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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have hust started and i put together some ideas for a 2000 point ulthwe army. i wanted your opinions on how it could be changed and maybe made better.

HQ (Points: 365)

1 Avatar. Points: 80

1 Farseer. Points: 198
Equipment: Spirit Stones, Singing Spear,
Psychic Powers: Eldritch Storm, Fortune, Guide, Mind War.

2 Warlock Bodyguards. Points: 87
Equipment: Both have witch blades
Warlock Powers: 1 Warlock with Enhance
1 Warlock with Conceal

(Here i was thinking of taking out the avatar and putting in a seer council)

Elites (Points: 659)


10 howling banshees (1 upgraded to exarch). Points: 201
Exarch Upgardes: Executioner, Warshout.

10 howling banshees (1 upgraded to exarch). Points: 201
Exarch Upgardes: Executioner, Warshout.

10 warp spiders (1 upgraded to exarch). Points: 257
Exarch Upgrades: Additional DeathSpinner, Powerblades, Surprise Attack.

(here i am not sure whether to have 2 squads of howling banshees and 1 sqaud of warp spiders or 2 squads of warp spiders and 1 squad of howling banshees or to go allwarp spiders or all howling banshees)

Troops (Points: 616)


20 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 195
Equipment: 2 upgraded weapons to Fusion Guns.
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Close Combat Weapon.

20 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 195
Equipment: 2 upgraded weapons to Fusion Guns.
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Close Combat Weapon.

20 guardian defender squad (with 1 warlock). Points: 226
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Close Combat Weapon.
Joined by a heavy weapon platform ( Brightlance).

(same as with the elites whether to have 2 defender squads or 2 storm squards or all defender or all storm, all guardians will be black guardinas)


Heavy Support (Points: 360)


1 wraithlord. Points: 120
Weapon: Brightlance.

1 wraithlord. Points: 120
Weapon: Starcannon.

1 wraithlord. Points: 120
Weapon: Starcannon.

(here i was thinking about taking out a wraithlord with a starcannon and putting in a squad of 3 war walkers)

This comes to 2,000 points exactly

Any ideas and help with it would be great.

thanks

Mad_Man
 

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I play Biel-Tan, but i was going to play this one so i could throw in a bit.

1) An avatar? In a pyshic army? Eh ok then. I would get rid of him. Also the Farseer. I have never found a use for Eldritch storm. S 3? Thats basically a joke! I would drop that. You should put in the seer council.

2) On the Banshees...Warshout it ok. But or twenty points all it does is reduce the WS by 1? Too many points. I would drop that one both. We get to strike firstest anyways.

3) The warp Spider Exarch. I would give it Withdraw instead of suprise assualt. They shouldn't get in CC anyway and the withdraw would help them get out.

4) Those are all black gaurdians right?

5) I would put in a falcon instead of the three warwalkers. The cost of three warwalers would come up above one wraithlord anyway.

6) Hope this helpped!:shifty:
 

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This list is not win very many games, Firstly I agree with everything storm said. Also your banshees will do nothing footslogging. also why the hell is your farseer 200 points?!!! and why do models with a 4 + inv. save have a 5+ cover, destructor or emboiden are better. In bassically every game played, the troops will win the game for you. Try and getr atleast 5 units in and make them black. Good luck, you are going to need it.
 

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The list isnt bad in my opinion (I play Lyanden) but in my opinion:

you should also get some scorpions so you can pick between banshees and srorps depending what opponent you play.

Also I would consider droping one elite squad of banshees and get a waveserpent for the other one, you never know when you need some transportation.

I dont hink you need all 10 warp spiders, 6 in my opinion would be more then enough. New guys have a tendency of taking full squads of units which isnt always a good habbit. For example if you have the option of taking 10 units, it doesnt mean you should.

As for wrathlords, whats you stragedy behind em, just sit back and shoot?...Falcon would do a better job in my opinion. Close combat?...With 6" movement it wont get far. I have 3 in my army but I play lyanden so there is a big diffirence, besides wrathlords are pretty expensive money wise. I would remove one if I were you, dont get me wrong they are amazing for nearly every purpose but unless you play on a small battlefield you will not gain every benefit out of em.

This is my opinion so freely make comments
 

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WraithGuardian said:
Also I would consider droping one elite squad of banshees and get a waveserpent for the other one, you never know when you need some transportation.
Yes you do; almost every game. Banshees without transports are only useful against Black Templars or something similar. I think Warp Spiders are better in shooty armies anyway.

Drop all the Banshees IMO.

