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On p.58 of the codex it says that "no armour saves" are allowed against The Doom of Malan'tai's Spirit Leech ability. So can the enemy take invulnerable saves, and even cover saves? Sorry if this has been asked before; I did a quick search but nothing came up.

As far as it look, it appear like there is Invul but there isn't cover, as it's not shooting or any kind of active attack
 

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Yeah doom of malanthi is probably the most argued over unit in the entire codex. However from what has been decided for the most part by the online community, is as Horowitz Tal says, Invulnerable yes. Cover, most say no.

Theres aslo the issue of transports and weither or not the effect works on them, but that is such a grey area its best left well alone.
 

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Theres aslo the issue of transports and weither or not the effect works on them, but that is such a grey area its best left well alone.
Allow me to clear this up for you with some logic.

Psykers can use psychic abilities while in a vehicle, units can shoot from inside a vehicle as long as the vehicle has hatches and if the unit is a troop choice inside a vehicle then the unit is allowed to claim objectives.

My stand point on all of this is that any model embarked in a vehicle as long as that vehicle is on the table and is to be considered in play. Since the units are in play they can therefore become an active part of the game which means as long as they are within 6" of the doom they are targets of the ability.
 

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Hey

The guys are all correct on the stance that Invulnerable Saves may be taken against Spirit Leech, as the ruling would have actually said "no saves of any kind are allowed against these wounds", and they are also correct about their not being any cover saves, as cover only applies to a physical shot being fired, or a unit assaulting into a unit in cover, and as neither are being performed, the units targeted may not benefit from this form of save.

Good Hunting.
 

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The only issue with hitting a unit inside a transport is that most PSI abilities are not allowed to target them. So many argue the same with doom's abilities.
 

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I am a free man!
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The biggest problem with allowing the Doom to affect embarked units is that there are no rules for what happens when a Morale check is failed. The situation itself is entirely undefined. And because Spirit Leech clearly is a psyker power -- fluffwise, if not RAW-wise -- seems best to not open Pandora's Box and allow Spirit Leech to affect embarked units.

YMMV.
 

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The only issue with hitting a unit inside a transport is that most PSI abilities are not allowed to target them. So many argue the same with doom's abilities.
I think that you can do it, as it doesn't order you to choose, just like the parasite rule for outflank and vehicle
Still w8ing for FaQ
 

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Except parasite specifically says it can target a unit in a vehicle, doom does not.

IMHO it's a tossup. I've heard both sides of the issue and neither have a clear path to being correct. For this one I'd suggest talking it over with your opponent/club before you play so everyone has a clear understanding of what doom can do.
 

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Speaking purely from a RAW standpoint(is there any other?), the unit is not on the field and thus could not be targeted by nor affected by any psychic powers. Troops can fire there weapons from open topped vehicles as if they were on the field at that point, but this is an exception to the rule. You cannot shoot back at the unit inside the open topped vehicle because they are not actually on the field. Spirit Leech describes no specific exceptions and as such should not be allowed any exceptions.

Unless someone can find me a ruling that states something like "this unit counts as being on the field at this point, blah blah blah" then I can't see why anyone would think otherwise. If you can't find a solid ruling to back up an argument, don't bother coming in here saying "RAI". All you're saying then is "I don't play by the rules" and if that's the truth then keep it to yourself.

I'd also like to make it perfectly clear, I argue with the intent to learn. If I was absolutely certain in my stance, I wouldn't bother speaking up on a forum. So, think of this as a challenge to prove me wrong. Just be sure and use quotes and page numbers.
 

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If you can't find a solid ruling to back up an argument, don't bother coming in here saying "RAI". All you're saying then is "I don't play by the rules" and if that's the truth then keep it to yourself.
Youve got that wrong. RAI is when you say "I could play to my advantage, but on the basis that GW mucked up the rules for this unit, im going to let my opponent play the way his unit is intended."

If you insist on RAI for yourself, then yes that is wrong but please refrain from such sweeping comments, they can cause offence.

As for finding specific rulings, thats why theres an issue. Pg 66 tells us that when a unit is embarked, it is removed from the table. However the unit (at least the way i interpret the rules) is still inside the transport in question. A couple of reasons for this, again page 66 "If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit this range is measured from the hull." This would surgest to me that the unit can still be targeted for certain things.

And this is my main point, theres actually nothing that says you cant target units inside a vehicle. And thinking about it, the only real reason is that they arnt on the table. The eldar can target units inside a vehicle with powers like fortuune or guide (they can do that right? I havnt just made that up?), and based on the way doom works, i cant see why it wouldnt either.

Think about it, the power doesnt have a target and dosnt require LOS (its not a shooting attack) It just hits anything within 6" If a unit is in a vehicle thats within 6" id say it hits the models inside.
 

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It makes sense to me to think that the unit isn't on table, because the unit is in the transport. Looking at it the other way seems to imply to me that when a unit embarks a transport it somehow ceases to exist in the game until they disembark or the transport is destroyed.

Otherwise how could a unit in a transport capture objectives unless the unit was actually in the transport? I don't know, maybe im looking at it the wrong way, GW rules and RAW vs. RAI always gets me confused.
 

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Otherwise how could a unit in a transport capture objectives if the unit was actually in the transport? I don't know, maybe im looking at it the wrong way GW rules and RAW vs. RAI always gets me confused.
That is a Very good point, +rep
 

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Heirodule said:
A couple of reasons for this, again page 66 "If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit this range is measured from the hull." This would surgest to me that the unit can still be targeted for certain things.
I think that Heirodule has it right here. If the unit in a transport couldn't be affected by anything outside the transport, the rule would read "If the players need to measure a range from the embarked unit..." This to me says that outside special rules/effects (such as the Doom's Spirit Leech) can effect units in transports. The whole argument that psychic powers cannot target units in transports has absolutely no effect because Spirit Leech is neither a psychic power nor an ability that "targets" any unit.

As for morale checks for units inside transports, I would be perfectly willing to allow my opponent to just ignore them. as there's no real RAW evidence either way, it makes the game smoother, it will avoid an argument, and I think that if you were inside of a Land Raider and one of your buddies' soul got stolen, the last thing you would want to do would be to jump out of it and face what did it.
 
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