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heretical thoughts?
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm new to eldar, but not 40k, and I need some help working a good Biel Tan list.

My main problem is I like every aspect but dire anvengers and shinning spears. Yea, kinda odd for that to be a problem, especially since thats what beil tan do best, but it makes it hard for me to decide what i need to take... On the upside I can afford all of the stuff I want, I suppose, but still.... I guess I mean I want it more assaulty, but since I want so much.. I also want to have variation, but at the same time i don't... yea it confuses me too...

My main cocern is that i will start drifting towards heavier shootier units, and I don't want that because I already have SM and Necrons that are very shooty....

I also want an army to pair up with kroot mercs that I am starting soon, but are more fast and durable than that... would probably only use kroot with a more shoty variant to the army... as defencemaybe not though...


I have a list im working on that should help...


Farseer (possibly on jetbike) pistol and whitchblade, mindwar----I do like the other powers, and might use it as support when not on a jb

avatar---like it, cheap, good conversion possibilities, and the court for large battles

10 scorpions with nades and exarch with claw and stealth---I might get two squads, but for now 1 is all I'm considering...

10 spiders---I'm not too sure about these, but after playing tau, jsj is too good to pass up...

5 reapers fast shot eml exarch- I dont want to go too shooty, but thinking about 10 total...not sure

10 dragons in wave serpent (see below) exarch with pike and burning fist--- I do like these, and I don't use meltas in my SM so thats a bonus :) like scorps I kinda sorta want 2 units, but not too much....

10 banshees in wave serpent (see below) exarch with power blades---is executiner better? Also, not sure about these... not too keen on the looks, and I know how bad they can be in cc at times.. (not for t5 combat situations)but they are good cc units, and I can see their uses, so I might invest in 2 units, but most likely no...

wave serpents-spirit stone, suricannon and star cannon on banshee, bright lance on dragons---any help with these would be great, as I'm still getting used to these vehicles

2-3 vypers, seperate units, spirit stones, star cannon and bright lance one on each---now that I look a it, it would be better to keep one weapon on these and one on serpants.... now which one? also needs upgrade help..

wraith lord with star cannon--love it, another fire support unit along with the reapers

falcon holofeild, spirit stone, starcannon and suricannon--not sure agai best way to equip with upgrades... help needed

ok now to things I haven't decided on...

5 swooping hawks with web and sustained assault exarch--- not sure how good this is, need advice, and should it ds for the 'nade launcher?

guardians---don't know how many, what kind or if ther should be a warlock or not... I like the models, so I'm torn between taking a squad or more of other stuff... maybe i'll get a good size squad and only feild it occasionally... with vypers guardians, kroot if I take em, and these, elite spots are at a premium..

thats all I have so far.. yea I guess it is quite a bit, but still....

all feedback on what I have and how it can be improved would be greatly appreciated... Thanks

ShadowZora13
 

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i'd drop the avatar beilt tann are characterised as a fast army and hes jus gonna slow em down
 

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I agree. I've been playing Biel-Tan for a while and I find that the Wraithlord and the Avatar just slow down the the army. You want nothing but Mechanized tanks ans transports to get your fragile Aspect warriors into battle.

You'll need at least 2 Wave Serpents and 1 Falcon.

My list consists of roughly the following:

10 banshees in a serpent with Exarch

8 Scorpions with Exarch and Stealth

8 Dire Avengers with Exarch and Farseer with Guide

5 Fire Dragons in a Falcon

8 Warpspiders with Maybe an exarch for hiot and run

2 Vypers with starcannons

It's a hard list to use. Beil Tan is not an easy army to field. They are fragile and everything is expensive including our transports. But don;t forget, we can move 24 inches if we need to.

Feield 2 Farseers. One with Guide to reroll the Dire avenger shots after they are deployed and one with Fortune to reroll the Scorps or banshees armor saves. Mindwar is also a very good power for sniping....
 

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heretical thoughts?
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yea, i might drop the avatar, but i don't see a problem with slower units like reapers and wraithlords... if they are being used to shoot at things, moving wont be too big of a problem...

and I really don't see the point in dire avengers... its not unfluffy to have guardians
 

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heretical thoughts?
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I know about shinning spears, but do you have a reason for saying no hawks? I have heard they can be a great exarch deliverer. I have done some pretty extensive research, so please back up your suggestions with reasoning.
 

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Simple Green.
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Great Exarch deliever they are NOT. Must I remind you he still is plagued with str-3 and is HORRIDLY EXPENSIVE!!! If you want a Hawk get Baharroth but still I wouldn't recommend him as he has no invul. save. If you like the Avatar keep him, play with what you like. In my 1500 Biel-Tan I use an Avatar and he IS good in close combat, though slow, he can easily make back his points. Wraithlords, I would recommend 1-2 for 1500+ games, 1 for 1000-. Many people fear them (with good reason) and they WILL be shot as, if not that pesky Daemon Prince is looking for an insta-kill a$$-woopin. I'll post more when I have more time, peace for now 8)
 

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heretical thoughts?
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I can see what your saying with the hawks, but even so...an average of 10-15 attacks does kill,, plus the ord bombing...iono I'll think about it...

now I just want to make sure, web of skulls is JUST a power weapon in cc, not power weapon plus keep rolling hits untill 4...that would be weird with sustained assault.
 