8 Warp Spiders would be perfect. Don't use an Excarch at all.

And if you want this to be an Ulthwé list, you MUST use a Seer Council. This is what I suggest:

Farseer: Witchblade, Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Ghosthelm, Fortune
Farseer: Witchblade, Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Ghosthelm, Guide, Mind War
3 Warlocks: Pistol, CCW, Augment
Warlock: Pistol, CCW, Embolden
Warlock: Pistol, CCW, Enhance

Cheap and effective for supporting your Guardians, plucking away characters and enhancing your firepower where needed. It will cost as much as your current Farseer and 3 Warlocks... why ever use conceal in a squad with Inv. saves anyway? Do you usually play against Daemonhunters?

For your Warlock powers in the Guardian squads, give them all Conceal. I can't even imagine what kind of dread logic which says that a Guardian defender squad with a heavy weapon platform need 1+ WS and I. :wacko: Give conceal even to the Storm Guardians IMO.

Drop a two Wraithlords and get two Falcons in their place. Star cannon upgrade, Holo-field and Spirit stone.

GENERAL OBSERVATION:
You have a habit of seriously overspend on Wargear, unit sizes and all kinds of stuff in your list. Consider which upgrades are worth the points, or all the upgrades will eat away loads of your points. Just look at the Farseer with 2 Warlocks who's points I could get a whole Seer Council for.

Also with your Guardian squads, same thing there. And your Banshees and your Spiders. I strongly recommend you to read the Eldar Tactica thread stickied almost at the top of the forum.
 

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You dont have a choice... The Seer Council must be in the list no matter what.


Dont use three wraithlords. But maybe two. Viktor says one, but they take so many shots when they are alone. Not saying don't listen to Viktor, but if you take only one... I would take probaly conisder Walkers instead
 

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mist-man said:
Dont use three wraithlords. But maybe two. Viktor says one, but they take so many shots when they are alone. Not saying don't listen to Viktor, but if you take only one... I would take probaly conisder Walkers instead
The theory behind what I said is that making the Wraithlord a less imminate threat will reduce the firepower directed at him. When used only to protect the Guardians a single lord is fine. The Falcons should attract firepower instead, since they are more threatening.

:shifty:
 

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HQ:

Basically what victor said, I'll also take out the avatar, I've found it to be too slow to be of much help, but thats just me. My seer-council would look like vicktors but without the ghosthelm and mind war.

Elites:

Your warpspiders are fine I think but you don;t really need surprise assualt or possibly the powerblades. You would probable deal more damage in shooting than in combat. To pay points to deal with the "just in case" situations will end up eating points.

Your Howling banshees are on foot, you will find them to be a prime target. With the toughness and armour you've got to either play really carefully (as a single round of rapid fire will kill the squad) or invest in a transport. Oh yes warshout isn't needed, eats up points and is rather useless these days.

Troops:

Victor says all I guess :p

More in the general section.

Heavies:


Starting a new army I guess wraithlords look really impressive. They are impressive to a degree but they arn't your solution. You certainly don't need three. Their performance on the feild ends up to be rather ok in shooting and combat but not great. Hidden power fists and heavy weapons will down these rather quick, and because they are relatively slow, there will probably be plenty of opitunities to shoot them.

General Look:

Being 2000pts its nice to add abit extra to each squad but here's what i think to your army. So far it's very combat based. Also as nice as solid block infantry is you have very little which is mobile and for 2000pts your anti-tank is lacking IMO.

Infantry wise I think you have too much. The squads may end up bumping into each other and forces huge sections of troops out of cover which you intend to hide behind. I think you should lower the gaurdians a little and turn them into shooting units. This is my preferance as you have nothing to transport the storm gaurdians quickly, and due to bulky squads may end up being shot as before they reach combat.

I would take out an banshee squad in preferance to some vypers with multishot weaponary. (Low ballistic skill hinders their effectiveness with single shot weapons) then give the remaining banshee squad a wave serpant with twin-linked brightlances (Increased chance of hitting in addition to adding more to your anti tank capablities.) The wave serpant can be gained by removing a squad of gaurdians.

As for the wraithlords I agree with Victor and get some falcons. This is due to me likign the mobility and firepower it adds to the army as well as an upgraded falcon being quite hard to kill.

-too many close combatists and not enough shooting IMO (I like the shooting though when it comes to foot slogging units)
-not really mobile enough to deal with mission objectives (though fleet of foot may give you that extra movement needed)
-Lacking in the anti-tank department i think.
-I think there should be some more supporting units like the warwalker, support weapons, vypers. This would make the list abit more balanced and more fun to play in IMO.
 

