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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I used to dabble a bit in warhammer 40k and I have decided to come back to it. With 'nids. Only problem is I am not sure how to fit out my army. I already have two squads of eight genestealers with no upgrades. The sort of army I am going for is a monstery type army, not a swarm. So what units should I get and how should I kit them out. And what order should I get them in.

p.s. I'm going to keep to about 1000/1500 pt limit


EDIT: woops...my slow internet made it post the thread loads of times, sorry :(
 

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Firstly, what monsters interest you the most? Doesn't do us any good to say "Tervigon!" if you either don't like it, prefer other Troops over it (e.g., genestealers) or don't want to convert one up.

Secondly, you must ensure that your army can handle any type of opponent. It must be capable of destroying large hordes. It must also be capable of destroying tanks -- especially transports -- at range with shooting. It must be redundantly build and resilient to damage -- it must not have any lynchpin units, either -- so you can suffer losses and still prosecute your game plan. It must be somewhat mobile and capable of delivering Troops onto objectives, especially enemy-held objectives, so you can win objective-based games.

That is, you must build a balanced army. :)

There are many many ways to build a monstrous creature-themed army with Tyranids. But the mix of MCs will depend on what choices you really feel you "must" have, because you'll fill in the gaps to complete your balanced force after you've sorted those out first.
 

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How are your raveners going to "accompany" a trygon or mawloc? If you're thinking of using the trygon's tunnel, think again. There is no way you can ensure that the Trygon comes on before any other unit that might want to use the tunnel. And even if you could guarantee that, you don't want to! You realize that means that the best possible results are:

Turn 2: Trygon pops up, does nothing but get shot.

Turn 3: Game is halfway over, and assumint it survives, trygon gets to do something useful. Raveners come through tunnel, do nothing but get shot.

Turn 4: Game may end next turn, and assuming raveners survive, they may get to do something useful.

Disabuse yourself of the notion that the trygon tunnel is any use at all. It isn't. You may get lucky with it, but don't ever plan on it.

And your plan still gives you no ability to destroy armour or other enemy monstrous creatures. One zoanthrope does not shooting make. ;)

You need zoanthropeS and/or hive guard and/or tyrannofexes and/or heavy venom cannons (on tyrants, carnifexes, harpies), otherwise your average space marine or IG army -- the two most popular 40K armies by a wide wide margin -- will just laugh at you as you walk into their guns, safe inside their vehicles, and shoot you down.

It is all but impossible to play Tyranids effectively without shooting. They're a combined arms force. You can get big guns in almost every force org slot, and you must do so, too, if you intend to compete in your games.
 

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How are your raveners going to "accompany" a trygon or mawloc? If you're thinking of using the trygon's tunnel, think again. There is no way you can ensure that the Trygon comes on before any other unit that might want to use the tunnel. And even if you could guarantee that, you don't want to! You realize that means that the best possible results are:

Turn 2: Trygon pops up, does nothing but get shot.

Turn 3: Game is halfway over, and assuming it survives, trygon gets to do something useful. Raveners come through tunnel, do nothing but get shot.

Turn 4: Game may end next turn, and assuming raveners survive, they may get to do something useful.

Disabuse yourself of the notion that the trygon tunnel is any use at all. It isn't. You may get lucky with it, but don't ever plan on it.

And your plan still gives you no ability to destroy armour or other enemy monstrous creatures. One zoanthrope does not shooting make. ;)

You need zoanthropeS and/or hive guard and/or tyrannofexes and/or heavy venom cannons (on tyrants, carnifexes, harpies), otherwise your average space marine or IG army -- the two most popular 40K armies by a wide wide margin -- will just laugh at you as you walk into their guns, safe inside their vehicles, and shoot you down.

It is all but impossible to play Tyranids effectively without shooting. They're a combined arms force. You can get big guns in almost every force org slot, and you must do so, too, if you intend to compete in your games.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So I take it more zoanthropes are needed and less raveners and no trygon?

for the 'fexes I was thinking of dakkafexes with heavy venom cannons?

I was going to get a unit or two of warriors with deathspitters for holding objectives /shooting/supporting other 'nids



p.s.

and this is why I was asking for help on the forums before buying/making a bad army
 

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So I take it more zoanthropes are needed and less raveners and no trygon?
Not really what I'm saying. :rotfl: What I am saying is that if you want raveners and a trygon -- and you can still use 'em, just don't plan on that trygon tunnel is what I'm saying there ;) -- you're doing well on the assault front (you're still using genestealers as well, I believe?) but poorly on the shooting front. So you need to balance your assault elements with shooty elements.

