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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, all. After being acquainted with 40k for some time, I figured it's time to move on to Fantasy..

One of my friends has an Empire army. Another has Lizardmen. And the third is just starting up the new Dwarves... so, I decided to go along with them, and grab some of the good ol' Elves.

I wanted to get some suggestions before I go ahead and start buying models - I don't have the army book (yet!) but I have a fair idea of what is included in an army.

For the Border Patrol, I was considering a "Scout" theme - literally, a Border Patrol. No Forest Spirits, mainly ranged combat, skirmishing, ambushing, and staying out of CC. Would this be feasible?

I don't know the points, but I was thinking about something like this:

-Waywatcher Lord
-Glade Guard (bows)
-Glade Guard (bows, scouting?)
-Waywatchers

Very simple. Would it be effective at all? I might include something else, if I were to have the points, but that is my main idea for the Border Patrol aspect.

Do I need CC when it comes to the world of Fantasy? All of the other armies will most likely have some form of hand to hand unit - am I gipping myself by taking only archers, or is it an effective strategy while using the WE mobility to my advantage?

Also, any advice on taking out Empire, Lizardmen, and most especially the new Dwarves (they looked.. scary) would be greatly appreciated.

For his border patrol army, the Dwarves player is taking a Hero that has some rune giving him a 2+ ward save against shooting attacks... does this work similarly to an Invulnerable save in 40k? If so, how do I get around it, without having to get into CC with him? He's kitted for CC, so..

Thanks in advance, all!



 

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Yes the ward save is invulnerable.As for your army list i do think you will need some sort of cc unit,cause dwarf and lizzie, ouch,both very cc oriented army whit toughness 4,which mean your arrow will have a hard time killing their mark.To stay whit your theme i would go whit a fairly big squad (7-9) wardancer instead of the waywachter,they can inflict an insane amount of hits.

Hope that help.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
panzer96 said:
Yes the ward save is invulnerable.As for your army list i do think you will need some sort of cc unit,cause dwarf and lizzie, ouch,both very cc oriented army whit toughness 4,which mean your arrow will have a hard time killing their mark.To stay whit your theme i would go whit a fairly big squad (7-9) wardancer instead of the waywachter,they can inflict an insane amount of hits.

Hope that help.
Sort of, but I was kind of trying to look away from the Wardancers - they don't seem fluffy enough for a "Scout" type of thing, and I don't really like the idea of the unit all that much. I like 'em, but not enough, if that makes sense.

And, though I don't know what the rule Killing Blow actually does (don't have my rulebook on me), wouldn't the Waywatchers have a decent time killing T4 and such with that? I can't be positive.

I was thinking along the lines of keeping away from CC as much as possible.. maybe, with the points, I could add some Glade Riders.. or... more Glade Guard, with spears. Or something like that.



 

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I am not sure if Border Patrol allows mages. If they do you should include a mage instead of the waywatcher lord. If it doesn't I would suggest you make you hero a CC hero to finish off opponents after the Arrows wound them. I would say a Dryad Hero with a Spite that gives her terror.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
IamJasonK said:
I am not sure if Border Patrol allows mages. If they do you should include a mage instead of the waywatcher lord. If it doesn't I would suggest you make you hero a CC hero to finish off opponents after the Arrows wound them. I would say a Dryad Hero with a Spite that gives her terror.
Well, I was trying to go for a theme - while I know it limits the effectiveness of the army (it usually does), it'd be fun to play, and include an even higher depth of strategy needed to win.

I'm kind of looking forward to that, to be perfectly honest.

Is it possible to be effective by using the base units I listed above?

I mean, I could do a Mage, and it could, potentially, fit after some getting-together of fluff... but, characters are limited to a total points value of 125, and I'm not sure if I really want a Mage in there.

I'll have to look through the army book when I get it, but, I kind of want to stick with the whole "band of scouting archers" type deal. Asrai only, I'm hoping.



 

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hello,

welke to the forest.
Fisrt things first. CC is an important fase of WH.
If you want a themed army, why don't you take an winter theme?
Droping the wardancers there is another great asrai (WE) CC unit: Eternal guard.
A unit af GG (can't have spars) or two as missle fire and EG as CC-unit. take an EG noble and voila.
Like this:

Eternal guard Noble 80

10 glade Guard 120
10 glade Guard 120
14 Eternal guard with either a champion or standerd 180
total 500

You have a lot of shooting and the EG and Noble can handle themsleves in CC.
Hope it helps


Good Hunting!

Elfwarden
 

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if you want to keep your shooting them then keep gg norm gg (scouts arn't worth the extra points in these low games) i would get a mage as it is more fluffy for them to take in a scout army (or any army) as they are needed to open the paths through the forest plus the magic will help (especially treesinging), and lastly the eagle riders as they can shoot so they keep to your theme plus they would make excellent scouts (the image of eagles flying overheard telling what they see through a mind link with the mage is just too cool).
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the suggestions, all, but I really would like to just keep it as a "Scout" type of army.. or Patrol.. something like that. Not necessarily a winter theme, at least, not yet. Maybe later on, when I start playing it more.

And I really, really love Waywatchers. The models are alright, but I love the idea of them to begin with, and I think they fit in with this army reasonably well.

With using something like the below, would it be possible to be effective? Not necessarily super-competitive, but able to win with (and fun to run around):

-Some sort of Mage/Noble
-Some Glade Guard archers
-Some Waywatchers

Then, whatever else I have points for that I think still fits the theme.

