Stand and shoot. . .questions

649 Views 3 Replies 3 Participants Last post by version9, Jan 20, 2006

JORMAGI

Discussion Starter · Jan 19, 2006 (Edited)

OK, I'm starting to collect a Ogre Kingdom army, been kinda on pause for financial reasons for a few months, (so far I have a hunter, scraplancher, and a box of gnoblars.) but as long as all goes well with taxes (I find out tomarrow) I plan to actually get a playable force.

Now I'm a 40K veteren, but this will be my first endevor into fantasy; I'm excited to try it, but I have a question that I just can't figure out: it regards the stand and shoot charge reaction.

Let's suppose that an ogre player did something rather silly with their gnoblars and set them up like this:

...................XXXXX
...................XXXXX

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

OK the X's are the enemy about to charge let's call them cavelry ~12in away, they're over 1/2 their max charge range so the gnoblars can do a stand and shoot reaction.
The o's are the little gnoblars. OK the X's charge the gnoblars, and they choose to stand and shoot.
Ok situation set up: here is the question: The rule book says(if I'm not butchering the rules) that if the charging unit starts out of max range of the ranged attack (as is the case here) the attack is resolved at the maximum range of the ranged attack. My problem is that this happens at different times for different gnoblars. those actually lined up will all happen at once as seen below.

A) Do only these get to shoot? or. . .
....................XXXXX
....................XXXXX
....................|......|
....................|......|
....................|......|
....................|......|
....................|......|
....................|......|
ooooooooooOOOOOoooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
B) Or, perhaps a few inches closer all that will have range and line of site at the same time could shoot? as so:

....................XXXXX
....................XXXXX
.................../........\
................../..........\
................./............\
................/..............\
oooooooOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
(pretend that those slants are 45degree angles. . .) here more can shoot, but they have to let their opponent get closer.

C) or a third and even more silly option: once the charging squad gets within range of some of the gnoblars the entire front rank on gnoblars gets to open fire on the charging squad. (both ranks on a hill)?

D) defender picks between A & B?

E) I'm totally off and it's none of the above?
Whew hope that makes sense.

edited to fix formatting. . .also to add that I'm meaning to, or endorsing using such a odd formation in battle, this is just an object example so that I might better understand the rules.

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MobiusPrime

· #2 · Jan 19, 2006

A good question, and this is really only applicable for short shooting units like Gnoblars, Skinks, people with Pistols, etc.

The reason the rules mention such an obscurity is to keep players from saying 'I'm going to stand and shoot, but I'm going to only fire when you're within X" so I don't suffer a long range penalty'

I'm not sure whether or not Gnoblars even suffer this penalty. Long range is equal to the second half of your shooting range (so a long bow has a range of 30", short range is 1"-15" and long range is 16"-30")

So as the enemy charges, if you have Gnoblars that would be in range with their missile attack (throwing trash, which I think has an 8" range) then they can fire.

Keep in mind that the only models that get to make a stand and shoot reaction are ones who can see the charging unit. So in your example, it might not be possible for each guy (esspecially the ones on the end of the formation) to get to stand and shoot.

Also, I'm pretty sure that you can shoot in two ranks for a charge reaction if you are on a hill.

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JORMAGI

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 19, 2006

Ya, this is also applicable to units like pistol wielders, and skinks, ect., that's why I put in in this section.

I'm aware that they do need range and line of sight to be able to shoot back, that's why I don't believe C is a valid option.

The more I read over the rules, and think about it it seems to me that my option A is the correct answer, but I want B to be correct.
Hmm How does it work for skinks with javalins being charged in skirmishing formation? By the logic I used to get option A, only the front skirmishers could stand and shoot with their javalins. B would allow at least most of them to shoot.

Hmm perhaps Rereading the part of the rulebook that talks about panic tests charging units take from stand and stoot damage. perhaps the answer IS that it only maters for purposes of determining range penalties, and that I'm reading too much into this rule.

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version9

· #4 · Jan 20, 2006

"The rule book says(if I'm not butchering the rules) that if the charging unit starts out of max range of the ranged attack (as is the case here) the attack is resolved at the maximum range of the ranged attack."

The reason the rules are written as they are, as in so many other cases, is to simplify and speed up the game. I think you're overthinking this issue. All that the rule is meant to convey is that each model that is eligible to fire (front rank, front two ranks if on a hill, etc) makes a single attack at EITHER maximum range of their weapon, or the starting range of the charge, whichever is the closer of the two. Simply take a shot for each of your gnoblars using the rules for firing at 8" range and resolve it appropriately.

For fluff reasons, you can picture each gnoblar throwing trash as soon as the enemy comes within his personal range. The idea is that they're quickly getting off the first available shot and then getting ready to get up close and personal with the chargers.

For game purposes, it doesn't really matter at which point they shoot, since all shooting is resolved at once. The same interpretation works with skirmishers as well as with rank-and-file missile troops.

Hope that helps!

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