More zoanthropes are one way to do it. But more zoanthropes probably can't be your only answer, either. Spread the love around your force org chart a bit.
Kaail said:
for the 'fexes I was thinking of dakkafexes with heavy venom cannons?
Can definitely be effective.
Kaail said:
I was going to get a unit or two of warriors with deathspitters for holding objectives /shooting/supporting other 'nids
Warriors are also a fine choice.
Kaail said:
and this is why I was asking for help on the forums before buying/making a bad army
What points limit are you shooting for? Putting up a list or two for critique will help with more specific advice as well. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I’m aiming for 1500 pts

Hive Tyrant
w/twin-devourers with brainleech worms
+indescribable horror
+thorax swarm with desiccator larvae
+adrenal glands 245pts

16 Genestealers
w/adrenal glands 272pts

6 Warriors
w/adrenal glands and deathspitters 255pts
+venom cannon

+mycetic spore
w/barbed trangler 55pts

Tyrannofex
w/rupture cannon
+desiccator larvae 265pts


This is what I have thought of so far
 
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Well, here's my 1000 point list for our PE tournament down my club, see what you think:

1 - Hive tyrant - Acid Blood, Regen, Paroxysm, Leech Essence. Armed with Lash whip & Bonesword and Heavy Venom Cannon
2- Mawloc - Regen, adrenal glands & toxin sacks
3 - 20 Stealers
4 - 20 Stealers

My first battle they lost, not because of any intrinsic weakness on their part, but bad use of my Tyrant, I should have been far more aggressive with it. I still scored 2 points plus 1 for losing. My opponent only got 1 kill point plus 5 for the win. So you can see if it had been annihalation, I'd have won. It was actually Seize ground :(
 

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I was too caught up on the forty genestealers. That's bolter paradise right there! Marines love rapidfiring enemies that don't get an armour save and cost more a man than they do... At least my marines love that stuff...

Raveners are fast and so are Trygons. Make it a prime and you can move and run for a turn together before charging with the Raveners and following up with the Trygon. Both are fleet and so the Trygon has an effective range of 13 to 18 inches while the Raveners are slightly fatser at 19 to 24 inches. It's a decent force, especially as a Trygon is one of our new best tank-eaters in CC.

The trick is to fit it in with the rest of your army plan so that you opponent doesn't just blow you away piecemeal.
 

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How are your raveners going to "accompany" a trygon or mawloc? If you're thinking of using the trygon's tunnel, think again. There is no way you can ensure that the Trygon comes on before any other unit that might want to use the tunnel. And even if you could guarantee that, you don't want to!.
also don't forget Raveners can't use the tunnel either - they're beasts
 

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@kaail well spotted, whilst here is perhaps not the appropriate place to discuss JBowers list, if you were facing a mechainsed army (all in transports) the list would be as good as doomed. No offence meant to JBoweruk but i wouldnt recogmend using that list to re-start your gaming as it does have a very large flaw.

Going back to the list you posted, its a good start but theres a couple of issues. Your Tyrant is incredibly expensive and i urge you to check the point again on him, but in the meantime, drop indescribable horror as its almost useles, your much better off with old adversary or Hive commander if you have reserves. He doest need the thorax swarm or the glands either. I would give him a second pair of TL devourers to maximise his firepower and wings, to make sure you can get the range and speed to use them.

The genestealers are too many, you really dont need 16, id drop it down to 10, with a broodlord. They dont need any upgrades either.

With the rest of your points, i would buy yourself at least 3 hive guard for extra tank busting, a trygon and possible a 2nd T-fex if points allow it. Hormaguants with toxin sacs will also prove effective.
 

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If your shooting for an MC heavy list, I'd suggest a walking tyrant ( I do sore adore my flyrant) but he needs to fit in with the rest of his buddies!, A heavy Venom cannon partnered with a bonesword and lashwhip, or 2 pairs of TL brainleech devourers fit that role well

I'd suggest 3 hive guard minimum for 1500 points, there quintessential and busting open cans ;p

instead of 1 large brood of 6 warriors maybe have 2 groups of 3 instead?

genestealers... yes, yes heirodule is right here 8-10 with a lord is all you really need :)

HORMAGAUNTS were are your hormagaunts! theese guys are wonderful for screening your warriors and work wonders with toxin sacs against everything not in a vehicle!

I see you picked a T-Fex, a fine choice, but I think he needs a partner in crime something fast to mop up the mess he makes early on, maybe use your stealers and a trygon to intercept them? or some bivores to plaster them with large plates of doom the turn they get thrown from there fancy transport?

other than that I say good job :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
He doest need the thorax swarm or the glands either.

