model is made of pot metal, and wont infact survive machine gun fire, or laspistols, infact, that armoured model wont even survive a chain sword attack. So get out there, and use a pair of sisors, or wire cutters, and then trim the remains with a razor blade.

 

[R.A.P.T.O.R]

actually, i did cut the plasma pistol off the metal model I bought (that Im using as my wolf lord) I gave him a combi-plasma, but later switched it back to PP because all my friends were telling me how great PP is in battle and its good......so I guess Ill have to cut it off again and give him a bolt pistol huh? so at last, your saying a bolt pistol is the best for a wolf lord? with a frost axe?

 

[Araith]

Sure, PP have their uses. But a Wolf Lord isn't the best place. On units like fire support GH they're good. A unit of 6 in a Razorback loaded with a plasmagun, 2 PP and bolters.


Tai'shar

 

[Ikterus]

And dont forget scouts coming from behind.

2 PPs and a meltaguns works like a charm with those boys

 

[Grey]

HQ-
wolf lord- frost axe, plasma pistol, belt of russ, wolf tooth necklace, wolf pelt, frag grenades

wolf venerable dread- assault cannon, close combat arm w/built in flamer, smoke launcher, extra armour

The ven dread I think would be helped with a drop pod.

rune priest- frost blade, storm shield, stormcaller, wolf tooth necklace
(goes with blood claws, 9-pack)

Since you're losing an attack due to taking a storm shield, consider throwing a chooser of the slain on here maybe?

TROOPs-
bloodclaws(9)- 7 w/bp+ccw, 2 w/bp+pf
-rhino-builtin storm bolter, smoke launchers, extra armour

bloodclaws(10)-8 w/bp+ccw, 2 w/bp+pf
-rhino-builtin storm bolter, smoke launchers, extra armour

grey hunters(10)- 7 w/bolters+ccw, 2 w/bolter+pf, 1 w/meltagun

All fine, except since the rest of the grey hunters have 24" guns and they have no transport, drop the melta gun for a plasma gun.

grey hunters(10)- 7 w/bolters+ccw, 1 w/bolter+pf, 1 w/power weapon, 1w/plasmagun

grey hunters(10)- 7 w/bolters+ccw, 2 w/bolter+pf, 1w/meltagun

Honestly I'd dump at least one squad of GHs and spend the points on more blood claws (Less points)

Heavey Support-
Predator annihalator- twin lascannon turrent, HB side-sponsors
Predator annihalator- twin lascannon turrent, lascannon side-sponsors

Fine, but I'd throw the autocannon on the first predator so it all has one role in the army(killing hordes)

Fast Attack-
Land Speeder Tornado (3)- assault cannon+hb

Good. If you haven't already, make them into 2 FA choices so that they have greater flexibility.

Elites-
(no ven, already have one)dread- twin linked lascannon, missle launcher, smoke launcher

Shrug. I think you'd be better off spending the points on scouts to come from behind. Or better yet, droping a squad of grey hunters to buy some scouts and the Dreadnought so that you can really go to town on the enemy tanks.

i dunno how much the bikes costs..too lazy to look at codex, but i have 5 that i dont put in my army, 5 bikers-wgbl w/pw, 1 w/ meltagun, 1 w/pf

Blood claw bikes are an interesting choice. I like them myself, especially when led by an IC and/or WG champ on bikes.

 

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

GH are the best infantry in the space marine range, blood claws are no match for GHs properly used.

Blood claws are a shock troops, they lack the sustained and dominating attack power of the GHs. This is mostly because they have BS 3, which you cant count on to strike with melta weapons. GHS are also only 3 points more expensive then Blood claws, with far superior CC abilities against opponents with WS 3. (most armies)

As such, i wouldnt leave home without at least 2 GH squads, infact, i wouldnt field more then one Blood claws pack, unless your going for massed infantry.

 

[R.A.P.T.O.R]

alright i think ill stick with my 3 gH squads, maybe Ill buy 2 more rhinos for them, and ill take out the elite dread for a scouts squad w/ wolf guard leader pf+bp. bp+frost axe for my lord

 

[Grey]

GH are the best infantry in the space marine range, blood claws are no match for GHs properly used.

These sweeping statements always bring out the worst in me. .

Well, I'd have to say that GHs are no match for Blood Claws are properly used. But to prevent this from being simple hypocricy, I'll state why I think that.

When equal points are spent, I'd always rather have Blood Claws.

As an example:

10 man Grey Hunter Squad with 2 Power Fists costs almost exactly the same as a 12 man Blood Claw Squad with 3 Power Fists. And that's even before you buy the GH bolters to take advatange of true grit.


Standard round of combat, assuming no one charges both of these units will kill on average 4 of each other a turn, but with the BCs greater numbers they will ultimately prevail after aprox. three sustained rounds of combat.

If the Blood Claws charge, then they really have the advantage.

As you say, that's for massed infantry assaults as 12 blood claws can't fit into a rhino.

However, in a large point number game you could get over 6 units of rhino mounted BCs to 5 rhino mounted GH squads.

As Rhinos continue to suck, you'd probably be better with either a Land Raider Crusader, or drop pods.

Disadvantage with the BCs with this is their headstrong rule, and that if they come in on drop pods they don't have the firepower to take out much of anything in that first round of deployment.

A maxed out bolter, 2 plasma pistol, melta gun GH squad has the firepower, but costs a ton of points.

Admittedly, BCs can't shoot for the life of them, and I would never give them a melta gun. I'd give them a flamer if I gave them anything ranged at all.

Both units have their uses, and I tend to agree that Blood claws do not have the staying power of GHs, but with the added numbers you get for them it tends to even out in HtH.

The GHs better BS would seem to weigh the argument back in their favour, but you have to remember that the enemy is shooting at you too. Since they have the same toughness and armour, blood claws will last longer under enemy fire and more will reach hth because of it.

Space wolves are primarily a hth list. While their shooting should not be ignored, trying to focus on it will give you a very small army. And I've never seen such a small SW list win a game. In my opinion, despite the fluff, you're better off with 2 BC squads to every GH squad. But, eh. arguments can and will be made either way. So, I'm not saying take the minimum possible grey hunter squads, since in addition to being required to take one, they can pump out some decent firepower(for space wolves. ) and are certainly not shabby in hth, but I'd always promote taking more blood claws than grey hunter's.

I'm probably biased, because I tend to face opponents with very 'shooty' style lists when I field space wolves, so the more T4 bodies in power armour that I have the better, since all that matters is reaching them.

Honestly, the armies with a WS of 3 are going down anyways to the BCs, you don't need the GHs better WS to be sure of victory in HtH.

Against enemies with a higher WS like genestealers, being a GH won't save you, but more bodies might, so again, I'd go with blood claws.

Opponents with a higher toughness, again I'd have to go withe BCs because of the greater number of power fists you can have and for less points. Wraithlords for example die horrible mangled deaths to my blood claws every time I face them.

 

[Ikterus]

I agree with Grey completely.

You shouldn't focus too much on the WS. What's really important in CC is the number of attacks you can muster.

On the charge a unit of 11 BCs can put out 44 attacks and 12 of these are from power fists.

A unit of 10 GH with bolters can put out 20 attacks and "only" 4 from power fists. Then it doesn't matter that they have 1/6 better chance to hit...

No, use as many BCs as you can and make sure that they get the charge!

 

[Araith]

That are viable strategies: BCs and charge. But it's not the only way to win. A GH force can win just as good. They just have their own uses and are both just as good.


Tai'shar