Would it be possible to simply stay off the major CC type stuff for a game this small, and focus on the mobile shooting of the WE? Or do I really need a CC unit to win?



 

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Well its possible but the problem whit waywacther in low point game is that they will take a big chunk of your points. 10 waywatcher take about half of your 500 pts .....so its up to you.
Just hope they dont make it to cc whit any of your unit,otherwise your toast.
 

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yeah the models aside waywatchers suck and there is no way i would give up a rare choice to feild them.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Plague_00 said:
yeah the models aside waywatchers suck and there is no way i would give up a rare choice to feild them.
Why do they suck?

Please be specific, and include an explanation. I'm not going to disregard a unit because one, or even a few, person(s) says that it sucks.

I've read the opposite at other places - so, I'm just interested in why they are so bad?



 

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Well, the models are gorgeous. Mine painted up beautifully, but to be honest, I don't use them much. They are very expensive, even for five. Two eagles seems a better bargain.

You don't killing blows very often, not with that few models. Other than killing blow, they really have no advantages. They are hard to shoot at but vulnerable to magic. They have a special scouting rule, but I've found that a lot of tables don't have appropriate terrain for the rule. They get two attacks if you want to go warmachine hunting, but they are unarmored, despite what looks like wooden or bone armor on the models.

I just haven't found that they helped my army a lot.



 

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they are rediculusly expensive for what they are which is essentially scouts with killing blow andth eonly army i know that feilds lone characters is wood elves since killing blow dosn't work on anythin bigger than a human or elf it's no tworth it, on top of this they cost more points than they used to and have lost armour peircing which was made them better than gg.

it all comes down to is they are NOT worth the points that you pay for em and they are DEFINATELY not worth a rare choice.
 

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I have been reviewing my army book and you aren't going to get enough troops to be able to make this work. While you may be able to run around an opponents army for a long while. They will prolly catch up to you in turn 5 or 6 and do enough damage to win in points. I would definatly believed it possible if you didn't need normal glade guard to field a scout squad. But you do and at the GG cost you prolly won't win.

If you are serious about making Waywatchers an important part of you army you could do this.

Waywatcher Noble
+Extra Hand Weapon
6x Glade Riders
10x Waywatchers
That is 499pts. and adheres to Border Patrol Rules.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
IamJasonK said:
I have been reviewing my army book and you aren't going to get enough troops to be able to make this work. While you may be able to run around an opponents army for a long while. They will prolly catch up to you in turn 5 or 6 and do enough damage to win in points. I would definatly believed it possible if you didn't need normal glade guard to field a scout squad. But you do and at the GG cost you prolly won't win.

If you are serious about making Waywatchers an important part of you army you could do this.

Waywatcher Noble
+Extra Hand Weapon
6x Glade Riders
10x Waywatchers
That is 499pts. and adheres to Border Patrol Rules.
That list is reasonable-looking, but is there a better choice, maybe, than the Glade Riders? They fit the theme well enough, but don't they cost a fair amount of points?

Also, how would it fair against a small army of Dwarves, in particular? He has some Gunners, and some... bah, I don't know. Just a CC unit, maybe. Then, his Thane has a 2+ armour and 2+ ward save (vs. shooting and magic). How would I go about countering this?

Compared to the Glade Riders would a unit of CC-based Glade Guard be able to step up and save me a few extra points? Or...?

I really appreciate the help here.



 

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a unit that has (long)bows is intended to shoot, not make it into combat.
Yes GG can have a ful command, but with no armor there are mintsmeat in Cc. they are there to shoot your opponent to pieces.

if you go shooting than do your best to avoid CC.
The most shooty thing (and thing that resemble's youre needs/wants) i can think is:

Waywatcher Noble
+Extra Hand Weapon

10 GG
10GG
6 waywatchers

all models shoot, and it can be used to resemble a scouting force to ambush and shoot the enemy dead.
Hope it helps, since my ideas are staring to dry up.
 

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yeh you really set a high request with this one, the cc gladeguard you are refering to got axed when they made the new codex the only thing close is eternal guard but they are a special unless the gen is a highborn which you can't do in less than 2000.

look like i sed the waywatchers suck but if you really want to feild them then it's up to you but under no circumstances should they be used in anythin less than 1500 they just cost waaay too much and would do next to nothing all game especially against dwarfs.
 

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The reasons I am suggesting Glade Riders is because of their speed. Against Dwarves I imagine they could go the entire fight with out getting into CC. That means you would only need to worry about the Handgunners. I would think with 2 or 3 rounds of shooting those handgunners with all your units you might be able to take/break the squad. That means you can run around the map shooting the CC units for the next 3 rounds.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
IamJasonK said:
The reasons I am suggesting Glade Riders is because of their speed. Against Dwarves I imagine they could go the entire fight with out getting into CC. That means you would only need to worry about the Handgunners. I would think with 2 or 3 rounds of shooting those handgunners with all your units you might be able to take/break the squad. That means you can run around the map shooting the CC units for the next 3 rounds.
Do Glade Riders have bows? That would work out reasonably well. :yes:

Thing is, it does seem to be a bit lacking on the numbers-side of things.

Would it be a better investment to, maybe, replace the Waywatchers with Glade Guard (with bows) and use the Waywatcher Noble/Glade Riders as suggested? I think, in this case, more Glade Guard with more shots would help better than a rare Killing Blow.. but in higher point games, I'd definitely take some Waywatchers.



 
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