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Well I dont know about the "Some falcons" part, but I definitely agree that there should be one, two, well... its kinda expensive, but wouldnt it be nice haveing a falcon and 2 wrathlords with lances or starcannons depending on opponent. I do agree with almost everything Heiromuyo said so:

HQ is nice, except I dont know if you need 2nd farseer

Elites, drop one banshee squad, get waveserpent with lances for the other one, get some scorpions just in case you face IG, nids, orks or other low armored foes. I dont think you need all 10 warpspiders, 6-8 are more then fine

Troops, I have no idea what you strategy is but one thing is for sure, you will have squad bumping into each other A LOT. I would maybe either spread em out a little during deployment or devide them into smaller 10 or 15 man squads. I cant comment on the waveserpent for troops since its kinda expensive for weak storm guardians so I will leave that part out. Weapon platforms are fine I guess.

Heavy support, I think 3 wraithlords is too much, 2 are fine. As for falcon, I would put him in charge of your HQ. I think its a briliant idea putting the whole farseer retinue on a falcon which gives really good protection. Thats my opinion, falcon can transport so why not make it do it?

Everything else looks good, this is my opinion. I play Iyanden and dont play ulthwe that much so I dont know if these tips are 100% perfect
 

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Viktor said:
The theory behind what I said is that making the Wraithlord a less imminate threat will reduce the firepower directed at him. When used only to protect the Guardians a single lord is fine. The Falcons should attract firepower instead, since they are more threatening.

:shifty:


I read Flacon and thought Vyper. Now that I look at it, yes, that would be a good idea
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here is the new and hopefully improved army list. Thanks for all your help and as before any input on how to make it better would be really appreciated.

HQ


Seer Council. Points: 257

Farseer 1: Singing Spear, Shuriken Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Fortune
Farseer 2: Singing Spear, Shuriken Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Guide, Mind War
2 Warlocks: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Augment
Warlock: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Embolden
Warlock: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Enhance

Elites

8 howling banshees. Points: 128

1 Wave Serpent. Points: 125
Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons upgraded to Twin-linked Brightlances.

7 warp spiders (1 upgraded to exarch). Points: 176
Exarch Upgrades: Additional DeathSpinner.


Troops

10 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 134
Equipment: 2 upgraded weapons to Fusion Guns.
Warlock Powers: Conceal.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.

10 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 137
Equipment: 2 upgraded weapons to Fusion Guns.
Warlock Powers: Conceal.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.


10 guardian defender squad (with 1 warlock). Points: 174
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.
Joined by a heavy weapon platform ( Brightlance).

10 guardian defender squad (with 1 warlock). Points: 174
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.
Joined by a heavy weapon platform ( Starcannon).

Fast Attack

2 Vypers Points:115
1 Upgarded with a Brightlance
1 Upgraded with a Scatter Laser

Heavy Support


1 Falcon Points: 195
Weapon: Eldar Missile Launcher
Upgrades: Holo-field, spirt stones

1 Falcon Points: 195
Weapon: Eldar Missile Launcher
Upgrades: Holo-field, spirt stones

1 Falcon Points: 190
Weapon: Starcannon
Upgrades: Holo-field, spirt stones


The points are accurate as far as i know and there is 3 points left.

Thanks,

Mad_Man
 

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mad_man said:
Here is the new and hopefully improved army list. Thanks for all your help and as before any input on how to make it better would be really appreciated.

HQ


Seer Council. Points: 257

Farseer 1: Singing Spear, Shuriken Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Fortune
Farseer 2: Singing Spear, Shuriken Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Guide, Mind War
2 Warlocks: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Augment
Warlock: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Embolden
Warlock: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Enhance
Ok.

Elites

8 howling banshees. Points: 128

1 Wave Serpent. Points: 125
Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons upgraded to Twin-linked Brightlances.

7 warp spiders (1 upgraded to exarch). Points: 176
Exarch Upgrades: Additional DeathSpinner.
[/quote]

Howling banshees really need an exarch with an exocutioner. Also give the Wave Serpent Spirit stones if you can scrounge up the points. The warp spiders do not need an exarch, unless you want to give him hit and run, which is debatable, but with only 7 of them, I wouldn't. Also, never give him an additional death spinner, it does him no good.

Troops

10 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 134
Equipment: 2 upgraded weapons to Fusion Guns.
Warlock Powers: Conceal.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.

10 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 137
Equipment: 2 upgraded weapons to Fusion Guns.
Warlock Powers: Conceal.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.
I don't know if these are meant to be your black guardians or not, but it seems you've got some problems with them. You've upgraded them for ranged, but they only have a 3 BS and a 12 inch range. If you want fusion guns, use dragons. If you want to use storm guardians, combine them into one large unit of 20, drop the fusion guns, and the singing spear. Your anti-tank should be manuverable or long range, not on foot and short range.