The genestealers are too many, you really dont need 16, id drop it down to 10, with a broodlord. They dont need any upgrades either.
I already have 16 and wouldn't the thorax swarm be useful for disintergrating enemy squads before assaulting. wounds on 2+ and hits on 4+
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
How about;

Hive Tyrant
w/2x twin- brainleech devourers
+thorax swarm with desiccator larvae 225pts

16 Genestealers (including broodlord)
w/broodlord 270pts

3 Warriors
w/adrenal glands and deathspitters
+venom cannon 135pts

+mycetic spore
w/barbed strangler 55pts

3 Warriors
w/adrenal glands and deathspitters 135pts
+venom cannon

Tyrannofex
w/rupture cannon
+desiccator larvae 265pts

Trygon Prime
w/regeneration 265pts

3 Hive Guards 150pts

Total points = 1500
 

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I already have 16 and wouldn't the thorax swarm be useful for disintergrating enemy squads before assaulting. wounds on 2+ and hits on 4+
Just because you have something doesnt mean you should use it. If your that set on using all your stealers then have 2 squads of 8, not one squad of 16.

As for thorax swarms, two things. 1, your tyrant will never live to actually use the thing because its slow and unprotected and 2, you dont need to roll to hit with a flame template.

Siriously, dont bother with thorax swarms, they make you slow becuase you cant take wings and really you just dont need them. Youd be much better off with wings or tyrant guard for speed and survivablity. Drop it.

Regarding the list you posted, its very flawed. Youve got the thorax swarm on still (wings or guard as said above) and your still running 16 genestealers in one brood which you just dont need.

Drop one of the warrior broods and the tyrannofex. The warriors are overkill and the T-fex doesnt work in anything under 2000, 1750 at a pinch.

You also want to ditch the regeneration on the Trygon Prime, its not worth it.

Drop 6 of the stealers and with points left over, by yourself the upgrades for the tyrant, more hive guard (another 3) and then AT LEAST 20 toxin sac hormaguants.

P.s you should really post this in the army list section now, thats where it belongs.
 

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Mostly I agree with Heirodule's advice. Especially where he's talking about thorax swarms on Tyrants. I do think that a single Tfex is fine at 1500 pts, but definitely not two of them.

Rather than write another essay, I'll suggest a list using the units you're using (or that you mentioned you wanted to use) that incorporate Heirodule's advice and my own thoughts. See what you think.

HQ
[210 pts] Hive Tyrant, brainleech devourers, heavy venom cannon
[60 pts] Tyrant Guard

Elite
[100 pts] 2 Hive Guard
[100 pts] 2 Hive Guard

Troops
[158 pts] 8 Genestealers, Broodlord
[112 pts] 8 Genestealers
[155 pts] 4 Warriors, 4x rending claws, 3x devourer, 1x venom cannon

Fast Attack
[140 pts] 4 Raveners, scything talons, rending claws

Heavy Support
[265 pts] Tyrannofex, rupture cannon, cluster spines, desiccator larvae
[200 pts] Trygon

Total: 1500 pts

Sorta-kinda a grab bag, but not too bad for all that. It is expected that you will walk everything, including the raveners and trygon. Don't outflank any genestealers, though you can feel free to infiltrate them. Advance the entire army up, don't let anything hang back in your deployment zone.

The idea is that you'll have genestealers and raveners -- and possibly your trygon, too, with a bit of luck -- all threatening a turn 2 assault upon infantry you've exposed via your tyrant, hive guard, and tfex. At 1500 pts, that's a lot to shoot down in just a game turn, and you'll still have the tyrant, Warriors, and Tfex backing everything up right behind.

If you were willing to sacrifice the Tfex -- leaving you with just 2 MCs, a little dicey -- you could scrounge some points back by taking a Prime and two zoanthropes. Attach the Prime to the zoeys and walk 'em up as a unit. That'd net you enough points to get that 2nd stealer unit a Broodlord of its own (with points still to spare), which would be ideal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
How about this? It is similar to yours but tweaked slightly. With deathspitters the raveners could stop and shoot 18" then move 12" then assault 6"

Or they(and the trygon) can deep strike and shoot on the turn they come out. Tell me what you think.

Hive Tyrant
w/heavy venom cannon
+Hive commander 220pts

1 Tyrant Guard 60pts

8 Genestealers (Including broodlord) 158pts

8 Genestealers (Including broodlord) 158pts

3 Warriors
w/2xdeathspitters
+venom cannon 115pts

Tyrannofex
w/rupture cannon
+desiccator larvae 265pts

Trygon Prime 240pts

3 Hive Guards 150pts

3 Raveners
w/rending claws
+deathspitters 135pts

Total points = 1501


I'm not going to do competitions so is 1 point over fine?
 
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