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Simple Green.
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Web of skulls only keeps rolling (upto a max of 4) for shooting. In combat it is used as a regular old power (reg.) weapon but with sustained assault you can keep rolling all you hit.

P.S. - the average is not 10-15. Average is (on charge): 6-9. Unless you get AMAZING rolls, you will barely ever see 12+.
 

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I think too, that the Exarch delivery system is a wee bit too unfluffy and expensive and fragile to justify about 160 points. You could get like... something else for those points.

They could be useful in a slow shooty army for counter-attacking and saving your units in cc but I don't think they have a place in a biel-tan army.
 

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heretical thoughts?
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
New list worked out:

HQ:
first farseer variants: (all might take gosthelm and/or runes of itnessing if i got pts)
-jetbike, witchblade, pisto,l mindwar
-pistol, witchblade, fortune ---for banshees
-singing spear, guide ---for dragons, drop spear for pistol and ccw/witchblade for guardians or reapers

karandras (maybe) if i use him might drop a scorpion exarch, or not, depends on pts

elite:
3 vypers- starcannon, spiritstone---seperate squads when they can
16 guardians, warlock with conceal, pistol, witchblade, heavy wep platform w/ shuriken or star cannon

troops:
10 spiders
5 reapers-exarch-eml, fastshot
10 dragons-WS-brightlance, spiritstone (drop one dragon for seer to fit)
10 banshees-exarch-with excecutioner-WS same as above (drop one banshee for seer to fit)
20 scorps -exarchs-stealth, claw (if I keep exarch in karandras' squad, drop stealth)

heavy support- WL w/ bright lance or starcannon
falcon-spirit stone, holofield, starcannon (now that i think about it, might get 2)

lances in most effective places, but of course could be switched out for star cannons or vice versa if i need more or less
 

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You can't use Karandras' stealth ability to let your scorps infiltrate, you still need stealth on the Exarch.
 

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Honestly, get rid of the Dark Reapers. I've used them quite a bit and they never ever make their point back. They are too expensive and any opponent is smart enough to kill them by turn 2. At 37 points each they will need to kill over 2 space marines per reaper and if you are using a Reaper Exarch you are wasting even more points.

Don't get me wrong. They look cool and they look good on paper, but they are gonna get trashed too fast to be of any really use.

The only thing they are going to do is give your enemy Victory points.

And same goes with Swooping Hawks. I've since placed them on my shelf until the new codex. They cost way too much for a T3 model that has a St 3 weapon. Forget about them. Use more Warp Spiders instead.

As of the current codex Reapers, Hawks and possibly even Avengers are no good.

Still I use Avengers because they are very fluffly and they have a nice BS. Pair that with a Farseer that has guide and you are going to be hitting with a lot of shots.
 

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Simple Green.
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Reapers > Avengers...they may be more costly but here's the advantages to them:
1) They provide a stable firebase (STR-5 and AP-3 2 SHOTS EACH!!!!!)
2) Your opponent WILL target them, meaning something else will live.
3) If you put them in a bunker or ruined building, they should definitley survive past turn-2

That's mostly my opinion, but as you can see, opinions range from total dislike to "I wouldn't leave home without them." Shadow this one is your call, but personally I recommend that you keep them in your army.
 

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I never leave my Dark Reapers at home, the enemy will just target them and blow the building apart, and I want my home intact.

However I look at them, I can't see how they're supposed to make their points back against a balanced army. I prefer 1.5 War walkers instead of 4 Dark reapers, that's 9 star cannon shots or 8 reaper launcher shots for the same points, the War Walkers are less fragile and can move and shoot. Only they have a shorter range. (the half War Walker is there for comparing points, it should reasonably be two of them in a list)

War Walkers > Dark Reapers

Even bunkers won't save them. With War Walkers you can move around and avoid LOS instad of taking the pounding.
 

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heretical thoughts?
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
im gonna keep reapers, especially since the models are so cool, and I find that the unit can be very versitile... Warwalkers are....interesting, but I don't think I want to use them...

looks like i might be starting later... closer to new dex some time this fall as I have other armies that have priority, but still...


Few questions:
Guardians or Avengers?
Pros of guardians: larger squad, hweavy weapon, warlock

pros of Avengers: better bs and save

cons of avangers: uses troop slot which i dont have enough of, smaller unit size makes me think that w/o a farseer, guardians will be more effective.

Also, singing spears or witch blades? if the model is being paired with 12" guns should i go for the spear to add shots, or keep the witchblade for some counter assault help...I'm really unimpressed by the witchblade in cc, and sma egoes for the spear in cc, but the shooting is good.
 

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Simple Green.
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If you are unimpressed with the witchblade in combat, by all means go with the singing spear then...

P.S.- Viktor...I don't know about what they sell in sweden...but in the U.S. I don't believe they sell 1.5 Warwalkers :alien:....(smell the sarcasm)
 
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