[avatar96]

Hey guys,
Im pretty new to warhammer, a mate introduced me and told me a bit about it not too long ago, and it seems like a pretty awesome game. I might be starting an army soon, and was pretty interested in an Eldar army.
Im really interested to hear your thoughts about which units would be the best to start with, if the battleforce is ok etc etc

thanks all

 

[mmarker1900]

First of all, please feel free to read a number of the posts on units and army builds here in the forum. There is a lot more than any of us can spit out in a single thread to be had on this. The battleforce can be good to build an initial force with, but you will end up with about half of the models that you won't use once you get your army running the way you want it. Kind of seems like a waste.

Some basic questions you need to answer, and it would help us to help you:
What kind of army are you looking to play? Foot slogging infantry, or armored company?
How many points are you looking at playing?

As a basis, of course, you need a minimum of 2 troop choices:
A low point unit to get Wave Serpents is your Dire Avengers.
Your Guardians are your foot slogging infantry that can get some heavy weapons (may also want to take a Wave Serpent with these).
Jetbikes are great in squads of 3 for objective grabbing.
Rangers are good snipers.

You will definitely want to invest in War Walkers (Scatter Laser and Brightlance or Starcannon builds are the best).
Your HQ should be a Farseer or Spiritseer. Spiritseer mainly if you are looking at taking Wraithguard.

Other fast and hard hitting units you may want to look at:
Fire Dragons are excellent at tank killing and can eliminate some troops relatively easy (put them in a Wave Serpent).
Warp Spiders are another fast and hard hitting unit that work on foot.
Wraithknight is a good, fast moving, hard hitting unit, to look at as well, but due to it's initial cost may be something you want to add later.

 

[avatar96]

Thanks heaps for the advice man,
And I would think a fast and extremely mobile army would be cool, especially for eldar as they are based on speed and mobility from what I've heard
What would things like the shining spears, swooping hawks and banshees be like as they seem pretty mobile.
I also wouldn't mind a fairly hard hitting unit (both ranged and CC), as eldar have rules etc which allows then to be mobile and quick (they have good initiative), so I am also interested in units au has striking scorpions, wraithblades/wraithguard/wraithlords etc and the idea of a farseer/spiritseer sounds cool
Any thoughts on the Phoenix lords and the avatar?
And since I'm starting off, I'm just looking to build a 1000-1500pt army

 

[mmarker1900]

Shining Spears can be used decently if you are willing to deal with their weaknesses (they can die fairly easily). I have run them before with a moderate level of success using 6 of them with an Exarch with Hit-and-run, and a Farseer on Jetbike with Spear.

Swooping Hawks main purpose should be to run them in 6 man units to get the Large Blast template and to take out vehicles with Haywire Grenades. Other than that, their shooting is very weak, and like most Eldar, they die easily to shooting.

There are some units I don't recommend, because they just can't hold up to the rigors of combat in this edition. Striking Scorpions and Howling Banshees are two of those units.

Wraithguard/blades are a decent unit, it is all in how you use them (I have yet to hear anyone state that they are amazing). The Wraithlord doesn't have the speed compared to the Wraithknight, and really can't get where he is needed. Outfitting one to shoot is highly expensive for a model and there are much better options to use your Heavy slot on, like War Walkers.

I can't really recommend any HQ's other than the Autarch, Farseer, and Spiritseer. The Avatar has a very strong weakness in that it is "Deamon". This means that it will be at a disadvantage to a number of units with Favored Enemy: Deamon, or to some Deamon control abilities (after having an opponent control my Avatar and have it attack me, I don't play it anymore). All of the Phoenix Lords are extremely high priced, and I have not seen them being worth their points to really use them. Freeing up an average off 100 points for more units is a good thing.

Your best speed units are Warp Spiders, Wraithknight, and Jetbikes. Jetbikes should be used pretty much for just objective grabbing and keep them in reserves as long as possible. Your other option would be to go with Vypers, be sure to upgrade the Shuriken Catapult to a Shuriken Cannon, and possibly upgrading to the Starcannon.