10 guardian defender squad (with 1 warlock). Points: 174
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.
Joined by a heavy weapon platform ( Brightlance).

10 guardian defender squad (with 1 warlock). Points: 174
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.
Joined by a heavy weapon platform ( Starcannon).
I'd make the guardian squad w/ the bright lance black guardians. Then either one unit of stormies or the other defenders.

Fast Attack

2 Vypers Points:115
1 Upgarded with a Brightlance
1 Upgraded with a Scatter Laser
These are fine IMO. Alot of people will frown on BS 3 Bright lances though.

Heavy Support


1 Falcon Points: 195
Weapon: Eldar Missile Launcher
Upgrades: Holo-field, spirt stones

1 Falcon Points: 195
Weapon: Eldar Missile Launcher
Upgrades: Holo-field, spirt stones

1 Falcon Points: 190
Weapon: Starcannon
Upgrades: Holo-field, spirt stones
Don't give the Falcons missle launchers, only star cannons. Giving 'em missle launchers negates their ability to move and shoot all weapons.
 

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3 falcons, are you crazy, do you know how expensive and not too usefull that is. Those falcons will take a lot of space on the table and I am not even talking about cost wise. Why not take wrathlords? I have 3 and I love em
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for all your input and as before all help is really appreciated

HQ


Seer Council Points: 257

Farseer 1: Singing Spear, Shuriken Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Fortune
Farseer 2: Singing Spear, Shuriken Pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Guide, Mind War
2 Warlocks: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Augment
Warlock: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Embolden
Warlock: Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Enhance

Elites

10 howling banshees (1 upgraded to exarch). Points: 181
Exarch Upgardes: Executioner.

1 Wave Serpent. Points: 135
Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons upgraded to Twin-linked Brightlances.
Upgraded with Spirit Stones

8 warp spiders (1 upgraded to exarch). Points: 188


Troops


15 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 166
Warlock Powers: Conceal.
Warlock Equipment: Witch Blade.

15 guardian storm squad ( with 1 warlock). Points: 166
Warlock Powers: Conceal.
Warlock Equipment: Witch Blade.


10 guardian defender squad (with 1 warlock). Points: 174
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.
Joined by a heavy weapon platform ( Brightlance).

10 guardian defender squad (with 1 warlock). Points: 174
Warlock Powers: Enhance.
Warlock Equipment: Singing spear.
Joined by a heavy weapon platform ( Starcannon).

Fast Attack


2 Vypers Points: 120
1 Upgarded with a Brightlance
1 Upgraded with a Scatter Laser

Heavy Support



1 Falcon Points: 190
Weapon: Brightlance
Upgrades: Holo-field, spirit stones

1 wraithlord. Points: 120
Weapon: Starcannon.

1 wraithlord. Points: 120
Weapon: Starcannon.

The points are accurate as far as i know and there is 9 points left.

Thanks,

Mad_Man
 

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Good list but the scatter laser on vyper is a waste, its too unpredictable. I would get lance or missile luncher, also for wrathlords I would give the lance as the default weapon and change it later depending on what you are facing. Besides, lance looks cooler
 

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Never put a bright lance on a falcon, it's strength of 8 means you can't fire it and the pulse laser in the same turn. use the star cannon. Also give both warlocks with the storm guardians a pistol as well. I agree 'bout the vyper, but I know alot of people like scatter laser vypers, and I don't figure it's a game breaker.
 

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List is quite good but here's what I think could use work:

-The warlocks in your Storm Gaurdians needs pistols so they get +1 attack for having a close combat weapon and pistol.

-Mindwar IMO isn't very good, it may be handy for killing those special weapons and sergants but not characters.

-I think you should move some of those starcannons and brightlances around. You should really put your single shot weapons on things that have a higer ballistic skill to give them a higher chance of hitting. I think you should make your defender gaurdians the compulsory troops choice and gave them brightlances in addition move whatever remaining brightlances to the wraithlords. The starcannons should go towards the vypers and falcons. The falcon already has an anti-tank weapon so giving it a starcannon would make it useful in dealing with heavy infantry (Total of 6 shots per turn long range with high strength low ap) as well as tanks. At this moment all your brightlances except the twin-linked on the wave serpant (Keep it there thats good) have a 50% chance of hitting, not really good if you need to knock out a tank at a specific turn.

-Scatter laser it good btw, a cheaper option that is able to deal with swarms as well as light vehicals. If you don't have the points spare it's a good weapon to have but if you can upgrade it, I would to a starcannon. But IMO it's nice to venture away from all those starcannon heavy armies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i was thinking of adding some scorpions instead of the howling banshees. what are your views on this.
 
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