One of the fastest, hardest hitting, units I have used is Fire Dragons. People don't want them getting near, and will shoot at the Wave Serpent they are in freely. I usually run 6 to 7 of them in a Wave Serpent and run it up at my target of choice. S8 AP1 shots will take out just about anything, and many of times, your opponent will destroy your Wave Serpent forcing them to get out, which allows you to shoot freely with them on your next turn. They usually take out whatever I have them go after.

I don't recommend taking Exarchs, except in cases like the Shining Spears where you need an ability for them to be more useful. Use those points elsewhere for other shooting.

 

[avatar96]

Again dude, thanks heaps.

So basically eldar aren't too bad in CC (with few models, the other ones are questionable) but they are much more effective in using their mobility, speed and shooting?

wow, looking at it on paper the Avatar looks OP as hell, but yeah didn't think of all the daemon control rules etc, but he still could be effective? Like, on paper it really looks like he is awesome, and I think 195 points for him is great value, but even if some units have preferred enemy (daemon) he is still T6 w/ 3+/5++ so he seems pretty sturdy, just want more insight to how he is vulnerable, and how often these daemon control abilities you come across etc

Also, the hawks would be excellent anti-vehicle as they can deepstrike without scatter, and then easily assault a vehicle w/ haywire grenades which glance on 2+ (penetrating on a 6), does anyone agree with this?

So when using an eldar army, in your opinion, would you prefer a wraith-based army or leaning more towards aspect warriors? or maybe a balance of both?
And would you consider using a swooping hawk exarch? they can be pretty good at being a nuisance as a sunrifle can cause blind
But yeah, them fire dragons and warp spiders are choice from what I've heard, definitely going with them as elites/fast attack

Thanks heaps for the advice man

 

[mmarker1900]

The Avatar is a very tough character on the field. He will rarely see close combat, as he just doesn't have the speed and your opponent will usually dedicate a serious amount of shooting to take him out. On the plus side, he will have absorbed a good amount of shooting that didn't go into the rest of your army. So simply, he is a great to soak shooting from your opponent, dedicate him to that task and dieing. Keep him out front of your army and give your opponent something you want him to shoot at, rather than the rest of your army.

I would say that Eldar are "fair" at close combat. Dedicated units to CC in Space Marines, Dark Eldar, and Chaos will usually mop the floor with most Eldar units. The amount of points that we have to put into being good at CC just isn't worth it usually. Consider that you really need that Farseer and his psychic powers, as well as purchasing an Exarch with Hit-and-run, to make Shining Spears have a fair run at it, makes it rather expensive.

Eldar's strength, as you have said, is definitely shooting and moving.

I lean more towards Aspect Warriors in my army rather than using Wraith units. I have never had any luck getting them where I need them on foot, and, while they are survivable in CC, have not had a basic Wraithguard unit really hold up and do anything amazing. I am currently working on tactics and using Guardians as a foot slogging unit to augment my army. I ran a 500 point battle last night, where space marines got within range of 2 squads of 10 Guardians and really paid for it with Bladestorm and the Brightlances. I took out his Captain with a Brightlance shot (one hit, one kill, as it was double his toughness and he was exposed out front after the shooting from the other unit). The rest automatically died to 4 Bladestorms from one unit, and 2 from the other. My Guardians could just as easily have died if assaulted or been shot up though. But, I happened to keep them just out of range of CC and use them correctly, and they really paid off. A lot of using many of these units comes down to getting them where you need them, when you need them, and certain Aspect Warriors are great at it because of their specialized roles.

I would run Swooping Hawks as a 6 man unit, no Exarch. They have their roles, such as taking out vehicles, and shooting really shouldn't be one of them.

I recently posted this build. If you really want to go all out shooting, this would definitely do it. The troop choice is malleable, but I chose the Wraithguard for their S10 AP 1 shooting.
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/eldar-army-lists/271289-1850-point-s6-spam.html

 

[avatar96]

Again, thank you so much for this advice, really helpful to use when thinking about stariting an army man, cheers for that.

Any more advice? From anyone?

 

[danny1995]

First piece of advice is before you decide what to do with your army buy the book, nothing worse then buying a pile of models and then finding out you don't like the way their rules work. Guardians are AMAZING in this edition, simply put you can have a highly effective tank killing unit (bright lance) and effective at killing infantry. A lot of people would argue against this fact but in my opinion Warlocks with guardians is really good for a foot slogging list.

 

[avatar96]

Guardians seem like a good bang for your buck in the 6th

Any brief opinions on the aspect warriors:
Hawks, scorpions, banshees, spiders, spears, dragons, crimson hunters and DA's?
And HQ choices such as seers, autarchs and the unique characters (such as Phoenix lords etc)

If anyone can be bothered, it'd be good to know about the wraith based units as well,
Ty guys

And to clarify, all the grav tanks and war walkers are worth it right? Most are essential or useful?

 

[danny1995]

Hawks, meh, weak shots but can take out tanks with Haywire, but there are better choices in that slot.
Scorpions, pretty good, they pump out a lot of attacks at high initiative and have a marine save and S4 in CC
Banshees, ick, just ick, if you REALLY want a CC unit these are not the way to go they still are only S3, they have an AP but it doesn't really make up for it
Spiders godly, no other way of putting it, they simply kill EVERYTHING, get some, now
Spears again, meh, better choices in you Fast Attack slots (may i remind you of spiders) they are like light cavalry, they kill on the charge but then crumble subsequently
Dragons popular belief is that they are very good, I personally don't have a lot of luck with them, but if you're going to take them your best bet is to get them in a Wave Serpent and get them up quick to take out vehicles and heavy infantry.
Crimson Hunters if your meta has a lot of flyers, its great at taking out those, but they are starting to dissapear from play now because EVERY army has some way of dealing with them in their new books
Dire Avengers Most people are only taking these to run serpent spam these days, guardians are generally better for your points
Seers Farseers and Spiritseers are AMAZING, warlocks, less so but I am a big fan of them myself, boosts up the Guardians very effectively.
Autarch Current rules they are pretty good, they are especially useful if you have a lot of reserves just to make extra sure they do or do not come in.
Eldrad Not as good in this edition due to the cost, but kind of terrifying still
Avatar Expensive, and CC based, not really the point of Eldar
Phoenix Lords Most are only decent, but Asurmen is actually pretty good, he can do some nasty things to people in any phase.
Illic He's kind of for giggles, not good, not bad, but if you want to run rangers or pathfinders he can add some punch to them.
Yriel Tooled up Autarch, I've seen him be played but again, he's designed for CC
Wraithguard With the D-Scythes these guys rip things apart, moving them close to your enemy is never a worry because they are high toughness high save and if you get charged 5d3 shots on your overwatch (I've had opponents nearly cry when I told them that)
Wraithblades I don't like them, but high toughness, high strength and multiple attacks is pretty useful.
Wraithlord CC unit, funny thing about them is they can challenge, doing that against a Sergeant is PRICELESS
Wraithknight Take him bare, charge him into combat, win, move on.
Grav tanks Falcon, BAD, do not get, Fire Prism, alright good against almost anything, Wave Serpents GET MORE, I dont care how many you have, get more.
War Walkers oodles of fun, thats all there is to it, oodles

 

[avatar96]

[MENTION=87660]danny1995[/MENTION] nice dude, heaps of info to think about when starting
From the things I've heard you're spot on with most after reading some reviews etc
Hawks can also pump out bulk shots, do you guys think they are worth it? IMHO I reckon them and warp spiders would be good fast attacks but hey trial and error

Finally something good about the scorpions! They look good on paper

Anyone else agree with Danny? Anymore that anyone wants to share?